Consultation with patients. (Halal food served unlabelled)

[Tarot]

Recently Guys and St Thomases hospital have admitted to giving patients halal meat, in their meals without them knowing.I think this is wrong. How the animals are killed, is inhumane. Why have they done this? We are supposed to be an educated society.So why are they buying meat that has been butchered in this way. Its Barbaric and primitive. The Kebab meat is also killed this way. Its a bit much when hospitals go to these lengths and not consult their patients.

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree with you in the sense that the way meat is slaughtered is a moral issue for many people and also Halal and Kosher slaughter are directly attributed to religions that most people in this country don't follow.

There was a phone in talk show on this on bbc london radio not so long ago and one of the points made was that Halal and Kosher meat was often cheaper to buy and process as it has less regulation around it..... I don't know if that is true or not, but to not tell people seems wrong.

On the issue of animal welfare, I'm not sure death in an abattoir is always humane either, and we all know about chicken rearing. When we buy any meat we never know for sure (unless we are buying specifically sourced free range) just how humanely the animal has been kept or killed.

[SeanMacGabhann]

The number of people who get upset about halal meat, and yet also complain that Hugh fearnley thingy is being patronising when he tries to show conditions in typical chicken farms is very telling

[PeckhamRose]

What are you saying Sean? That the two people who posted above are hypocrites?

A doc on halal meat slaughter the other day said that in actual fact even though the animal is facing in some direction and the slaughterer is a muslim, most of the animals are stunned first anyway. Just goes to show how ph@*&ing ridiculous religion is. Oh, and nearly all lambs slaughtered in New Zealand is halal!

Crazy.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I don't think Tarot and DJKQ are making quite the same point at all, and that DJKQ's post is touches on some of the same points I'm making

I wonder if Tarot spends as much time wondering if other foodstuffs consumed are free-range or organisations who don't label their food as such. If a chicken served by, say, Kings is battery OR Halal, should they be clear about which or should they ONLY say if it's Halal? And if the latter, why?

If a bad practice is followed because it's religious, why is that worse than bad practice performed out of expediency? You could argue that religious people have an "excuse" but us non-religious types are worse because we have no excuse for the way we treat animals

[Tarot]

Sean. I have,nt heard of Hugh Fearnly. I do care about all cruelty to animals and humans. As does the R.S.P.C.A. I do buy free range eggs. People should be informed on all aspects of what they are eating. There are other religions that will find this practice offensive. In Kings they still give out salt sachets in the intensive care wards for instance, along with the blood pressure pills. I think D.J.K. makes fair and non sarcastic points. Unlike some.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Sarcastic? Not sure where that is

Buying free range eggs is fine as far as it goes but it doesn't answer any if the questions i posed. Do kings supply only free range eggs? Or do they label them as battery? How does the battery production of chickens and eggs differ morally from halal

[Tarot]

You mentioned chickens and free range in the first place. I wasnt even talking about morals. Religions are mostly very primitive and crippling to the advancement to the human race. Have them if you must but dont try and convert everyone else. are you Moslim Sean? You seem very touchy on the subject,.

[woofmarkthedog]

Awful & not a tracksuit in sight ?

W**F

[Huguenot]

If you've got an issue with halal meat tarot, then it's an argument you need to take to government, not hospitals.

Whilst halal meat is legal the hospital is fulfilling it's obligations.

If you have a special dietary requirement, be it vegetarianism or anti-halal, it's your own responsibility to communicate these to the caterers.

I also note that your attack is on 'halal' but not on 'kosher', which uses the same methods. Is there a particular reason for you to stoke anti-muslim sentiment?

[woofmarkthedog]

Tarot

You are another troll aren't you ?

( please say yes, I'd hate to think you are a real human being at large in the community )

W**F

[SeanMacGabhann]

But oh Tarot, you so are

if you call anything

" Barbaric and primitive"

that is a moral judgment. And if you make that judgement you need to be on solid ground. IN this instance, secular ground is no better than religion in it's treatment of animals. So by all means have an attack on Islamic methods if you like but you are being specific about animal husbandry

My suspicion is that you are hiding behind animal welfare to have an attack on muslims. Am I a muslim? You must be basically blind if you have missed even a fraction of my anti-religious (of all denomination) posts on here. But you havent started a religious thread - you have started a thread about barbaric treatment of animals

[Tarot]

This is not an arguement ,but a subject that was on ceefax recently. When given a menu in hospital it stated cleraly if you needed Kosher food or not. This meat was covertly given apparently. Its people like you who stoke anti-sentiment to muslims. You have to talk about certain things in life, you cant have the softly softly approach,and not mention any thing Islamic. Its very condescending to think they would be upset about other people objecting about this practice in hospitals. Im sure they would like not to have pork sneaked into their diet either. Its people like you who dont want Christmas trees up in the streets .Its people like you that start wars.Hugehnut Give muslims some intelligence, they dont need you as a spokesman Your an agnostic anyway"!.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you... A proper mentalist

[SeanMacGabhann]

I mean - pick the bones out of this lot (just in case it gets deleted by Tarot)

"This is not an arguement ,but a subject that was on ceefax recently. When given a menu in hospital it stated cleraly if you needed Kosher food or not. This meat was covertly given apparently. Its people like you who stoke anti-sentiment to muslims. You have to talk about certain things in life, you cant have the softly softly approach,and not mention any thing Islamic. Its very condescending to think they would be upset about other people objecting about this practice in hospitals. Im sure they would like not to have pork sneaked into their diet either. Its people like you who dont want Christmas trees up in the streets .Its people like you that start wars.Hugehnut Give muslims some intelligence, they dont need you as a spokesman Your an agnostic anyway"!."

[????]

...mozza

[Tarot]

Sean for a monitor you very biased. You and Hugehnut,are known as the thought police, Both of you are mentalist, talking down to most people who dont share you views. blathering most of the time. I wont buy you a drink when I see you,thats for sure.

[SeanMacGabhann]

A little insight there,into the kind of pms that do the rounds

How am I showing bias tarot? You come on here spouting all manner of Ill-thought out prejudice. When challenged you cry wolf. I have asked several questions of you and you answer none of them. You just pour venom my way. I start wars do i ??

[Tarot]

Not you who starts war. I said Hugehnut. Its you that is spouting off as usual, insulting me at every oppotunity.,the subject as been in the papers, dont you read them, or does all your information come from Hugehnut. By the way wearing black suits is also out of date.

[nashoi]

Come off it MacGabhan, everybody really knows the Irish hate Christmas trees and have started many wars over it. It's just not a subject we can openly discuss in PC gone mad broken Britain.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Come on love, not EVERY opportunity. There are loads of times I ignore you.

I read this story from various news story. It's worth talking about but its not a story about Islam versus anybody. Why do you think huguenot and i share anything? As for black suits you shouldn't get all your info from *bob*s posts I haven't worn a black suit for many a year

On the subject of pass?, can i point you towards paganism and tarot reading?

[????]

Hugenot and Sean are well known sportswear addicts, tarot wouldn't buy them a driink on that basis alone

[SeanMacGabhann]

You couldn't make it up, nashoi!!

[SeanMacGabhann]

I favor baseball shirts quids.. Huguenot is more of a cricket man

[Huguenot]

I think there's a perfectly valid debate to be had about the ethical and legal role of halal or kosher meat in the UK.

It's worth bearing in mind that these practices were initially laid down because this was the most humane and disease free option available at the time. So, far from being barbaric this practice was incredibly civilized.

There is undoubtedly a margin call on the level of cruelty involved. Many people contend that the rapid blood loss causes the animal to lose consciousness almost instantly.

However, if you're happy to raise animals to eat them, then you're already on dodgy ethical ground, so playing some 'holier than thou' card is a bit daft. I'm a meat-eater, but don't pretend to justify it.

The question is whether you want to alienate a huge proportion of the population at home and abroad over such an unclear issue.

Clearly if you're already prejudiced, lack empathy and enjoy creating conflict, alienating so many people may seem like a bright idea.