Harris East Dulwich Boys' school

[SeanMacGabhann]

As someone who has no interest in this or any other school, and as someone who loves Peckham Rye, can I say that I have no problem with the school using the park as a sports field?

Yes there are "challenges" but nothing that can't be sorted if the will is there. Most of what I've read is a lot of bluster. Well-intentioned maybe but it's another reminder why so few people can be arsed to get into the actual getting-hands-dirty-and-things-done business of politics. If james (or anyone else) spent EVERy minute of every day answering questions directly, he would still hae a lot of pissed-off people saying he nevergot back to them. There are only so many times he can answer a given question - you know his position from his posts on here so just deal with it

If a section of the Rye is hived off for sports, we can agree that it will benefit the school and the pupils surely?

and the rest of us? We'll be fine. No really, we will

But man if I was a politician I would go nuts

[SeanMacGabhann]

cross-posted with James

[first mate]

James,

I'd have thought in your position, given your involvement at planning, and with such strong views, you'd be more on top of the detail. Current usage by schools is only light, is it not? You need to be clear about what you are suggesting for Harris- what sports would be played, how much time would the school take up on the Rye each day? What changes would have to take place to make the Rye fit for dedicated sports use by a school, if that is what you are suggesting? I feel you must have thought some of this stuff through already?

I'm not sure anyone has said that parks are not for schools. Any member of any school has the right to use a park. Just about everyone has said they do not object to light or occasional use by schools- the issue is whether a section of the park is turned into a dedicated playing field. There is also a fear that if Harris were to have light/occasional use of the park this would soon change to heavy/ constant use.

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

I've never suggested hiving of any of the park or common. God, we have so little green space as it is and we're lucky down here compared to the north of Southwark.

I've said its a shame people are dead against the Harris school ever using any of the existing sports pitches when other schools have or are using it to play sports.

And previous posts from people have stated things like Harris boys using the park/common "is not an option".

[intexasatthe moment]

The " hived off " expression was used by Sean ,expressing support for use of park by school/s.

[first mate]

James,

You know as well I that the level of usage is key to the concerns. High usage is a very different proposition to low usage. It is the proximity of Harris to the park that suggests high usage would soon be the order of the day. I cannot seem to pin you down on that detail. It's likely you do not know but surely, even you must agree, it is fairly important to be clear on usage otherwise we do not know what exactly you are proposing?

[DJKillaQueen]

To be fair though Sean, the thing that some are concerned about is the reversal of the previous (and hard fought agreement it seems) that Harris would not use the park for it's sports along with a fear that if the school uses the park for one or two matches a week or training sessions, that one or two will soon become nine or ten and so on.

It's also unfair to accuse FOPR and others who are concerned of nimbyism as well when FOPR have worked so hard for almost two decades to have the park restored to the amazing resource it is now.

I think it has been made clear by James there is no plan to reverse that agreement and also Harris have absolutely kept to that which gives me the view that if they were to have a limited use of the park in the way other schools and indeed communiy groups/ Sunday league teams and others currently do they would keep to that as well.

Having said that there are issues with capacity and drainage and maintenance costs. While RP might be more convenient, it may well not be cheaper for Harris to use if they were allowed to anyway (and bear in mind Harris is not at pupil capacity yet).

[Huggers]

btw which schools are currently regularly using the park? Every morning there's been one school playing rounders at the south east end, and boys playing footie just north east of the one o clock club.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I hear you DJ, but?. Are reversals always bad?

It does sound as if previous agreements were hard-fought but were they correct (I mean what kind of split are we talking, and is it just people who showed up ? I don?t know, I?m genuinely asking)

And even if it was correct then, can we not rethink, now that the school is there and reasses the requirments? Or mus we never change our minds?

I know many people will adopt a ?no surrender? mentality and refuse point blank. And I?m not unthinkingly saying there definitely should be sports provisions regardless of anyones opinions

But it?s hard to think what the nay-sayers are objecting to really. The area needs a new school. The locations seems sound. The problems about using the park (drainage etc) .. well? they aren?t insurmountable. Without the concessions a few years back (?ok we won?t use the Rye for sports?) the school probably wouldn?t have gone ahead . That doesn?t seem very useful to me

No-one is proposing building a multistorey car-park on the Rye. It seems ludicrous to an objective observer that such a large piece of land can?t donate a fraction of the area to share with the school. Adding more traffic bussing the pupils elsewhere doesn?t seem to be solving any issues either

[DJKillaQueen]

Bussing kids to sports grounds/ facilities isn't that unusual in the borough. One of the reasons why I asked the question of how much Harris pay (if at all) to use Southbank is because there are hirable grounds pitches nearer than Southbank, many of which have minimal usage during the week (as weekend league games are their primary custom).

It does seem mad that the common area is out of use most of the winter because of drainage problems but at the same time we need to take on board the post that reveals that the Harris foundation hasn't yet paid anything like all of the money it pledged to it's schools. That doesn't help it's cause.

[Natty]

I just wondered if ANY ONE had anything to say about the actual school and/or attended the open day. I think that is what the original message was trying to ascertain. I for one would like to hear people's experience of the school! Anyone....???

[intexasatthe moment]

Couple of comments here

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,546773,549583#msg-549583

[Natty]

Thanks for that but the discussion is actually about Kingsdale. Anybody got anything other than use of the PR???

[intexasatthe moment]

The discussion is about Kingsdale but there are a couple of comments about the new Harris boys Academy

"I have a few friends with children at Harris boys. The quality of education seems to be on a par with Crystal palace, if not even better as they have more to prove. However you may want to check whether the harsh discipline regime will suit your child as they are very strict."

" I also have a son and would not be happy to send him to Harris. It has a boot camp aspect that I find really unattractive. An earlier post suggested that Kingsdale could be a bit disorganised and the teaching at Harris was possibly better. This is not my experience or that of any other Kingsdale parents I've spoken to including one who took her son out of Harris because of the militaristic atmosphere."

"Are you talking about Harris Boys Eliza because yes I agree it could be called a boot camp? However, Harris Crystal Palace is a very different school with a much more relaxed and informal atmosphere. Unless you have had children at both I don't see how you can compare."

[BB100]

Thanks texasatthemoment for posting one or two of my comments above but be careful what you read into this. The poster who trys to defend Kingsdale has only had her child there for a few weeks and as her first child is a girl I wonder if she has actually even visited Harris Boys anyway. I know parents who have taken their kids out of Kingsdale as well and others who agree it can be disorganised at times. I suppose it depends on who you talk to as I do have a child at Kingsdale as well.

Harris Boys is being run like an independent public boys school and does operate a very strict discipline regime. But parents who have boys there tell me it is firm but fair and they think the school is fantastic. One parent said to me that she feels she has got a private school for free. I think you just have to be sure that your child can cope with having to be well-behaved all the time.

[puzzled]

the fact remains that we were told specifically that harris boys (and, in fact, the girls) would not be using the park for their sports. now, james barber seems to think they should. thank goodness he is no longer in a position of power!! in any event, the soccer pitches are in such a dreadful state that they are not being used this season. the crowd of visiting kids using the park last week arrived in a mini bus that drove through the gates and onto the grass before parking. thanks guys, for chewing up even more of the grass. this is a park... and it is OUR park so, james your mates, cycle away and leave it alone!

[Huggers]

Puzzled, you say it's not being used this season but every morning this week I ve seen both lower and upper bits of Peckham Rye being used by two different schools simultaneously...

[Huggers]

Puzzled, you say it's not being used this season but every morning this week I ve seen both lower and upper bits of Peckham Rye being used by two different schools simultaneously...

[puzzled]

all the soccer pitches are out of commission (there are signs telling people to keep, but they are ignored). the harris girls use the bit of the park next to their school, b ut I haven't seen any other schools there, apart from the busload if tinies last week.

[DJKillaQueen]

There are two piches painted and being used on (what is normally open grass) the south east side of the Parks. The sports field behind the childrens' playground is out of use because of seeding, but that is the only one I think. You could easily find out from the Park Manager.

[Huggers]

..and the field just north east of the one o clock club used by boys in maroon uniform daily,

[cn150]

Thanks for the comments everybody - my initial post has sparked a lot of interesting, if not always objective debate. We will just have to keep our eyes on things and see how the school develops.

Does anyone know where its pupils are typicaly coming from - is is just local recruitment, i.e. SE15 / SE22 - or are some coming from further afield?

[east-of-the-Rye]

Two other grassy spaces very near to Harris Girls and Boys: the Athenley Football ground on the deadend part of Homestall Road (near the entrance to the Reservoir) and the top of the Honor Oak Reservoir itself - a golf course currently occupies part/much of it. If there any possibility of pupils from the school using either of these local green spaces for PE? (or maybe they do already?)

[BB100]

cn150 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks for the comments everybody - my initial

> post has sparked a lot of interesting, if not

> always objective debate. We will just have to keep

> our eyes on things and see how the school

> develops.

>

> Does anyone know where its pupils are typicaly

> coming from - is is just local recruitment, i.e.

> SE15 / SE22 - or are some coming from further

> afield?

One Harris boy told me he came from Orpington! I think the first years intake had a very wide catchment as it was an unknown school with no history. All the children I know that go there are from SE4 or SE23.

[cn150]

Ok - thank you