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titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Toponomy

> Wembley is derived from the Old English proper

> name "Wemba" and the Old English "Lea" for meadow

> or clearing. The name was first mentioned in the

> charter of 825 of Selvin. King Beornwulf.


Well ? There you go..


Foxy

You're right, Fox - didn't mean to suggest it wasn't worthy of credit. What I meant is that it looks like somebody's homework or school project, and I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting it should be treated as accurate reference material. It's a bit of fun to see the place names, etc. I suppose it would be asking too much to suggest that 'edhistory' lightens up a little?
"In 2011, we put together a map showing the London area in Anglo Saxon times (roughly speaking, 500-1066AD). It's pieced together from many resources, showing our guess at the roads, rivers, forests and marshland that characterised the region. The main purpose was to highlight the many villages, hamlets and farmsteads whose names are still part of modern London. For example, the map shows 'Wemba Lea', the land belonging to a local chieftain by the name of Wemba. We know nothing about Mr Wemba, yet his name is familiar to millions, perhaps billions, through its continuation into our own times as Wembley. Similarly, Croydon is a corruption of Crog Dene, which meant something like 'valley of the crocuses'." http://londonist.com/2014/01/anglo-saxon-london-map-updated

The map's author, Matt Brown, did comment, on the same page: "I didn't really use any old maps, as none exist until Tudor times. It's a combination of many, many resources. I started by drawing the river system, which is well known and little changed from ancient times. I then plotted the Roman roads, using reference material from the Museum of London and other sources. The place names come from a variety of sources. I used the Domesday Book as the backbone, supplemented with references from British History Online and other scholarly publications. In most cases, you'll find variations on the place name, as names changed over the centuries, and were given different spellings. I've generally gone for the earliest known appellation. I've also been writing about the etymology and history of London for well over a decade, so it no doubt incorporates many of my own personal biases like any map."


One of his other contributions is specifically about old London maps: http://londonist.com/london/oldmaps.


One I found myself, an 1810 version of late Anglo-Saxon London proper, is at http://www.antique-maps-online.co.uk/london-2912.html or http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/crace/l/007zzz000000001u00006000.html and gives a starker impression of the reality. http://opendomesday.org/place/TQ3376/peckham/, for example, reports just four households in Peckham, and twenty nine in Camberwell.


The Oxford Dictionary of British Place Names (available online via Southwark Libraries site) is a bit disappointing on more recent London district names -- no entry, for example, for any of the first three I checked, Colindale, Colliers Wood, and Nunhead.

> I started by drawing the river system, which is well known and little changed from ancient times


Well, he didn't do very well when it came to South East London "river" systems. He seems totally ignorant of the topography South of the Thames.


Perhaps Matt Brown lives in North London.

> I loved the place names


Which are largely wrong.


> Edhistory - are you suggesting it's incorrect


Not just "incorrect", but badly wrong for South London. I do not know about North London.


You can follow this through from the "ancient rivers" assertion. You might also like to check out the construction date of "Earl's Sluice" which is shown on the map.


> do you have another map you have come across which shows the local area from a similar time?


Yes, but only partial areas covered by archaeological reports. Don't forget that the area North of Camberwell and Peckham was tidal marsh, and not worth mapping.


The best free online-source I know is the London Archaeologist archive. The newly originated data about Battersea Eyot (Island) appears here.


Most new material appears in academic journals where you have to buy hard copies or use JSTOR access. Does Southwark Libraries have a JSTOR subscription?

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