Harris East Dulwich Boys' school

[louisiana]

Craig83 Wrote:

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> What's the problem with the school using the park?

> Its not like there's not enough space over there

> eh? The people who are winging about it must be

> on the social anyway - why else would they be

> concerned with school groups using the park during

> working hours? What harm can they do its not as if

> teachers are going to be holding Burger King

> eating conferences over there and telling children

> to litter the place with half squeezed packets of

> ketchup is it? Quite the contrary. If your gonna

> live in nappy valley folks you gotta get used to

> the idea that you'll see kids having fun sometime

> even if it is in your beloved park.

>

> And before anyone comes back with 'oh actually I'm

> self employed and when I'm not working intensely

> from my study with PR park views I like to

> selfishly immerse myself in school child free

> pastures' - take your easy job and do it in East

> Dulwich park with your laptop. You'll probably

> have a more pleasurable afternoon

Wow, what a bundle of apoplexy. Is the daily 9 to 5 (or is it 8 to 8 these days?) getting you down, old bean?

I'd take some beta blockers and calm down if I were you. Perhaps join the ranks of self employed who work when they like and get to amble around the park every day. And yes, it is very social :)

[DJKillaQueen]

Yep it Friday night alright lol.

There's a very good reason why the 900 or so kids from the school don't use the park.....because there aren't the facilities there to accomodate either the frequency of sport or range of sport they do. That's why they hire dedicated sports grounds, swimmimg pools and other facilities, which are maintained as such.

Take football for example. Football boots damage grass, which is why football pitches have to be maintained (non maintained pitches can be dangerous otherwise). Peckham Rye currently has one sports field out of use because it needs new seed to grow and has a water logging problem on the North part of the common.

The rest of the park is just that, a park, and NOT a sports ground.

It might be an idea to read the thread before posting insults at posters Craig and Paul.....as you'll see all the answers are already in the thread as to what the school does and why.

[intexasatthe moment]

if Harris can afford to do up these academys

The cost of building an Academy runs into millions ( ? 35 million being not unusual ).

Orginally sponsors were expected to contribute ?2 million . This sum was reduced to ?1.5 million for sponsors ,like Harris ,with 4 or more Academies.

This requirement was dropped in 2006 so that sponsors are now required to set up endowment funds , some are not required to contribute at all

" sponsors with a successful track record of running educational institutions (including high performing schools and colleges, universities and sponsors of existing academies) are expected to establish an endowment fund, but are not required to commit any specific sum to the endowment." (http://www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/academies/what_are_academies/sponsorship/?version=1)

The Guardian reports on replies to a Parliamentary question as follows

sponsors in total have so far stumped up barely two-thirds of the ?145m they are supposed to have paid towards capital costs in the seven years since the first of England's 200 academies opened.

and

Lord Harris, chairman and chief executive of Carpetright plc, sponsors a chain of nine academies in south London. Seven, for whom sponsorship is listed in the written answer, have so far received ?3.7m of the ?8.5m pledged.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/dec/01/academies-sponsors-government-funding

I think we need to remember that these Academies are largely funded by the tax payer ,and that the monies provided by the sponsor are minimal.

[pablogrande]

Got to say

[pablogrande]

Got to say this thread makes me more than a little depressed. How could we possibly have kids from the local area playing sport in a huge green space less than thirty meters from it's gate. Nine hundred kids means how many doing sports at ny one time, ninety? So some will be swimming or doing indoor sports are we saying forty or fifty kids couldn't be in the park for a couple of hours twice a day. Surely the cost of buses alone would cover any maintenance costs to pitches etc. I would have thought the park ideal for cross country etc.

DJKQ what does "the rest of the park is just that, a park NOT a sports ground" actually mean, what exactly are we allowed to do in a park if we go by your rules?

[BPAUL85]

DJKillaQueen - i have read it. very boring!! i'm not insulting anyone, i'm "presuming". It's a forum for god's sake. heavens forbid i joke around. Don't worry I wont ruin you're litle discussion about that park...i'll stick to discussions about recycling and fox excrement!!!

[JohnL]

Are children allowed to play school sports in a park where adults might be also- i.e. would adults be banned from that area of the park ?

If its just an informal free for all - I'm OK with that.

pablogrande Wrote:

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> Got to say this thread makes me more than a little

> depressed. How could we possibly have kids from

> the local area playing sport in a huge green space

> less than thirty meters from it's gate. Nine

> hundred kids means how many doing sports at ny one

> time, ninety? So some will be swimming or doing

> indoor sports are we saying forty or fifty kids

> couldn't be in the park for a couple of hours

> twice a day. Surely the cost of buses alone would

> cover any maintenance costs to pitches etc. I

> would have thought the park ideal for cross

> country etc.

>

> DJKQ what does "the rest of the park is just that,

> a park NOT a sports ground" actually mean, what

> exactly are we allowed to do in a park if we go by

> your rules?

[Jaef]

Generally common land is heavily protected from development by national statutory policies. Is the land in question common land? Check with the common land registration authority. If registered as such, it is common land. Generally, access to common land is allowed the public by the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (CROW)for walking and perhaps riding horses - but earlier statutes may allow that and other kinds of access/use. Some common lands have long established user rights, eg golf courses.

It seems doubtful that development would be allowed (unless it is exempt development). Sports facilities/ changing rooms (say)- despite the strong case that might be made for a local school - seem doubtful. It is a matter for 1) the owner of the common (?) land; 2) the local planning authority; 3) the secretary of state (Planning Inspectorate) (see section 38 of the Commons Act 2006) and other stakeholders - local, (eg the school) and national, (eg the Open Spaces Society). My Common Lands Handbook (Institute of Revenues, Rating and Valuation) examines the issues of development and other matters.

[DJKillaQueen]

The park has rules set by Southwark Council, not me, because they spend money maintaining it. As someone that uses the park I abide by those rules.....as do the most people that enjoy use of it. I personally have no porblem with the school hiring pitches etc during the week for field events...they'd be paying for it. But I can totally understand why the nice areas of grass in the park should not be used by the school. They are not sports ground.

Anyway it seems to be the consensus by those who were involved in original discussions with the school that there are not adequate facilities in the park to accomodate it. Again nothing to do with my view....is what it is.

[dbboy]

I think the word's killjoys and NIMBY comes to mind. It's a PUBLIC park and the rye is COMMON ground - COMPRI

[DJKillaQueen]

You are entitled to your opinion but you clearly haven't understood a thing about 'lack of facilities' and maintenance costs.....and the park is OWNED by Southwark Council who allow the public to use it but could just as easily fence it off and keep us all out. They set the rules not us - do you COMPRI?

[Mick Mac]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Real dilemma. Harris East Dulwich Boys Academy is

> indeed opposite Peckham Rye Common. Peckham Rye

> Common needs drainage to ensure its pitches can be

> used throughout the winter - its often water

> logged and curreent users have to go elsewhere.

> Peckham Rye Common also has inadequate changing

> facilities but no one really wants a massive

> changing room sports complex built. Across the

> road Harris Boys has changing rooms a plenty.

> Harris Boys buses its kids to playing fields

> elsewhere.

>

> It seems blindingly obvious to me that IF the boys

> school opened its changing rooms up at the weekend

> and helped fund drainage it should be allowed to

> use the football pitches in the week.

How are you getting on with sorting out an appropriate school for ED people? Is there any plan for a (non academy) quality secondary school in east dulwich.

I currently live in Friern Road and have NO gilrs secondary school within 1 km of my address.

Please do something.

[boosboss]

Peckham Rye Park and Peckham Rye (Metropolitan Open Land, not Common Land), couldn't sustain the level of use the school would require. Besides the drainage issue on Peckham Rye, the pitches need to be rested periodically to cope with the current level of usage.

Harris Girls Academy do use an area of the park for light athletics use in early summer, when the pitches are being rested.

The ground is owned and managed by Southwark Council.

Harris Academy have in place agreements with dedicated sports facilities to provide adequate provisions for their requirements.

[James Barber]

Apologies for repeating myself but Peckham Rye Common football pitches biggest problem is lack of changing facilities and that the pitches are frequently waterlogged and unplayable.

East Dulwich Harris Boys Academy has changing facilities for its sports hall etc but has to bus kids to playing fields.

The Peckham Rye Common football pitches are used by teams some of which have contacted all councillors highlighting the terrible changing facilities and proudly proclaiming that its team members come from across London (and when enquired upon stating few players from Southwark.

East Dulwich Harris Boys Academy near 100% Southwark/East Dulwich kids.

We all want kids to be more active. Hating this school and insisting all sports are undertaken a bus journey away seems rather sad. It can't help the kids feel good about where they live or us grown ups.

[Fuschia]

I think it fairly standard for London schools to hire pitches in Council run parks (along with swimming pools etc) where they don't have facilities of their own. This is not a particularly cheap option though.

I do think it's a bit out of order if it was specifically stated in planning meetings that the academy WOULDN'T use facilities at P Rye, for them to change their mind so quickly, but I'm not surprised.

[James Barber]

Hi Fuschia,

The school hasn't changed its mind as it would'nt wont the controversy or distraction.

It has come up on this forum. that isn't the same as the school proposing it. Equally it doesn't mean its not a good idea.

[DJKillaQueen]

We all want kids to be more active. Hating this school and insisting all sports are undertaken a bus journey away seems rather sad.

Well maybe if existing schools hadn't sold off their playing fields for development and new schools weren't built without adaquate grounds (which you would think would be a necessity for a Sports Academy) there wouldn't be the need for this debate.

All of these issues were discussed in the planning stages and the solutions were agreed. Those solutions did not include Rye Park...so too late to start arguing the opposite James, esp. as it was your Lib Dem led council that sanctioned the building of a sports academy with no grounds for sport in the first place.

[trevone64]

theyve had open days this wk check them out

[Tarot]

Many years ago ,schools used to hire coaches to ferry kids to Crystal Palace sports fields.It was better equiped for all the sports, changing rooms.tracks,etc. all there. This could be a good solution now.

[Fuschia]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> We all want kids to be more active. Hating this

> school and insisting all sports are undertaken a

> bus journey away seems rather sad.

>

> Well maybe if existing schools hadn't sold off

> their playing fields for development and new

> schools weren't built without adaquate grounds

> (which you would think would be a necessity for a

> Sports Academy) there wouldn't be the need for

> this debate.

Academy issue aside, most London schools without playing fields that I know of, never had any! Think the traditional victorian building - Heber, Goodrich and secondaries built at the same time. I think it's a bit of an urban myth. the sale of playing fields. Schools can't sell their grounds and wouldn't retain the capital receipt even if they did.

[brum]

I admit to being baffled. In recent weeks I've regularly visited this park on weekday mornings and virtually every time I've seen school kids using the sports fields. These are kids usually arriving by coach. What is the difference, then, with kids from a school so close to the park, using the same facilities? Its barmy.

[Fuschia]

brum Wrote:

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> I admit to being baffled. In recent weeks I've

> regularly visited this park on weekday mornings

> and virtually every time I've seen school kids

> using the sports fields. These are kids usually

> arriving by coach. What is the difference, then,

> with kids from a school so close to the park,

> using the same facilities? Its barmy.

James' point is that schools do use playing fields in that way (and it's certainly common practice)

The point others are making is that as a sports academy with no green space, objections amde at the planing meetings were met with promises that the school wouldn't be relying on P Rye as its green space.

Who knows what spare capacity there is at P Rye? I work at a school in E London nd we have playung fields opposite but they are in so much demand we ca't book them for more than a fraction of the time we need. Certainly if a new secondary school was bult in our area and was going to be using the same facility, we would object on the basis that the fields are already inadequate for the needs of existing schools.

That's what it will come down to in the end will be my guess.

If there is spare capacity at P Rye, the council will want/need the income and it is stupid for the academy to ship children off by bus. But it was clearly dishonest if false assurances were given at planning meetings.

If P Rye is already fully used by local schools, then it's all the more an issue regarding the original planning discussion...

[James Barber]

The school is happilly busing our kids to playing field for those lessons that require playing fields.

I said I thought it a shame and sad that they couldn't use Peckham Rye Common opposite them IN EXCHANGE for allowing weekend access to its changing rooms.

As for its sports academy status. The head was quite clear that this is about ensuring every child experiences the benefits of coaching and being coached. Hence the sports hall in the new building.

Selling school play grounds and playing fields. No playgrounds or playing fields have been sold in Southwark while the Lib Dems were in charge from 2002-2010. In fact I'm rather proud that Dickens School playgrounds hugely expanded by closing a road and linking it to other land handed over to the school. This tripled the playground. I've done the maths several times on whether anything like that could be done in East Dulwich and have yet to find a suitable candidate.

[first mate]

James,

your mantra: that the school would not dream of asking for use of Peckham Rye but that this does not stop you, as a politician stating how silly that position is, does makes it look as though you and the school had a plan all along- them being good cop and you doing the dirty work. It is this sort of dishonesty that gives politicians a bad name. As I have said, promises were made and they should be honoured. If you did not agree with kids being bussed in and out then you should have ensured that a more appropriate site was found, one with enough space to meet the needs of the students.

[Narnia]

It may look like that to you but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true.