Trying to ensure a better birth experience...what to do?

[sillywoman]

Also, I heard on the grapevine that Tommies are trialling a system whereby if you've had a straightforward labour & birth with no probs, when you go home they won't send a MW out to visit you & baby at all. So, if you're lucky with the birth & get the HFH unit, then it's all good - but once you leave you're on your own. Has anyone else heard of this? Can it be right? Tommies have always been shorter on visiting community MW's than Kings & their Mums generally get less visits, but surely this would be too risky?

Anecdotally, there's two pins to chose between Tommies & Kings PN wards, though I think countjc is right in as far as you can still buy a private room postnatally - something you can't do at Kings.

[Kes]

Countjc,

I had my daughter at St T's (before we moved here) so my posts here and on the blog are about that. I would imagine you can opt for that from here as I was offered Kings as an alternative. The first 19 hours or so I was in the home from home midwife led unit and would rate it very highly, had a lovely big room looking out over the river and used a birthing pool room for many hours, floating about with a rubber duck. There are sofa beds in the room so your partner can stay too and you can then just go straight home. The only problem is that they only deal with normal straighforward births there and of course you can never garuntee that that's what you'll end up with, so despite starting out there I ened up transfering to the medical unit and onto the postnatal ward I'd been trying to dodge.

I'm also seriously considering trying to find the money for some kind of private postnatal care next time round. There is a private bit at St T's and I seem to have it in my head it's over ?600 a night. yikes. I'd also consider just discharging myself if the baby was well (thankfully my daughter was fine) I really don't think anything was done for me in the hospital that couldn't have been done, minus the insults, at home.

K

K

[Lochie]

There is a private room at Kings - I didn't give birth at Kings but my friend did and I think she paid for a room for 2 nights following her section (it was something like ?800 per night). She also had a private post natal midwife - and in all she had a very good experience. Her private midwife said the room was actually better at Kings than you'd get at some of the rooms at the Portland. I visited her and it was a nice room but no natural day light.

However when she tried to liaise with the NHS midwives at Kings over various issues with her surgeon prior to giving birth, a good few of the midwives didn't even know the room existed!! Not sure how you get your hands on the room but I know that it is never 100% certain you will get it on the day, as precidence goes to woman with urgent needs who require privacy (e.g. if having delivered a very poorly baby)

Kes - your blog post is spot on. I had awful post natal care at a hospital in Sussex so I do think the problem does not effect just inner city areas but perhaps the whole of the UK, which is such a shame. It is a massive problem.

One other place to look at is St Marys, a friend of mine had amazing care there, and from her photos her room looked like a hotel room (I think its a brand new birthing unit)...

[sillywoman]

Hmmmm Interesting, though when the healthcare Commission asked "Overall, thinking about the postnatal care you received in hospital after the birth of your baby, were you treated with respect and dignity?" 86.6% of St Mary's Mums said 'Yes, Always' or 'Yes, sometimes' compared with 96.4% of Kings Mums & 91.5% of Tommies Mums - maybe better off south of the river after all?

[alieh]

Is it possible that there are just one or two duds on the post-natal ward at Kings, that can explain all of our bad experiences??

Personally, I had one night that was terrible, hideous, could not believe the insults and manner of the midwife/nurse that was "helping" us and one night that was much better, with an absolute angel of a woman who was so gentle and kind and helping everyone to breastfeed, etc. (I honestly wanted to just hug this woman and cry on her shoulder/take her home with me). All of the annoyances I expected with a hospital ward were there both nights (hot, uncomfortable, babies crying, etc.) but I could easily cope with all of that when the care was supportive.

Mind you, my buzzer was broken both nights (not ideal when you've had a section and can't lift baby when he is crying and can't get anyone to come to help you!) and the policy about kicking partners out at 10 pm is really stressful for all parties...but other than that, it was just the one (or maybe two) terrible, shocking midwives/nurses that ruined the whole thing for me. When I think about the way that this one woman spoke to me and to the woman in the bed beside me, I still well up almost 2 years later.

[Kes]

Out of interest how many of you who had bad experiences with the attitudes of postnatal midwives wrote to the hospital concerned to make a complaint afterwards? Did you get a response? I'll be honest and say that I didn't as I found writing the letter too upsetting and now I'd probably manage it but it feels like I've left it too late.

Just wondering if it would do any good if they suddenly got a load of letters specifially on the issue of staff behaviour?

K

[Belle]

I wrote a letter - it was cathartic, but took me 7/8 months I think to work up to it! I got a very good response - an unreserved apology and each point addressed. They'd taken real care to speak to everyone involved with looking after me. They said lots had been done to improve their service since. Must say the letters made me feel a lot better! I did also encounter a couple of lovely midwives obviously, and I did point that out in my letter - don't want to seem totally one sided here!

[Moos]

I hadn't realised until the last set of posts that the issues faced by people on the postnatal ward were because how they were treated by the midwives.

My experience was a while ago now (3 1/2 years) but just to reinforce what others have said, I found the postnatal staff really nice and helpful, including coming to help with feeding problems in the middle of the night. They were clearly stretched and very busy, but very professional.

[alieh]

I didn't complain. I wish I had. I could still describe the women to a tee - both the traumatic one and the wonderful one! But it seems far too late.

[Saila]

sillywoman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hmmmm Interesting, though when the healthcare

> Commission asked "Overall, thinking about the

> postnatal care you received in hospital after the

> birth of your baby, were you treated with respect

> and dignity?" 86.6% of St Mary's Mums said 'Yes,

> Always' or 'Yes, sometimes' compared with 96.4% of

> Kings Mums & 91.5% of Tommies Mums - maybe better

> off south of the river after all?

This is really strange. My sister *just* had her baby at st mary's (she picked it cos she knew they had the 'best after care and facilities') she works at the royal free and was given this tip by other staff at the roayl free.

My mum visited me daily at kings last xmas and was 'depressed' by my care. The first thing both of them said after my siste's time at mary's was to 'get a place at marys next time' they were both highly impressed w marys.

[sillywoman]

Not strange at all Saila, your sister was just one of the 86.6% of happy Mums. A goodly proportion really. I would just challenge the absolute of 'she picked it cos she knew they had the 'best after care and facilities' - as it would seem from this detailed study that they don't.

[Saila]

My bad - SW u'd answered that already

When was the study done? Can we see the results? I wanna know I'm making right decision

[sillywoman]

Hi Saila, didn't quite understand the first bit of your last post but re the study - Sure. It was the Healthcare Commission report. It was done in 2007(?) I think and was done on every single hospital in the UK - a kind of 'state of the nation' on maternity services. It's available on www.birthchoice.co.uk along with more basic, but up to date stats from 2009. It makes fascinating reading. Some of it rates the services & some of it is the service users opinions.

Re; the 'right' decision - it depends on what's important to you. Essentially the PN care in any of the big London hospitals is much the same - it depends on who you get on shift while you're there. If I were deciding where to have a baby now I'd be more inclined to look at current rates of CS, Induction, Forceps & Ventouse, plus how long it would take me to get to hospital as well as comparatively how happy other women with their PN care. Actually, if I were doing it again, I'd book a homebirth - PN care second to none ;-)!

[candj]

When you talk about St. Mary's are you talking about the Lindo Wing? Or the regular NHS part of the hospital? Just out of interest.

[sillywoman]

As the Lindo wing is private, I don't imagine that this would be covered in the Healthcare Commission report, but I don't know. It's not mentioned anywhere that I can see.

[Smiler]

Snowboarder, I had many of the same worries but have some words of hope!

I'd been aiming for a VBAC: it didn't work out, but was OK anyway. After my waters broke at 36 1/2 weeks but nothing else happened for several days, had an induction on the delivery ward at St Helier Hospital in Sutton (we moved out of Dulwich just before the birth) with continuous monitoring, ending in a second unplanned C-section.

Continuous monitoring (which I'd not liked the idea of) was actually OK: had those sensor things, but was able to move around, use the birthing ball, different positions, take breaks from the monitors etc.

One thing that really helped after the birth was arranging for my brother-in-law to stay and look after our 2 year-old daughter, which meant Mr Smiler could be at the hospital. He'd never babysat for her before and only sees us every few months, and we'd been worried that it'd be asking too much of him (time off work, dirty nappies etc.) or that our daughter would get upset. We nearly didn't ask him, but in the event he was more than willing to help and she was v.happy being spoiled rotten.

We had a good experience at St Helier. They have recently invested lots of money in their maternity service and have a new midwife-led unit with nice rooms with low lighting, pools etc. It's right next to the consultant-led delivery ward in case women need to transfer. They also have private "amenity" rooms for ?125 a night (the privacy was bliss).

I'd recommend a book called "Blooming Birth" which includes a big section on second births of all kinds. Also good advice on managing anxieties / taking decisions before and during the birth.

[Saila]

OK - i've just called my sister to ask her to expand a bit on which ward and why she thought it was better than kings

She was on the Alec Bourne ward

She felt that the midwives genuinely cared. They were articulate and intelligent and the continuity of care was 'second to none'

Some of the little touches she liked e.g. the alcoholic loo seat wipes (There was no soap in my communal toilet for 3 days when i stayed at Kings and when i explained this to a midwife her response was ?Well it?s not my job to do that?)

However, she said the hospital itself was old and crumbly and the food was terrible

She thinks that St Mary's has a higher C-section rate which initially she disliked, assuming woman were being forced into intervention etc. But after talking to other mums and going back she believes actually it's because that's what the woman were choosing and the hospital were just responding to their requests more readily than at other hospitals...

All very anecdotal this but i'm sure everyone realises this is just one account of someone who spent every day with me at Kings and then had a baby at St Mary's shortly afterwards

She went onto say that if people want to find out about hospitals there?s a website called www.patientopinion.org.uk which may be useful if youre considering a different hospital

[Vickster]

I spoke to my midwife (Oakwood) at length yesterday about my post-natal care concerns at Kings, as issues with the simplest post-natal care last time have left me terrrified about how I would be looked after when required to stay in for a medical reason. My experiences were over 2 1/2 years ago now, and apparently things have much improved. Obviously noise, visitor traffic and heat will always be an issue, but in terms of the care that is being received, I understand that a new ward manager has dramatically turned things around and much more focus is being given to e.g. breat feeding support. Historically a lot of agency staff were used on this ward, particularly at night, which seems to account for the general lack of care and compassion and desire to do a good job (hope I am not doing down agency staff there, but that was her view and it seems to make sense).

So fingers crossed everyone's experiences should be better next time around if you do require a stint on the post-natal ward.

[ClareC]

Vickster Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I spoke to my midwife (Oakwood) at length

> yesterday about my post-natal care concerns at

> Kings, as issues with the simplest post-natal care

> last time have left me terrrified about how I

> would be looked after when required to stay in for

> a medical reason. My experiences were over 2 1/2

> years ago now, and apparently things have much

> improved. Obviously noise, visitor traffic and

> heat will always be an issue, but in terms of the

> care that is being received, I understand that a

> new ward manager has dramatically turned things

> around and much more focus is being given to e.g.

> breat feeding support. Historically a lot of

> agency staff were used on this ward, particularly

> at night, which seems to account for the general

> lack of care and compassion and desire to do a

> good job (hope I am not doing down agency staff

> there, but that was her view and it seems to make

> sense).

>

> So fingers crossed everyone's experiences should

> be better next time around if you do require a

> stint on the post-natal ward.

Did she say when the ward manager changed?

[Vickster]

No, I should have asked but will find out next time I see her.

[alieh]

That sounds really encouraging, Vickster. I'm going to choose to believe it and live in happy hope! I also hope that the second time around I won't be so weedy and affected by people being cruel to me on the wards, and will stand up for myself better. Though sleep deprivation, drugs, and feeling generally fragile can always reduce me to tears pretty easily.

[Saila]

alieh Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That sounds really encouraging, Vickster. I'm

> going to choose to believe it and live in happy

> hope! I also hope that the second time around I

> won't be so weedy and affected by people being

> cruel to me on the wards, and will stand up for

> myself better. Though sleep deprivation, drugs,

> and feeling generally fragile can always reduce me

> to tears pretty easily.

Next time will be so much easier. You'll be totally ready. No shock or fear. You'll be fine and even if they're mean to u

You'll be able to shake it off just cos you know it'll end soon enough and you'll rise above it.

You'll be fine

X

[fearnpw1]

I too had a difficult first labour and had to spend a week on the post labour ward at Kings and my memories of it are not good. I'm now 36 weeks pregnant with my second and share your anxieties snowboarder. However, I have just spent several days on the post labour ward in Kings suffering from kidney infection/stones. It was as busy as I remember 4 years ago but it was much quieter and I overheard women who had just had their babies getting one to one help with breastfeeding. Every mother seemed to be offered it. The food was marginally better. And I would say that I felt I had more attention from the midwives than I did last time round - that isn't to say they weren't completely rushed off their feet, but it didn't seem quite so bad. The hospital also seemed cleaner.

Good luck with everything.