Help. Nightmare neighbours. How do we deal with conflict?

[Hickory]

I?m being kept awake at night with an issue with our neighbours. Can my friendly neighbours of SE22 please help in dispute resolution?

We recently moved into a house near Lordship Lane. The garden fence which belongs to us (on the deeds) was broken and splintered quite badly, so not very safe for our little one.

We had the chance to replace it quite quickly with a sturdy, cedar slatted design. It was of course, our cost to bear. Our mistake, but we only gave our adjoining neighbour a day?s notice that there would be a change. Since then they?re really making life hell for the 3 of us. She seemed like a nice lady but maybe we were wrong.

They?re complaining every day that they don?t like the design. They don?t think it?s private (even though it?s the same height) They have no other rationale.

Now we are receiving twice-weekly visits from a spluttering, angry, swearing neighbours. There?s also angry and threatening emails at night. We?re being stared at through the window as we take our daughter to nursery. Their music is suddenly being played loudly at 11pm. I don?t want to have a bad relationship that sours and sours.

Yes, it wasn?t ideal we didn?t inform them. But we?ve said sorry many times, and hoped to move on. I?m starting to feel harassed by their constant anger towards us.

We're not sure what technique to use going forward.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Don't apologise any more. This is not reasonable behaviour on their part. The relationship is not balanced. They are threatening, you are being defensive. Are they owners or tenants?

You could ascertain what they feel so offended about. Then see if you can find a remedy.

If it's only due to being annoyed you didn't ask their permission, they would be largely over-reacting.

Are you sure it's not something else? You really need to find out what the problem is.

What happens on the twice-weekly visits? What are the emails? If they're threatening, I would be concerned.

Depending on the aggression it might be a police matter. If something escalates they would be better to have been informed.

[uncleglen]

Report the harassment straight away- if you had not replaced the fence and one of them had got injured- what then? They are obviously stupid and the more you apologise (for nothing it seems) they will take advantage....

[Sue]

Southwark used to have some kind of neighbour mediation service, but it depends on both sides being willing to use it.

I can see why your neighbours would be upset at not being consulted initially, as although you paid for the fence it obviously directly affects them as it adjoins their garden too.

I had to alter plans for a fence height because neighbours objected (though most annoyingly, they moved shortly afterwards!)

However your neighbours now seem to be behaving most unreasonably, and it must be awful for you.

Southwark Noise Control could help if the music is disturbingly loud. Keep a diary of when it happens and for how long, which will help if the situation continues.

But I would check out mediation. I think it is free.

ETA: And I agree that in case the situation escalates, which let us hope it won't, it would be a good idea to tell the police.

Who may also be able to advise you how to take things forward now.

Good luck.

Edited again to say, you could cover the slatted fence quite quickly with something like ivy or clematis Montana or honeysuckle or jasmine, which would give them the privacy they want (I imagine it is being able to see between the slats they don't like?)

Alternatively, with something like a woven willow screen.

And, if they are tenants, approach their landlord.

And as with the noise, keep a detailed diary of every episode and every interaction with them. Date, time, what was said, what happened.

[Saffron]

The fence is yours, within your property boundary? How much notice, if any, are you legally required to give if the new fence is not significantly dissimilar to the old one, and you covered the whole cost?

Certainly if they want the fence changed, there should be means for navigating this without harassing you. However, I'm not sure they have much legal standing in getting you to change a fence on your own property, so long as it's a reasonable design to replace the old one?

Having lived as a tenant in a property where the owner had a fence dispute with neighbours, the fence owner came out ahead of the non-owner, even though the new fence actually was different compared to the old one!

xx

[Earl Aelfheah]

I would suggest establishing exactly what the problem is. If it is simply that you didn't consult them, then tough. You've apologised, there is nothing else you can do. If it's specifically the privacy issue, you may want to consider doing something about this. When you say "cedar slatted design" do you mean the thin horizontal, slightly spaced type? If so, it is true that they afford less privacy. Perhaps you should offer put up something on their side to obscure the gaps?

I do think you neighbours are being completely unreasonable and the aggression is totally unacceptable. I would establish what their issue is, do what you reasonably can to rectify it and then be very, very clear, that their behaviour needs to be moderated. If it continues, report them to the council's anti-social behaviour unit, or get the police involved.

Good luck, it sounds like a horrible situation to find yourself in and I hope you can resolve it soon.

[Hickory]

Thanks for the sound advice. The privacy issue can indeed be smoothed over by us growing climbers or adding gauze, which we said we'd do. Weirdly, this chap stands in his living room half naked with the lights on, so that's when the privacy point seems a little hypocritical. He's also very anti-gentrification so he might perceive that we're not the type of neighbour he was after. Maybe.

I don't think they have a legal case for changing the fence. It is definitely ours, and the previous incarnation was less of a fence and more of a series of old wood and loose posts left behind. We thought we were doing a good thing.

Jules, the twice weekly visits are just a froth of anger..repeating the same old thing about not liking it, not liking us or any of our gardeners (due to them not being British, grr). At some point, I think we have to stop engaging with them. I just never wanted to be one of those families who doesn't get on with their neighbours :(

[Earl Aelfheah]

Your neighbour sounds thoroughly unpleasant. I think you may have to just stop engaging with them as you say. It's a shame, I really feel for you. We had some problem neighbours in a previous place and it was extremely stressful. Good luck.

[Huggers]

re height, put up a trellis.

[JohnL]

Hickory Wrote:

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> Jules, the twice weekly visits are just a froth of

> anger..repeating the same old thing about not

> liking it, not liking us or any of our gardeners

> (due to them not being British, grr). At some

> point, I think we have to stop engaging with them.

> I just never wanted to be one of those families

> who doesn't get on with their neighbours :(

They want to take back control over the fence.

Sounds almost mini Brexit.

[rendelharris]

Hickory Wrote:

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> I just never wanted to be one of those families

> who doesn't get on with their neighbours :(

You're not, they are, by the sound of it!

[Seabag]

I wonder if the last people that had your place had issues with them, or the surrounding neighbour's

They may have a history of twattery.

And can you see throug the new panel, Cedar or not?

Good luck

[red devil]

Hickory Wrote:

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> Weirdly, this chap stands in his living room half naked with the

> lights on, so that's when the privacy point seems

> a little hypocritical. He's also very

> anti-gentrification so he might perceive that

> we're not the type of neighbour he was after.

Does his wife sunbathe in the garden with a half-empty bottle of Lambrusco to hand, nibbling on some supermarket bought cheese, and frantically finger-jabbing her tablet* perchance?...

*No, that's not a euphemism

[Mick Mac]

We had the chance to replace it quite quickly with a sturdy, cedar slatted design. It was of course, our cost to bear. Our mistake, but we only gave our adjoining neighbour a day?s notice that there would be a change. Since then they?re really making life hell for the 3 of us.

When given 24 hours notice, (was this verbal?) and how did they react at that point?

[Seabag]

How old are the neighbour's btw?

[Hickory]

You can see through the slats if you put your face up close and really look through. By Summer, honeysuckle should have covered it.

Or, you can go to the front of the house from the street, and see into their living room and even what they're watching on TV since they have no blinds. The neighbours are aged about 50, not that that should matter.

[rendelharris]

I believe I'm right in saying that there's actually no general legal obligation to place a fence along your boundary unless there are specific circumstances which require it - abutting a railway line, keeping livestock in etc. So in that case your neighbour should be grateful there's any fence at all!

Can some clever person confirm if that's right? It may fall into the "things a bloke in a pub told me once" category but sure I've heard it several times...

[red devil]

Hickory Wrote:

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> By Summer, honeysuckle should have covered it.

That sounds optimistic. How much did you replace, just a panel or two, or the whole fence?...

[Sue]

Some honeysuckles grow very fast, eg Lonicera japonica Halliana, which is semi-evergreen.

In any case you could plant more than one plant.

But it is very easy to propagate, so you could start with one plant and soon have more than enough to cover the fence.

[bodsier]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I believe I'm right in saying that there's

> actually no general legal obligation to place a

> fence along your boundary unless there are

> specific circumstances which require it - abutting

> a railway line, keeping livestock in etc. So in

> that case your neighbour should be grateful

> there's any fence at all!

>

> Can some clever person confirm if that's right?

> It may fall into the "things a bloke in a pub told

> me once" category but sure I've heard it several

> times...

Yes you are right there is no legal obligation, but what would be the point here, the op has a child, and seemingly awful neighbours. Who wouldn't want a fence there? I feel for you, i have experienced a similar situation whereby a hedge which was our responsibility was removed by our neighbours. We used southwark mediation in the end I can't remember his name bus he had been a editor for 30 years, and our case was tough,but he sorted things. I would agree that rebalancing the dynamics is a very good idea. Although our neighbours caused the problem, we said nothing for a while just to preserve some sort of neighbourly relationship. They took advantage of us from then on in, we had given them the power to do so. Of course you ought to have given them notice, I think I read at least 7 days is the general/(perhaps legal) requirement, but only if you have to enter their garden to erect it I believe. The thing to do is to show them and discuss what you have in mind and then they have to opportunity to object. So I can see why they may have been angry. But that doesn't excuse their behaviour towards you. What's important is that you have tried to respond to their issues about it in a civil,reasonable way. Any neighbour interested in preserving a decent relationship would respect that. So, I agree, stop apologising. Sounds like you have tried to appease their concerns, so contact a mediator who can put aside the emotion behind their actions and deal with the real issues so that you can all move on. Also diarise every single incident of harassment. If it gets worse, you have all the information you need to take it further. Personally I would avoid reporting them at this point, unless you feel threatened or your children are scared. the mediator will work on your case immediately, so you may not have to. Sometimes going for the jugular can add fuel and make your situation worse. They will know you mean business by appointing a mediator in em first place, but if they refuse to engage with your or the mediator, then make a complaint, as the bullying won't stop until you act in it.

I hope that helps, good luck.

[rendelharris]

I wasn't suggesting that the OP wouldn't want a fence, just suggesting that it could be pointed out to the neighbours that s/he has no obligation to provide one so they should be glad s/he's put anything up there. Not that it sounds as though s/he'd get a reasonable response to that, or indeed anything else...

[Happy Cyclist]

No one should come to your front door and be swearing at you, especially over a fence! I really hope you sort the situation out.

To put it in to some context, our neighbours just replaced our adjoining fence. They didn't talk to us about it beforehand. The first we knew about it was noisey workmen in our garden (without permission) for two days erecting it. It's a totally different fence with metal posts and horizontal wooden slates with big gaps between. What did we do, nothing, we just let them get on with it. Ultimately it's just a fence and better than the rotting one already there.

Sounds like there may be more issues here than the fence and others recommendation of a mediator sounds like a good one.

[KidKruger]

Get a quote from a mediator and forward it to the neighbours inviting them to contribute 50% as they are the comms weakness after all.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The horizontal 'gappy' fencing is very de rigueur isn't it.

[Happy Cyclist]

Yes they seem to be, just look like handy ladders for burgalars to get from garden to garden to me! 😂