How much privacy should kids have?

[sillywoman]

Am really coming at this from the angle of a Mum with teens. DD14 has always refused to allow me to be her friend on Facebook & I've agreed (with a bit of moaning) as I can see she needs some areas of privacy from her parents. I talk to her frequently about upcoming issues - drink, smoking, sex, not putting herself in dangerous situation - I meet up with her friends Mums regularly to compare notes on various parties, should they be allowed to go, what's your line on makeup, How short are the skirts etc. etc.

But, yesterday a younger, mutual friend with access to DD's Fb account emailed me with some concerns - essentially photo's posted of a party she went to where alcohol & what looks like a bong were present, none with DD partaking though. She is adamant that I should insist on being DD's friend on FB so that I can monitor what she's up to. Frankly I feel uncomfortable with this as she's growing up & surely I have to be able to trust her to run some areas of her life herself? What to do?

What's your view? If you have teens are you their FB friend? If you don't what do you think is reasonable?

[womanofdulwich]

You sound as if you have done as much as you could. CAn you find out whose party it was and where the parents were? I would not let my 14 year old son go to a party where there were no adults present.Did you take / pick up from party? I think at 14 they should still allow you to drop off/ collect.

[Fuschia]

I don't have a teenager but I remember being one. I think if she doesn't want you on FB you can't force her.

It's not such a big deal being at a party with dope and alcohol at 14. I think your role is to make sure she knows how to keep herself safe and can confide in you, as you are doing.

If your friend can keep an eye on her via FB that's no bad thing.

[Moos]

SW, I don't have children your daughter's age so perhaps you're looking for advice from someone in a comparable position, but for what it's worth I'd say your respect of your daughter's privacy on FB is the right approach. I think a girl of 14 should have some privacy and she will only change what she puts on FB if you push her.

With regard to the party, it's inevitable that she will be going to parties with alcohol and possibly drugs at her age. I know it's absolutely not what you want, but perhaps following up with regard to this particular party (what happened, who was in charge) and continuing your discreet oversight via the mums' network, especially making sure parties she goes to have some adults in the vicinity who can step in if there are any problems would be a good idea.

Really good luck resolving.

[Growlybear]

I doubt that there are many 14 year olds who haven't been to parties where there was alcohol and dope available, and I would think it highly unlikely that there are many 14 year olds who haven't experimented by this age. I think the teenage years are a very worrying period for parents, but I think the more you try to keep close tabs on teenage girls, the more secretive and resentful they become. I think it would be a real mistake to try to force her to add you as a friend on Facebook - surely she would only start a new account anyway? I can't think of any circumstances that would make me consider adding my daughter to MY Facebook friends! I also remember what I was like at 14, and how horrified I would have been if my parents had wanted to know details of the parties I went to; I would have seen it as a real intrusion into my privacy, and would have been hurt that they did not feel able to trust my judgment.

So long as you feel your children are not putting themselves in really unsafe situations such as walking home alone late at night, and know where they are in case of emergencies, I think you have to take a deep breath, and realise that you can't control their lives for them.

[womanofdulwich]

Of course you are unlikely to be allowed on Facebook - that is their space. But I think drugs and alcohol at 14 is not usual if in a parents house for anyone under 16. I think it is completely irresponsible.

Of course our children are always gettign themselves into difficult situations and need to know how to handle these things but again I stress i don't think any responsible paretns would allow 14 year olds to be unsupervised at this age. It is asking for BIG trouble. I would make sure from now on whose party she was going to and run through what she should do if things get out of hand.Gate crashers- houses being smasehd up Police etc etc. Now I sound too scary sorry. Just seen it all before and it is not nice to witness.They are only 14. I think what others are referring to at 14 happens more at 16.

[Growlybear]

But it's not possible to be sure that parents or adults will stay in all night to supervise a party. And even if they are in the house, they won't necessarily be aware of everything that is going on. When my daughter was still at primary school, she went to a party at a friend's house, where the seemingly responsible parents were in the next room for the entire evening, but unfortunately it didn't stop several of the children looking at hard core porn on the family computer.

Whether or not parents condone alcohol being consumed at parties for 14 year olds, I doubt very much whether they can prevent it, and any parent who thinks that their 14 year old has not experimented with alcohol and/or dope is living in a fantasy world. Teenagers don't need to be at wild parties at midnight to drink or smoke - just walk through any local park on a Saturday afternoon or after school.

[Huggers]

I don't want my children to be my facebook friends- I want my adult space as much as they want their teenage space. But having said that I keep my ear to the ground re my children and keep myself informed.

Re parties where there are no parents present, I remember at that age we always knew which house had the laissez faire parents where you could smoke. As a parent I make myself aware of who those other parents are and my children know that I know and it takes a lot of pressure off them, they can always blame me to extricate themselves from a situation.

Mobile phone texting and emailing have opened up a whole new area where our children can have uninhibited communication- I don't spy on mine but Ive said I may take a look from time to time - as part of the deal- and I do. It's a boundary that means they know they can be checked up on.

[sillywoman]

yes WOD, I agree. It was a house party, & a local boy in her year so I can & will easily investigate that particular instance further (though without going overboard I think) to see who was the adult in charge. Actually as I type I'm recalling that she & her friend came home early from that party saying that the boy's older (6th form) sister had invited lots of her mates & they kind of took over the party. That might explain the bong (are they still called that)?

I think you are all kind of backing up my instinct, which is to trust her (whilst keeping a watchful eye) and let her have the privacy she needs on FB.

Don't you find that every now & again someone comes along and questions whether what you're doing with your kids is right - I love this forum for being available for some common sense when I doubt myself - and silliness when I need it too!

[peckhamboy]

I would never have had my parents on facebook when i was 14 (if it had been invented then!). And certainly by the age of 16 I had been to house parties where alcohol and other substances were available, and no parents were present. And I don't think it did me too much harm (as one of sillywoman's recent NCT pupils, she may or may not agree with that!). Of course, as the parent of a 3-month old I'm no expert in parenting teenagers...

[GinaG3]

Its a tricky subject is privacy especially with teenagers. I'm only just in my 20's now and know from experience if my mum and dad wanted to know anything I wouldn't let them know. My parents are friends on my Facebook now but I'm not a teen anymore, have my own family and my own responsibilities . Personally the more my mum and dad tried with me the more I rebelled against them. I wanted my privacy and thought they should of respected that. If I got into a 'very' difficult situation I always knew they would be there for me. Of course this is different for every teen, I was very rebellious and took every opportunity to rebel whereas a few of my friend were the total opposite.

I don't believe parents are to blame, of course you can be too lenient but teenagers love to push buttons and see where the boundaries lie. Its all part of growing up. Its exactly the same as toddlers pushing boundaries its all a learning curve. I'm probably going to get jumping on here but a lot of teens will do as they please, they will experiment with drugs, alcohol and sex, specially with all the hormones at that age but its your duty to let them know how to stay safe in these situations. Of course you will still worry but once again thats your job as a parent.

Being a parent myself now, I look back and don't necessarily feel regret at my choices in my teenage years but definitely feel guilty as to what I put my parents through. I was irresponsible but I enjoyed it, why not, I had no responsibility in my life at that time. One thing I did know was how to handle myself and keep safe in various situation and was always with one friend at least. I always carried a phone on me incase I got in trouble and needed help.

[chantelle]

I have neices this age (14 and 16) and their parents (and the rest of family such as me and their grandmothers) are their friends on FB. They also talk to their parents about what goes on at parties. Maybe because their parents have stressed how important it is to have an open dialogue about drug and alcohol use. I'm shocked by the laissez faire attitude here - that it's acceptable to be doing these things at 14 and going to unsupervised parties, and that the child's privacy is regarded as more important than their safety.

It is not inevitable or normal that your child will regularly do drugs and alcohol at age 14. And they should be not be at unspervised parties until age 16 or older, in my opinion.

[Growlybear]

chantelle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> It is not inevitable or normal that your child

> will regularly do drugs and alcohol at age 14. And

> they should be not be at unspervised parties until

> age 16 or older, in my opinion.

I don't think anyhone has suggested that it is normal for 14 year olds to take drugs or drink alcohol to excess regularly, but I think it's incredibly naive to think that the majority of 14 year olds haven't trieddrink or dope. I have always had a very open and frank relationship with my daughter, and think I have a realistic view about her life and that of her friends. Whilst I don't like some of what she tells me, at least I believe that I DO know the worst of what she gets up to, unlike the parents of many of her friends who still think their teenage daughters are little angels who hold hands with the boy next door in the milk shake bar, and would be completely horrified if they knew what I've been told about their little darlings. Because my daughter is open with me, I am far more able to give her relevant advice that will help her to look after herself and keep herself safe in difficult situations. She knows that I am always there if she needs me and that she can come to me with any problems; she has sought advice on behalf of her friends on several occasions when they have been in trouble and have been unable to approach their own parents who were completely out of touch with their lives.

[sillywoman]

chantelle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm shocked by the laissez

> faire attitude here - that it's acceptable to be

> doing these things at 14 and going to unsupervised

> parties, and that the child's privacy is regarded

> as more important than their safety.

>

> It is not inevitable or normal that your child

> will regularly do drugs and alcohol at age 14. And

> they should be not be at unspervised parties until

> age 16 or older, in my opinion.

I think you've misread chantelle. I don't recall anyone condoning these things on this thread. No-one has said anything about doing drink & drugs regularly being inevitable or normal at 14, or saying that 14 year olds at unsupervised parties is acceptable. Quite the opposite actually. You might want to re-read the thread and reconsider your accusations? If our attitude to our children was laissez faire then we wouldn't be posting for discussion now would we?

[Ruth_Baldock]

My sister has just turned 17, but has had FB since she's was 14. My Mum and I are both added as friends, and my Mum reguarly 'catches her out' when she's tagged in photos drinking and such. Sometimes, my sister L will lie and say she's going to a mate's house when really she's going clubbing illegally (she was at Fabric not a million years ago...). She was tagged in several photos, off her face, and Mum saw. I THINK she's been grounded for about a million years. Worst thing is that Mum did genuinely trust L, but L just totally abused it. Tut tut.

When I was 14, a mere 11 years ago, there was no WAY I'd have added my Mum as a mate on FB, because she would have caught me out (I was generally a good kid, but we all have our moments...) I'm 25 now and she keeps posting things on my wall about not getting knocked up again and correcting my friend's spelling. CRINGE.

[candj]

Really good thread Sillywoman and makes for interesting reading to someone who doesn't have teenagers... yet - eeeek! Everyone's advice is well reasoned, sensible and realistic so hope I can be the same when the time comes.

[The Nappy Lady]

Eugh Sillywoman, huge sympathy from me, I am dreading the teenage years, based on what I was like, and how strong willed both my girls are it is NOT going to be fun.

I do remember my Mum reading my diary at some point when I was around the age of your daughter, and I was so outraged. Of course now I totally understand her motives, but back then I was so angry with her. This is the closest I can come to imagining how your daughter will feel if she thinks you've been snooping on her Facebook account (I know you haven't, that someone approached you, but she may feel that way about it, and worse case scenario may even de-friend that person, which will leave you without the knowledge that that person is keeping half an eye out for you). It could all have very negative repercussions. Overall I get the impression you are handling things just right, guiding her with a gentle hand. If you can do some investigations, without it being obvious to her that you are, or WHY you are, then all to the good, but I suspect the older sister mentioned at the party has a lot to do with it...and your daughter and friend choosing to leave early sounds very positive, as if they didn't want to hang around in that environment anyway.

Growlybear, I so hope I have a similar relationship with my girls to the one you describe when the time comes. One of the sayings used a lot in our house already is "Even when I'm angry with you I still love you". Now our 6 year old says it back to us when she's cross with us! I always want them to feel they can talk to me, not as a friend, but as a parent they can trust to guide and support, even if they think I'm going to say stuff they may not want to hear.

Oh, need to go and have a glass of wine now as trembling at the thought of what lies 8 or 9 years down the line.....:-S

Incidentally - there's no risk of daughter finding/reading this thread is there? If so it may be worth getting the FRM to delete it in due course....

xxx

[Saffron]

Oh man, I'm 33, and I STILL don't want my mother to be my FB friend!! Cut the apron strings. It's the best thing you can do for your child. (Someone please remind me of this when my own DD turn 14... in 13 1/4 years).

[chantelle]

sillywoman Wrote:

------------------------------------------------------

>

> I think you've misread chantelle. I don't recall

> anyone condoning these things on this thread.

> No-one has said anything about doing drink & drugs

> regularly being inevitable or normal at 14, or

> saying that 14 year olds at unsupervised parties

> is acceptable

silly woman, i'm not looking for an argument but Fuschia said "it's not such a big deal being at a party with dope and alcohol at 14" and Moos said "it's inevitable that she will be going to parties with alcohol and possibly drugs at her age."

regardless, I did not mean to suggest you or anyone else doesn't care what is happening with their children.

incidentally, I was curious about the statistics and found that in 2008, something like 80% of 11-15 year olds had tried alcohol at least once. About 27% of 14 year olds had tried cannabis or any other drug, including things like solvents and poppers, at least once.

Personally I think 14 is too young for these things but there you go.

[Moos]

Apologies all if my post was unclear or has caused arguments. I do believe that it's very likely that a child of 14 will find herself at parties where drugs or alcohol are available. I don't believe it's inevitable that she would drink or take drugs. I shouldn't speak for Fuschia, but I think she meant the same thing - that to come across alcohol is inevitable, the question is whether to choose to drink.

[The Nappy Lady]

I agree Moos - I remember people drinking alcohol & smoking behind the bike sheds en route to youth club when I was about 13/14 years old (in the 80's). I think my childhood was pretty average, OK school, mix of friends, mostly middle class. Don't remember drugs being around, at least to my knowledge, but I was about 20 when raves/taking ecstasy etc. all kicked off, and I think prior to that drugs were maybe not around so much/younger people were less aware of them????

I think it is better to prepare yourself for the chance children may be exposed to this stuff, and to have had conversations with them about it all. If it doesn't happen then great, but at least they may be armed with some reasons as to why they don't want to try 'X' if you've discussed it with them, rather than giving in to peer pressure.

I think the statistics speak for themselves, though it is very depressing reading and sort of makes me want to scoop my girls up and take them to live on an island somewhere (which is not the answer I know).

[womanofdulwich]

I do think that when your teenagers are 14 they usually go to a party of a friend of the same age and it is in their family home and parents are there- or they might hire a hall but would still be there to keep an eye on things. My teenagers were never at a party where they were offered alcohol or drugs at that age. Slightly different if it is a wedding/ elder siblings 18th birthday.

I really do not think being at a party where there is alcohol or drugs is inevitable AT ALL.

By the time they are 16 it is much harder to avoid but I agree with Chantelle on this. There is a huge difference between being 14 and being 16 - or if you are lucky 18. They are children and we should not encourage them to grow up in that way.It is just not necessary - everything will come in due course but we should not, for example, supply them with our own alcohol to take to parties( of course this does happen).

Sorry I am ranting - I just feel these are the best years of their lives when they can do so much why spend it with hangovers/ in accident and emergency/ puking up on bus shelters or my spare bed!

[Moos]

WOD, very happy to acknowledge your greater experience on this. My thoughts were largely based on my own teenagerhood (I did go to bars aged 14, occasionally drank and smoked but was too terrified to get into drugs) and those of my friends - and I'd say mine was a fairly sheltered, well-brought-up teenagerhood. My perception - but more experienced parents are contradicting this and as I said I'm happy to take their word for it - is that children are yet more exposed to alcohol and drugs today than children of my generation were.

In case I'm coming across as Nico Teen here, I guess I'll have to see how it goes when my kids get there, but I don't think I'd give them booze for parties aged 14.

[The Nappy Lady]

I don't think anyone is endorsing drinking, or access to alcohol/drugs at that age, they are just saying it is possible that they may come across these things at a party, or elsewhere. Maybe inevitable is the wrong word.

I hope it never happens at a party under my roof, but equally I can't imagine searching every 14 year old girl who comes into my house for a sleepover with my daughter etc. I don't think you can rely on controlling the situations and environments they get into, better to try to educate your child on what is right and wrong, and 'why' doing this stuff is wrong/dangerous etc. Sometimes the only way a young person learns is to find out for themselves. I well remember a girl who was top of the class, and considered to be a 'goody goody' getting so drunk she ended up in casualty on a drip. Horrible, but I never, ever saw her drunk again. Again, I'm not endorsing this, and really hope I never see, or know a 14 year old who ends up in that kind of mess.

[Fuschia]

Moos Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

- I shouldn't speak for Fuschia, but I

> think she meant the same thing - that to come

> across alcohol is inevitable

I meant it will happen and it doesn't mean your child is moving in totally tghe wrong circles... it's rife, And was when I was a teenager too...