burglaries in Forest Hill/East Dulwich areas

[AlexC]

james84 Wrote:

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> Loz,

>

> I think your missing the point, nothing seems

> happening about the 11 plus burglaries that I have

> been told about in the area in the past months

> (and tehy are just teh ones taht have been

> mentioned on here). When the police themselves are

> saying that they are seeing a noticable rise in

> crime in the area then that is good enough for me.

> You shouldnt always believe the stats that some

> people will tell you- they are not alwaya a true

> reflection of the hard facts, these stats

> included.

..then are you implying that there are numerous residential burglaries that don't get reported to the police? Anything that does, I would expect to see on the Met website and although there is definite work that needs doing it does not seem to point to a crime wave.

[DJKillaQueen]

Even according to the data there are at least two residential burglaries a week in ED and three in Forest Hill. And that level hasn't varied much in years apart from a small peak last year, which James has used to claim a drop in crime - when in truth, burglary has been pretty constant for years. And as I pointed out...things that affect the figures when they rise and fall are more to do with the incarceration of know prolific criminals and/or the moving into an area of new ones.

But what good is knowing any of that if when caught, the courts only imprison as a last resort. That's why figures for burglary rarely differ from year to year. There's no effective process to take burglars off our streets for long enough.

[concita]

Anecdotes are facts reported to police, not fairy tales. The road adjiacent to ours, listed in the catchment of another borough, was indicated as the hot spot for burglaries. Yet it is only few steps from our road and the police was aware of this.

We were told that if they did not match the finger prints to anybody on their criminal list, the case would be close. Yet there could be new gangs to the area, under age people or other types of outsiders.

Regarding CCTVs, we were told that they cannot point the immediate street, in the front of the house.

The Horniman area (half way between ED and FH) has only 1 street CCTV, recently placed at the top of the hill. There are none in the park and in the nature reserve (opened all day long, without any control). These are easy areas where burglars get away easily, without anybody knowing.

Few years ago, when there was the crazy man going around attacking people with a hammer, a neighbour was attacked on the way to work/bus stop through the park alleyways, in pure day light.

[james84]

What I am saying is that for the past 6 weeks if you look back on this forum there have been a number of different reported burglaries, I counted 11, which were break ins, not thefts, or any othe rform of crime (tehse are jsut the ones that have been announced on the forum). Also when you talk to the local Police they have said that their has been a sharp rise in this type of crime in the area recently. This is my point about these statistics, they are not always truly representative of the area.

THE POINT OF ALL OF THIS IS THAT THOSE STATISTICS MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO MOST OF US and if the counciller feels that just by showing those means that that is doing his job then it doesnt fill me with a great deal of confidence.

The issue is how can all of this be stopped. Like it or not there is a crime wave occuring in the area, and just because it may cross over into more than one ward so the figures dont look as bad shouldnt fool people.

We are not being offered any solution here, the local council arent saying we will put up CCTV, or we wont increase police presence in the daytime in the areas affected, orsaying that they will carry out more stop and searches. This is the isse

[Salsie]

We recently recieved a letter which I think was from the council/police (I can't quite remember) warning us of the recent spate of burglaries in the area and how to protect our property better and to be more vigilant. So whatever the facts say I have lived here for over 3 years and this is the 1st time i have ever recieved anything like this, or for that matter to hear about so many break-ins on here...

[SeanHitz]

Hello everyone,

I very rarely comment on the notice board, but this instance has led me to. I'm very sympathetic to everyone that gets burgled. Its a horrible crime, and no-one deserves it, but what gets my goat more than anything is people harping on about things getting worse. Yes, you could say that these figures are scotched, but unfortunately, (and I am tarring people with a very big brush here) we're getting more and more scared because of how well informed we are nowadays. Things like this forum didn't exist 10 years ago, so before, none of us would have know about Concita's unfortunate occurance apart from if we knew her. The only way we would've known about it would've been through the papers. Would it have even made the papers? Unlikely...but now, because of our thirst of information and constant need for intellectual stimulation we search for more and more stories, making us more and more aware of whats going on in the local community. Therefore, the only thing we can truly go by is the police figures to give us an accurate reading of where things truly are. I think most people are very quick to report things to police, so I trust that they are accurate. Therefore, I would say ED, Peckham etc is safer than when I first moved here, not worse. I think we should all just calm down a bit. Also, what would you have James do? Go out in a Batman outfit??? Come on people.

P.S. I don't know James, nor feel like I need to support him in anyway, its just the over re-action on this forum that has got me...crime happens in every city across the globe. Its horirble to hear about it, but ED really ain't that bad!

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree James84. If the local councillor won't accept there's a recent increase (which may or may not turn out to be the case when the Sept/ Oct figure are published) then what hope is there for getting anything done. My advice would be to attend your next SNT ward panel meeting because there you can actively shape which types of crime the local police prioritise for the coming months.

Concita, who told you that you can not put a cctv camera watching the street in front of your house? Lot's of people have cameras doing just that. And the law seems to suggest, that in itself, does not contravene the data protection act.

[The Minkey]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

Sod the stats, James Barber - look at what's taking place under your nose.

[concita]

We need to have solutions to this problem from local authorities. The area is divided in two 2-3 boroughs and it is time that they do something about it. Recent burglaries are for gold and silver. Let's stop advertising "gold for cash" on television , newspapers and at stations. let's make pawbrokering laws stronger, so criminals or middle men find difficult to sell stolen goods. Let's control websites, where things taken from people houses can be sold. Let's police responding to alarm calls, instead of ignoring them, unless the burglar is seeing committing the crime. Let's have zero tolerance for these crimes, which sometimes turn in physical assaults and murders. Let's take notice of what goes on in our area.

Mr. JB cannot understand the pain this event causes to a family, unless it will happen to him as it has happened to Dr. Liam Fox, recently robbed at his flat. Only after that, he had a go at the Mayor, Boris Johnson, demanding more police on the street. Before that it was "others problem".

Also be vigilant for your car. We were also told by the community area officer that thieves are syphoning petrol/fuel from cars parked outside people houses during the night.

[concita]

It was the community aid officer, you know one of these people who help the police around, but are not policemen. He came to our house because I express my view to the police and came to ascertain the security of our home

[ianr]

The police figures for ED for June, July, August are 3,5,9. http://maps.met.police.uk/access.php?area=00BEGH&ct=3&sort=area&order=a

That's clearly a short term trend. Whether there was a similar one last year, I've no idea. (Someone _please_ tell me the figures are easily available somewhere, as they ought to be.) Whether the figures for the current year will overall differ from the previous one, I've no idea.

In fact solutions rarely come quickly, cheaply or easily. Why should they? There are a few clever and determined burglars out there, using their intelligence and skill to get the better of householders while generally evading detection. Organise a local watch group if you like. A set of us routinely patrolling the neighbourhoods 24/7 (how many metres of road each, do you think; how many person-hours a day?) should do the trick.

Does anyone have knowledge or experience of any of the entities here? http://www.mpa.gov.uk/partnerships/boroughs/southwark/

[concita]

We were also told of this leaflet. We lived in our home for the last 20 years and have been always safe. Apart few incidents in 2000 and 2001 involving the assalt with the hammer and the plastic bag on the person head and attempt to steal an expensive car, nothing was reported in our immediate vicinities for ages. Yet after my case, many neigbours came out with their recent stories.I have always been vigilant, but was never expecting somethign like this happening with windows and doors with many locks etc..

[AlexC]

concita - how did the burglar evade the movement detectors in your alarm system? That's the bit I don't get in these burglaries, but there is obviously a way of doing it!

[concita]

I don't think you understand the point. The area is not safe and we should always be aware of these events, if we want to win our fight against crime, even if it does not touch us personally. Until it does not happen to you, you cannot understand the anguish people go through. I lived in areas where you could leave your door open without any problems, areas where you had to watch your handbags all the time. Nothing like this ever happened. It is true, crimes happen all over the world, but outside UK they are penalized, not rewarded.

[concita]

they did not evade the movements of the sensors because the alarm went off straight away. They were quite fast to get through upstairs where they know they could find something. The alarm went on for ages.

[candj]

Yes, I too was curious how they evade motion detectors? I assume all alarms have motion detectors inside otherwise what's the point? The poster from the other thread (name escapes me) who had the entire glass panel lifted out of their window also had an alarm which baffled me. Also, alarms that ring back to a 24 hour monitored service centre that can then ring the police or fire department if need be are obviously much better than ones that just make noise if activated.

Sorry cross posted - question answered.

[DJKillaQueen]

It was the community aid officer

So not an expert in DPA law then? Put a camera up on your property and wait for a court to tell you to take it down, as they are the only ones that can, and even then, only if an individual/ organisation brings a case against you (and suceeds) under the Data Protection Act.

[louisiana]

James Barber Wrote:

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> The stats I checked after reading the first post

> of this thread were at:

> Metropolitan Police Crime stats by wards

I'm in College ward. Burglary has fallen slightly, but is still above the average for London.

I had a near-neighbour and friend (across the road, not young) who sold up and left London following a burglary. If people you know on your road, or in neighbouring roads, are being burgled, then it doesn't seem that far away (and I have been burgled in the past). This is in a road where many people are at home all day and are watching what goes on in the street. (The neighbour had popped out for no more than 10 minutes - they were clearly watching the property.)

College ward also has some extremely high figures for fraud and forgery. Three times the London average - and I imagine the London average is not low in national terms. James, do you have any idea what that is about? What specific types of crimes? I know it's not your patch, but any ideas on what people might be up to?

[cate]

concita Wrote:

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> they did not evade the movements of the sensors

> because the alarm went off straight away. They

> were quite fast to get through upstairs where they

> know they could find something. The alarm went on

> for ages.

Was your alarm linked to the police station? Mine is. It was set off by accident one day and they turned up really fast. You have to pay extra per year for that. Otherwise what is the point in an alarm? Perhaps today's burglars wear ear defenders.

[Nero]

James84,

I don't think Councillor James is trying to make political capital out of the subject of burglary in the area. He is quoting statistics, which is what politicans - of every shape, size and colour - do.

Whilst he is in a position of authority, and even power - to an extent - you and everyone else have to recognise that you have a part to play. Are you mindful of your own house's security? Have you done an audit of your immediate environment, ie. your street, your neighbours' houses, so that you are aware or potential weaknesses? Do you complain when the street lights go out or when graffiti and litter and dumped refuse gather near your property? Do you report any suspicious activity to the police when you see it? Do you keep an eye out for your neighbours who might be less well-placed to help themselves when it comes to security?

Rather than bleat about not seeing enough help coming from a local councillor, whose name you would probably not know unless you came on this site, understand that you and me and almost everyone else is able to contribute to our own and others' security, even if it is just in a very small way.

[mlteenie]

I would like to add there have been two recent burglaries in Hillsboro Rd to my knowledge.

One was at 4am and the crims were scared off by my neighbour as they tried to break into another house where the occupants and their kids were asleep. They ran off and were picked up by a car but the police didn't catch them.

[james84]

Yes thanks Nero/ Sean, I dont think anyone has said that they dont have a part to play. If you read the other posts you will see that most of us had alarms or double glazing or know our neighbours, I actually had the cime prevention team around from the police who said that there was nothing else we could really of bee done- if they want to get in they are going to get in was the specific comment.

Unfortunately these things do happen and are occuring more frequently so i feel well within my rights to question the people who are in a position to do something about it on an area basis and who have access to the people who will make the decisions.

And if people didnt "bleat" about it as you so eliquiently put it then other people in the area would not know what to be on the look out for. The poloice are actually encouraging the use of forums like this to make people more aare of whats going on around them. It is a bit of a contradiction that you dont want people writing about this stuff on here because it

I certainly agree that I woulnt of heard of JB if he wasnt on her, but as he is and seems keen to comment on these posts then im sure he wouldnt mind answering questions about what he and the local authorities plan to do about it. The response that the crime figures have been reduced or that we should all go and join our neighbourhood watches doesnt cut it with me.

[Jacbuc]

We were burgled too earlier this year - my partner disturbed the burglar who had broken a back window to get in and our young son saw him climbing over the back fence - It was just dusk and my partner was anxious, given he had our son with him in case there was a second person with him and that someone might still be in the property. We dialed 999 and I explained that we were concerned that someone might still be in the property. We were told to vacate the property until they arrived.....which was five hours later... We are just over the border from southwark in forest hill and so come under lewisham police. A recent conversation with them revealed that they have a no response policy on alarms that are not linked to the police station unless there are visible signs of a break in. I am pleased that statistically the numbers are lowish in terms of burglary but that does help when you are burgled and if they are low why are we getting such a poor response from the police - I thought we all, through our council tax, are paying for the services of the police. In the end we have an alarm fitted with an extra gizmo that rings up to four different telephone numbers if our alarm is set off - so even if we are away our mobile phone will receive a message. It will go through the telephone numbers until it receives an answer. I think the extra gizmo cost around ?150

[cate]

Jacbuc,

If you are away and the number rings your or someone else like a friend then what happens? I presume you have a keyholder to go and check on your house? I do know that if a burglar alarm goes off for over 30 minutes or so then the Environmental Health Dept. can be called and will come out and investigate and if necessary call out someone to turn off the alarm. The owner can then be fined if this happens repeatedly. Same thing with car alarms that don't turn themselves off.

[Jacbuc]

yes, it can call our phone and if we answer but are not local we can call on family to go round. Also, if we dont answer our phones then our family is also on the list of phone numbers that will automatically be called.