Feedback on Kingsdale Foundation School

[loulou9999]

My son is due to start secondary school next year and we're busy attending open days for local schools.

We've been to Kingsdale Foundation School twice - first and second impressions were really good, latest OFSTED report is positive and we've seen lots of good press. But on the downside, I've heard a few people say that behaviour at the school is bad, and that police are frequently called into the area. One person (apparently a teacher) lasted 6 months and said that it was so bad, she simply could not stay.

Can anyone provide any feedback on this school? I'm especially keen to hear from parents of children currently at the school and even local residents. I know there were huge problems several years ago, so is it just a case of the school struggling to lose its old reputation, or have we had the wool pulled over our eyes?

Any feedback welcome as struggling to decide which schools to put at the top of the list (other contender is Harris Academy in Crystal Palace. Good solid reputation, great OFSTED and GCSE results, but open day was poorly organised so little opportunity to get a "feel" for the school).

[EDmummy]

Gosh, certainly haven't heard anything about bad behaviour at the school but only know a few children who go who have said they really like it. This is giong to be our second choice school so am now a little worried.

With regard to Harris Crystal Palace, it is worth have a very good look at their admission criteria. It is very complicated and depending on where you live may not be worth putting top.

Wouldn't it be lovely to have some real choice.

[tiddles]

I have a daughter in year eight - and having nothing but good things to say about it. Extremely happy and no complaints. We too wondered whether they could live up to the 'hard sell' we were all getting, but hats off, they are doing the job. The school seem very ready to communicate with parents and they have always responded quickly to any queries I have had.

Re behaviour, they seem pretty tough as far as I can see. My daughter and her friends (of both sexes) are extremely happy and feel safe.

I think there is more of a choice now - Charter, Kingsdale, Sydenham Girls and Harris Boys (which so far seems good tho early days I know) are all sound choices. Yes we will all hear of some incident or other which doesn't sound quite right but on the whole I think these are all good schools with a chance of getting some decent qualifications.

[nurismum]

like all secondary schools kingsdale has a mix of students but its several years now since there was any seriously

difficult behaviour issues at the school. the school is one of the best performing schools in London and the vast majority of students are well motivated and supported by involved parents. the school has a regular parents forum where any issues can be raised and will be followed up immediately. don't know why the member of staff left after 6 months - its a school where the staff work incredibly hard and some people can't hack it. I worked there for 11 years (just retired) and saw the school go from special measures to serious weaknesses to good and finally OUTSTANDING. it is a triumph and a testament to the dedication of the staff. go back again and again till you are sure its the right place for your child, attend any events at the school and if you do send your children there get involved and support the school.

[westof]

Daughter in Year 7, again nothing but good stuff to report. Perhaps too early for our experience to have much weight, but the settling in is well-handled, teachers by all accounts seem strict but good-natured, older pupils are friendly.

EDmummy (and loulou99) I wouldn't worry about the rumours - they do have basis in fact BUT they relate to a period some years ago when the school was really struggling. From all I can gather, it hasn't been like that for a good few years now.

To reassure you even more, I do have some experience of my daughter attending a failing primary school (happily this school is now also very much improved, but there were a dodgy couple of years) and given the effect on her during those years, there is absolutely no way I would have sent her to a secondary school where I felt this experience would be repeated.

[Ondine]

I have a year 8 too and she's very happy there and has reported no problems. Like the poster above, I have found the school extremely responsive when I have raised anything with them. It's number one on my younger child's list.

As to police being called into the area, it is standard practice these days for all schools to have connections with the local Safer Neighbourhood Team. PCSO's regularly attend many secondary schools at the end of the day to ensure that pupils go home safely. Could that be what's meant?

[Debi]

I have 2 children there - Year 11 and Year 8 - and we are more than happy with every aspect of the school.

[Huggers]

secondary school application time can be a very emotive time. My advice is only listen to opinions about schools from people who's children are there- it's amazing how rumours take on a life of their own on the basis of very little truth.

[BB100]

I have a child at Kingsdale and a child at Harris Crystal Palace.

As you would expect for state schools the behaviour of the children is more or less the same at both, although the behaviour of teaching staff is not. I found Harris staff more professional, highly organised and the quality and pace of teaching is far superior, whereas the pastoral care at Kingsdale is more than outstanding. It is easy to get a bit carried away with the hype of kingsdale but it is just an ordinary state school who are trying their very best to change things, albeit occasionally in a disorganised kind of way. I chose different schools to match my children's personalities - one sensitive and needs lots of nurturing, the other hardworking and serious - I'm sure you can work out which child goes to which.

And by the way don't be put off and assume because it's a lottery and oversubscribed you won't get into either - someone has to and you have just as much chance as anyone else. I've found talking to other parents that with the pan-London scheme most get into where they want...eventually. The beauty of the pan-london scheme is you can put the one you want at the top, not the one you think you're likely to get.

[loulou9999]

Hi there,

Thanks to all who have replied to the post so far. It's been really useful and has put our minds at ease. Also really helpful to get feedback on differences between Harris Crystal Palace and Kingsdale (both of which we liked). We definately want to find the right school to suit ours son's personaily, as it's important that he's happy as well as getting a good education.

We're going to Harris boys open day this weekend. Difficult call to make with this one as its early days for the school but the Head seems to have a good reputation. Harris & Kingsdale still at the top of the list though and within catchment which is a plus.

Thx again and will be looking out for any other feedback.

[BB100]

I have a few friends with children at Harris boys. The quality of education seems to be on a par with Crystal palace, if not even better as they have more to prove. However you may want to check whether the harsh discipline regime will suit your child as they are very strict.

[village people]

I have a daughter in year 9 at Kingsdale who is extremely happy there and I have nothing but praise for the school and staff. She has made wonderful academic and personal achievements since starting there and feels safe and looked after. Communication is good and the school actively encourages parental involvement which is unheard of in the majority of secondary schools.

Four years ago the rumours were rife and Kingsdale wasn?t even a consideration for us but I was very fortunate to be encouraged by another parent to come and see for myself. I'm forever grateful to her as she opened my eyes to what a wonderful school Kingsdale is and it ended up being our first choice. As parents, we have now in our 3rd year of being proved that we were right to go with our gut instinct and not be put off by gossip.

I?m surprised that there are still people out there that choose to still hang on the ?old reputation?. You need to ask them if they have ever actually been to the school or have any personal experience (not friend of a friend) to substantiate their comments. Surely the parents who post on this forum and have children at Kingsdale are in a better position to give you the feedback you need.

Wishing all parents with the difficult choice ahead of them the very best.

[EDmummy]

Do you have to put Kingsdale as your No. 1 school or is it OK to put it No. 2?

[eliza]

My daughter is in year 7 and is fantastically happy. I've been bowled over by the quality of the teaching and the pastoral care. All her classes are small - the great advantage of Kingsdale over nearly all state schools in the inner city - and children are very well behaved. She says there hasn't been any disruption in any of her classes. I was encouraged to enter my daughter for grammar school a couple of years ago but wasn't keen to send her out of the area. I did, however, worry that I'd made the wrong choice and she simply would not get as good an education at any non selective state school as she would at a grammar. I can now say that I wouldn't send her anywhere apart from Kingsdale. I was educated at a mix of grammar and independent schools and was, in short, educated within an inch of my life! I've therefore experienced the kind of elite education that very few of our children will ever experience. As far as I'm concerned Kingsdale combines the very best of both a grammar and an independent school without the feeling that your children are inhabiting a tiny, social bubble. The fact that there are more girls than boys in year 7 speaks volumes. You'd be hard pressed to find a mixed state school in the area that isn't boy dominated but Kingsdale attracts more and more girls year on year. I also have a son and would not be happy to send him to Harris. It has a boot camp aspect that I find really unattractive. An earlier post suggested that Kingsdale could be a bit disorganised and the teaching at Harris was possibly better. This is not my experience or that of any other Kingsdale parents I've spoken to including one who took her son out of Harris because of the militaristic atmosphere. I've found Kingsdale staff to be consistently professional and well organised and any queries I had in the first few weeks were answered fully and promptly in a way I never experienced at my daughter's state primary.

I've also been very impressed by the detail and thought which goes into the marking of homework and the fact that work is set according to ability levels. The children are placed in sets from the outset but are carefully monitored to ensure that they are in the right sets so you don't feel your child might get labelled or 'stuck'. She has friends attending Lewisham schools at which there's too much of a tendency for all the kids to be given the same work, regardless of ability, which may be easier for the teachers but is stressful for children who struggle and boring for the brightest ones.(See Sydenham's last Ofsted for comments on this problem).

[loulou9999]

Thanks again to all those who have replied to my post (more recently Eliza & Village People)- your comments have all been really useful and pretty much support our gut feel regarding Kingsdale. Everything we have seen and heard about the school has been really positive and we just get a good feel about this school. The fact that they actively encourage parent involvement is anothert plus as it makes such a difference.

Harris Crystal Palace is still up there on our list, but again, I agree with much of the feedback provided. It's obviously an excellent school but did come across as being very "no nonsence" and perhaps not as personalised as Kingsdale. Again, just going on gut feel here.

Either way, I'm happy that we at least have 2 really good schools to put to the top of the list.

[BB100]

eliza Wrote:

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> year. I also have a son and would not be happy to

> send him to Harris. It has a boot camp aspect that

> I find really unattractive. An earlier post

> suggested that Kingsdale could be a bit

> disorganised and the teaching at Harris was

> possibly better.

Are you talking about Harris Boys Eliza because yes I agree it could be called a boot camp? However, Harris Crystal Palace is a very different school with a much more relaxed and informal atmosphere. Unless you have had children at both I don't see how you can compare.

I am glad, however, you are delighted with your daughters first few weeks at Kingsdale, it is a very good school.

[MGolden]

My son is in Y7 at Kingsdale. I had been ambivalent when my partner suggested looking at Kingsdale when our son was in Y5. When it came to selecting schools we were the only family from our sons primary school who put Kingsdale down, lots of people expected us to down the grammar route. We have been delighted with his start there. He is a sports scholar and enjoys the kudos that brings. I have found the teachers unfailingly professional and helpful and it is clear from my sons conversations with me at the end of the day (he's not a teenager yet so I get to hear how school was on a daily basis!) that his teachers often share his rather sarcastic sense of humour. Whilst I appreciate it is early days yet we feel confident we made the right decision in sending our son here. Interestingly, lots of parents from his primary school with children currently in Y6 are putting Kingsdale as first or second choice!

[brockleymum]

My son's also in year 7 at Kingsdale. Coming from a lovely one-form entry primary school we were wondering how he'd find it. But, it's all been great so far. He's taught in small groups, seems to have appropriate homework, is very keen to learn, tells me that the behaviour is good.....all positive. My husband and I are both trained teachers and have been really impressed at what we've seen. It's true the year six open days are a really 'hard sell', but the Head seems to have delivered on his promises of small teaching groups. I had to pop into the school recently and was there for 'lesson changeover' and was really impressed at how calmly the children move around the school.

[eliza]

Very sorry, must clarify earlier post - i was talking about Harris Boys in Peckham not the Crystal Palace one about which I've heard much better things. I did visit Harris Boys with a friend with a year 6 son and we both found it very heavily orientated towards discipline. I don't think this would suit a boy who is basically well behaved. They seem to start from the premiss that boys in the area are all incipient members of gangs! I found it really over the top. I do also have a preference for mixed education for boys which is one of the reasons I was so delighted to get my daughter into Kingsdale as she has a younger brother.

[EDmummy]

@Eliza, I think the comparison we were looking for was with Harris Dulwich, not Peckham, and Kingsdale and Harris Crystal Palace. There are so many of them now, it can get confusing.

[intexasatthe moment]

Harris Peckham ( The Academy @ Peckham ) is mixed ,I think the only Harris Boys is the new East Dulwich one facing Peckham Rye .

[Msgee]

I've got a child at Kingsdale in Y9. No complaints here at all- though I don't know what will happen with the change to Academy status...

just a little aside- I understand that the school is changing very quickly and that a lot of people who wouldn't have touched it with a ten foot pole a couple of years ago are now battering down the doors! It always seemed to me to be a very inclusive school and you got a real sense of "every child matters" there- now I've heard from open day visitors (ie 'new' people- not old 'uns grumbling ;-)) that they're shamelessly courting the middle classes- and I think I read something similar on here last year.

Is this true? or an unfair judgement?

I really hope it's not true. One of the great things about Kingsdale is its inclusivity imo

[eliza]

I really don't accept that there's any problem with Kingsdale wanting (and getting) more middle class and aspirational parents (not all of whom are middle class) to send their children to the school. This is a school which used to have an intake comprised of the most economically disadvantaged children. There were hardly any girls at all, in common with many failing co-educational schools.(There are now slightly more girls than boys in year 7). It was hardly an 'inclusive' school. A comprehensive is supposed to be socially mixed, after all, and sink schools are always the ones which have been shunned by middle class parents. As to whether or not Kingsdale is 'Shamelessly courting the middle classes'...Hmm. That's a contentious way to put it. They're attracting middle class parents because of their remarkable facilities, small class sizes,musical and sporting opportunities, fantastic Head teacher, committed teachers and great pastoral care. The year on year improvements in exam results will only be maintained by the school continuing to ensure a solid presence of middle class children. I look at alleged community schools in Lewisham (my borough) which, in theory, have a comprehensive intake but, in fact, have a tiny minority of middle class children regardless of the fact that they're in very mixed areas.

[Msgee]

hmm. Maybe I mean that it was inclusive to anyone who wanted to go there!

at least the lottery means everyone gets a fair crack at it I spose...

as I say this was the opinion of people who don't have much in the way of prior knowledge of the school. I'm not all that comfortable with the idea of people leaving there with that impression!

[MGolden]

Msgee Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've got a child at Kingsdale in Y9. No complaints

> here at all- though I don't know what will happen

> with the change to Academy status...

>

> just a little aside- I understand that the school

> is changing very quickly and that a lot of people

> who wouldn't have touched it with a ten foot pole

> a couple of years ago are now battering down the

> doors! It always seemed to me to be a very

> inclusive school and you got a real sense of

> "every child matters" there- now I've heard from

> open day visitors (ie 'new' people- not old 'uns

> grumbling ;-)) that they're shamelessly courting

> the middle classes- and I think I read something

> similar on here last year.

>

> Is this true? or an unfair judgement?

>

> I really hope it's not true. One of the great

> things about Kingsdale is its inclusivity imo

My partner and I are people who three years ago wouldn't have touched Kingsdale with anyone elses ten foot barge pole let alone our own! As I said in my earlier post my partner looked around Kingsdale when our (now Y7) son was in Y5. He was bowled over and when I, reluctantly, went to look around in Y6 so was I. The small class sizes and sports facilities won me over. Moreover, since he has started there I have been struck by how racially and socially diverse the school is, exactly like London! His group of friends is diverse and reflects the society we are bringing him up in. As I said before it's early days yet but so far so good.