Harris East Dulwich Boys' school

[first mate]

Narnia,

I agree, that is why I prefaced my comments with a "does make it look". I may be on completely the wrong track but, to me, it feels as though a plan is afoot to get use of the Rye one way or another.

It does occur to me that in these cash strapped times the council might prefer to offload the upkeep of sections of the park, such an arrangement with Harris might be useful for them in that sense.

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

I'm sorry you have that impression.

I've never met any person from that school privately or hatched any such plans. At the planning committee I sat on I was honestly undecided about the planning application at the start of the meeting and after much consideration of all the evidence and views presented voted for it being granted planning permission.

Evidence was given that no other site had been found and that clear demand for additional school places. The head was quite inspiring and explained how the site would work very well.

This school now serves 300 local kids and is growing by 150 kids a year until its full. I've had zero casework of problems from this school and this year and last only one item of casework about about secondary school places. Something must be going right.

[first mate]

James,

well then, if I've got it all wrong I apologise. I'll watch this space. As you know, I have no objection to the school just use of the Rye for sports, on anything more than an occasional basis.

[Narnia]

What is your objection first mate? Not a loaded question as I just have no idea what there is to object about?

[DJKillaQueen]

The school itself is fine and James is correct in that it was badly needed. I just question the wisdom of a sports academy with no grounds of it's own.

It is absolutely right to for the public to argue that the areas of the park that are park stay as such instead of being converted into one big sports ground (which almost half the land already is).

Anyway there is abslutely nothing wrong with school children being bussed to pupose built sports grounds, and as that has always been the agreement from the Academy there's nothing really to fuss about I think.

[pk]

first mate Wrote:

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> promises were made and they should be honoured

what are these promises that everyone's talking about? who made them? and to whom?

[first mate]

In an earlier post James Barber was suggesting that in return for use of their changing rooms and conducting drainage work on the Rye sports fields, Harris Boys could use the Rye for sports, given that they have no suitable space on the school site. James was involved at the planning stage for the school. Please read the post by Muttley from 2008, below.

post by Muttley on 3/7/08:

I was at the meeting. At times it got quite heated and emotional (at least, among the members of the public).

The whole case seems to be founded on the fact that, in order to be viable, there has to be a five class intake, i.e. 150 per year group. This seems to be the conventional wisdom for schools these days. Personally I find it hard to believe that a school can't offer a great curriculum with just a four class intake, which would have brought the numbers down to under 800. I'd happily trade a more limited curriculum for more space. If you look at the building plan, there is almost NO outdoor space for the boys to play during breaks.

The second fundamental driver for the 950 total was that the school needs a sixth form to provide mentors for younger pupils. I can see the argument for this, though where Year 7s will get to see these sixth formers (other than along crammed corridors) is unclear.

It was reported that Tessa Jowell's own survey had revealed a majority of locals in favour of the school. I'm extremely cynical about this. The only fair way to assess local opinion would have been to hold a representative survey, asking specifically if people were in favour of a school for 950 (with pictures so that they could see what it will be like). I'm not aware of such a survey. Of course East Dulwich parents are in favour of a new school, but I suspect most people will be shocked when they discover the details.

Final point of note: it was clear from the meeting that there will be NO use of Peckham Rye for sport by the school (except perhaps for the odd special case). Boys will be mini-bused to other sports venues, including South Bank University (is that Burbage Road?) and the velodrome. The latter will offer 'exciting' opportunities for bike activities, apparently.

I don't think we've heard the end of this.

[James Barber]

The school currently using the pitches during weekdays is St.Thomas Apostle College from Peckham. They pay the costs of cleaning the changing room.

The pitches in the Peckham Rye Park have been renovated and should be reopened after a little bit more reseeding in early November and once settled Peckham Rye Common will no longer have formal sports use.

Seems ironic that local residents are against the use during week days by East Dulwich Harris Boys Academy from across the road. So another school from further away are busing in kids to use the pitches.

I'm sure this status quo will remain but it is sad that two schools have to bus kids to access sports playing pitches rather than just one.

[brum]

James Barber Wrote:

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> >

> I'm sure this status quo will remain but it is sad

> that two schools have to bus kids to access sports

> playing pitches rather than just one.

Not just sad - it's barmy!

[first mate]

James,

Are you suggesting that both schools use the pitches or that Harris takes over St Thomas Apostle' slot and they bus their children to a new venue? Would the Harris level of use be the same or more?

[James Barber]

I'm saying that some are up in arms at the mere suggestion of harris boys using the park but another another school is already doing this and no problems are being reported and no one seems bothered by this.

This makes me think the idea is objected to but clearly this has caused no reported problems.

Whether that would mean St.Apostle taking harris slot somewhere else or not appears a detail as the school probably doesn't feel brave enough to weather the storm of locals ire at even the suggestion. So the madness continues.

[first mate]

James,

why not say what you think should happen? You are not speaking for the school, as you have made clear. You clearly feel very strongly about it so, I ask again, do you think both school boys' schools should use PR or just one?

[Narnia]

First mate, I'd still like to know what your objection is if they were to use PR?

[first mate]

Narnia,

In a nutshell a park is designed to be a park not a playing field. It is already clear that even the sports pitches, meant for community use, not as dedicated school playing fields, cannot is their current state sustain repeated use over time.

If the school funds changes to the sports area enabling dedicated use by the various schools that have been mentioned (one of which is a sports academy) I can forsee those sections of the park become slowly unavailable to the rest of the community for much of the time, not least because of the needs of schools re health and safety, it also gives the school massive leverage in terms of how those sections of the park would be managed and used. I fear such a move would also irrevocably change the character of the park and who knows, once some sections are taken, who is to say more would not be used in future?

James Barber is talking up the "madness" of the current situation where another school (not, I believe, a sports academy?) is busing children to the Rye, whilst Harris does not use it, in part owing to assurances to that effect, given at the planning stage with which James Barber was involved. I want to know, therefore, if given the problems I and others have briefly outlined, James Barber is proposing that three schools use the sports facilities instead of two, or that Harris takes over the current usage of another school and whether that level of use would be enough for a boys academy?

[DJKillaQueen]

There is only one dedicated sports field in the park itself (the one that has been reseeded). At present there are also two junior pitches painted on the east side common which seem to be used at weekends for junior matches (I'm guessing because the other field is seeding). So I can't see any room for expansion unless the suggestion is to turn all the grassland areas of the park itself into sports pitches (most of which is unsuitable anyway because of sloping).

Good sports pitches require flat well drained land with dedicated grounds people maintaining and repairing them. It's an entirely different thing to a public park where people play sport occasionally for fun. And there is a shortage of dedicated sports grounds in Southwark anyway, whilst there also being other larger areas of land (like Burgess Park) that could accomodate sports facilities without impacting too much on the existing park.

[first mate]

DJK,

Helpful, informed observations.

Just for the record, I'd like James Barber to clarify his position. I know it's the detail but, as we know, that's where the devil lurks.

[DJKillaQueen]

James I'm afraid, is very good at dodging straight questions - comes with being a politician.

[Narnia]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> James I'm afraid, is very good at dodging straight

> questions - comes with being a politician.

I'm curious what examples you would include in this DJ? Maybe I haven't read enough.

[DJKillaQueen]

I've had plenty of disussions with him in the 'drawing room'......he tends to pick and choose which points he replies to.

[first mate]

Well, let us see if James will answer this one.

2 schools or 3?

If 2 would Harris usage exceed that of the school before, if so by how much?

What sort of sports are we talking about?

[Narnia]

Well,don't most people here do that. I don't read every post on every thread that interests me. Your reply to my question was very vague i.e. it's all in the Drawing Room. Which seems to be more or less what you accuse him of.

[DJKillaQueen]

He is a politician, so it's a bit different. I don't represent people and make decisions on how to spend tax payers money. He on the other hand has a public duty to answer to certain questions and make his views known.

[Narnia]

I thought his view was that it's a shame the school can't use the park for x, y & z reasons.

[DJKillaQueen]

He mentions St.Apostle's use of the Park for example...but it's not a like for like comparison. St.Apostle has it's own facilities (including swimming pool) so it's usage of PR is not a primary one.

Harris has no outdoor facilities so I think James's view is that if one school can use the Park for some of it's sports, then why can't Harris?...only PR in it's current state wouldn't be able to accomodate the outdoor sports of an entire school (and nor should it be expected to - it's not a sports ground, it's a park) and so 'first mates' question is valid.

I'd be interested to know if Harris school pays for use of the pitches at Southbank.

[James Barber]

People had posted how they were dead against Harris Boys using Peckham Rye Park/Common as the parks aren't for schools.

Someone usefully oberserved that they are already bookable by schools. I just found out which school as I wanted to confirm whether that was a fact or not. It is a fact.

So those that are against Harris Boys using the park are you also against St.Apostle's use as well?

As for should Harris replace St.Apostle or also join them in using the park bookable pitches. I honestly don't know whether the park pitches have the capacity or not. But without getting over people's angst about this and apparent hypocrisy then not much point enquiring in detail.