Moving to SE London - co-ed non-demoninational state secondary schools?

[scarlettbanks]

Hi everyone,

Was hoping for some local advice please. Need to work out where to move, and only a month to decide!

I've lived in Shepherds Bush for 6 happy years, but want to move to SE London - partly because my civil service job is relocating to Canary Wharf :( However, I really don't know the area and so any local knowledge would be much much appreciated! Here's a description of my dream location, pretty much in order of importance, and I would be so so grateful if anyone has any suggestions re where we might start looking:

- Good state primary and secondary schools. My son will be starting primary school in 2017, hence the urgency to move now! Would very much like an area that has both good primary and secondary, so that kids can stay with peer group when they move to secondary. Also, would like to avoid single sex and religious schools. From what I've found online, it looks like Bessemer Primary and Charter School Secondary (Herne Hill), Haberdashers Aske?s primary and secondary school (Brockley), John Ball Primary and Thomas Tallis secondary (Blackheath), and Rockmount/Paxton and Harris City Academy (Crystal Palace) are schools that might fit these criteria.

So Herne Hill, Brockley, Blackheath, and Crystal Palace might be my possible areas...

Anyone have any preferances between these schools? Charter School seems possibly the best. Some online say Harris City a bit rough. Difficult to judge on exam results when the pupils who attend are from different backgrounds of course.

And can anyone describe the difference between the areas? Herne Hill more hippy, and fun being close to Brixton? Seems appealing to me. Brockley a bit posher and boring, with less greenery, but very pleasant? Blackheath not so good for schools, since locals send them private, and high street has more chains etc, and maybe less of a community feel as a result of bigger high street? Crystal Palace more lively, with more shops/restaurants, and more fun for future teenager, but a bit less 'nice' than the others, including less nice housing? I've deduced all of these sweeping generalisations from Google (haven't had a chance to visit any areas yet!) so please correct my prejudices!

- Nice community vibe, with friendly neighbours and community spirit. From what I can see, this probably describes most of SE London, includin the 4 places listed above. Prefer smallish High Streets with lots of independent shops, where you get to know your shopkeepers etc, rather than big high streets with Fat Faces and Giraffes (which seems to be how Blackheath is).

- Decent commute to Canary Wharf, if possible. Can take public transport or cycle, or a bit of both.

- A local French community would be an added bonus!

- We have quite a decent budget, and I think can afford in any of the above areas. Would you say Herne Hill most expensive of the above, or Blackheath or Brockley maybe?

Any thoughts on any of the above would be most appreciated! Or if any other areas/schools come to mind. Sorry to ask so many questions, but I'm reaching panic-mode, since have 1-month to find house and move there, before primray school deadlines, and don't know the area at all!

[Jules-and-Boo]

Charter School is very good - you need to live close by though as it's on distance and is popular.

Herne Hill/ East Duwlich etc are all really close - HH is quieter, which didn't suit us.

Personally I think Brixton is a nightmare if you have kids (lots of fun when we were going out!). It's really busy.

Think of transport links, think of schools. Shopping is irrelevant as you can get it delivered or just jump on the bus to go anywhere.

[Goodliz]

I'd just say that if you are thinking of Charter, which is meant to be a fantastic school, you need to live VERY VERY close to it. Less than a mile away - I'd probably say half to three quarters of a mile away. It takes lots of children from Dulwich Village and North Dulwich. East Dulwich is possibly too far away. This catchment is reflected in the nearby house prices which are very high as so many people relocate near the school to get their kids a place there. However if you are moving from Shepherds Bush that may not be a problem :-)

Kingsdale isn't on your list but again that is meant to be fantastic too but it is not catchment based. Its a lottery system and seems to be a mysterious one at that (someone will probably put me right on that!). It is in West Dulwich toward Gypsy Hill and is mixed.

I don't know much about Brockley or blackheath so can't comment much on those areas apart from them having a reputation for being nice places to live. but I certainly wouldn't describe Herne Hill as Hippy (I know that's not your description - it is off the net). I think it is quite posh and very well to do! It has nice shops and Brockwell Park is great for kids and walks/ runs etc. There's also the Lido.

Good luck with your move and school search. All the areas you mention are lovely and the schools you mention are great from what I have heard from others.

[midivydale]

I would say Herne Hill is more "naice" than trendy/hip. All areas that you list are great to be honest. I am partial to Brockley as my son goes to school there and I love the community feel. International, diverse and inclusive

[scarlettbanks]

That's really helpful - thanks everyone!

Ok, so Herne Hill isn't hippy - time to put my tie dyes away! :(

I'll try to find some Charter School catchment areas online, to help work out how close we'd need to live. I just read they are building a new CHarter School in East Dulwich, so I guess this may be an option too (then could try for one of the good primary schools in East Dulwich like Harris, Heber, or Goodrich - although again I know you bneed to live very close).

Yup, I agree, the attraction of Brixton was more for us, not the kids, and maybe for the kids once they are teenagers.

And thanks Goodliz - I shall check out Kingsdale too, and their mysterious admissions systems. OUr priority is trying to find a house where we can stay for 20+ years (or forever), and so being near a state secondary school (without a mysterios admissions policy) is by far the most important criteria, but maybe Kingsdale won't be that mysterios after all!

Midivydale - does your son go to the Haberdashers Aske? primary or secondary, or somewhere else? Do you live there, or does he 'commute' to school?

[Cora]

I would find somewhere where you are in the catchments for Bessemer and Charter...but also don't know if you realise but a new Charter is opening on the old hospital site..it has had its first intake at a temporary site but will move in in a couple of years...

[redjam]

Obviously I'm biased, but I do think East Dulwich itself ticks all your boxes - lots of well-loved primaries; the new Charter secondary opening in the heart of ED in 2018 (plus other good options like Kingsdale); lovely community vibe with loads of quirky independent shops, restaurants, market, cinema, swimming pool etc; and if our primary school is anything to go by, lots of French people living locally. The downside is the public transport, which is a bit crap. I think you'd have to get a bus over to Denmark Hill to get the Overground to Canary Wharf from here, but that's a very easy journey (buses are regular).

[enjoy]

Herne Hill gets my vote every time.

Commute links are good, serveral busses going into town as well (in case train are not running or night time).

Great parks, lovely community, village feel without the boredom.

Nasty flightpath though ...

[Pugwash]

Most of the primary schools serving E Dulwich are over subscribed and you will take pot luck as to which one is offered.

Haberdashers Aske secondary - may require an entry exam ( or they did when my daughter applied for there - 1000 applicants for 100 places)

I have heard that Harris in Crystal Palace is good - but the friends who have daughters there both live in the Crystal Palace area so not sure of catchment area.

[????]

You don't bring up budget so I am assuming it doesn't matter much? Herne Hill is posher and more expensive and not as lively as East Dulwich or Peckham (although liveliness has improved recently and of course it's nearer Brixton - but I'm not keen on Brixton anymore being above 30 and Peckham's hipper anyway :)). Though If you want Charter then you're basically ruling out East Dulwich - which actually ticks most of your boxes and is better value and strong community - and a short hop up to Forest Hill for the Ginger Line to connect to Jubilee. But we'll all tend to stick up for where we live I guess.

[????]

PS Forgot, but I think the New Charter school in East Dulwich will be well established by the the time your kids get to secondary whereas it's currently offsite

[redjam]

Pugwash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Most of the primary schools serving E Dulwich are

> over subscribed and you will take pot luck as to

> which one is offered.

> Haberdashers Aske secondary - may require an

> entry exam ( or they did when my daughter applied

> for there - 1000 applicants for 100 places)

>

> I have heard that Harris in Crystal Palace is good

> - but the friends who have daughters there both

> live in the Crystal Palace area so not sure of

> catchment area.

Well, all decent schools are effectively oversubscribed as parents can put down up to six choices on their forms, but they still only take up one place! So the OP shouldn't be put off by the idea that the schools are oversubscribed round here: unless it's a new school or one that's failing, it will be. If you live reasonably near to a given primary school, you should get in. Plus I think Habs Aske secondary is banded entry (if I remember rightly), so it's not like it's a grammar where only the 'top' children get in. Harris Crystal Palace is indeed good but places are allocated via a lottery system within a specified catchment area (again if I remember rightly) so you'd need to live nearby to have a good chance. Basically all the secondary schools have their own admissions criteria and it's all a bit of a nightmare trying to unravel it, but most of the mixed state ones round here are good or outstanding. Primary admissions are generally more straightforward and just done on distance.

[scarlettbanks]

Great - thanks again everyone - this is really really helpful!

I was interested in what "????" says, that "Herne Hill is posher and more expensive and not as lively as East Dulwich or Peckham". I didn't realise this (although I knew that Dulwich village was posh, and perhaps a bit lacking in atmosphere, I thought Herne Hill had different vibe) - this makes East Dulwich sound much more appealing to us, as we are in early 30s, attempting to still maintain some degree of trendiness, and might feel a bit less comfortable in an area if most neighbours were older than us with better jobs etc! We are lucky that we can probably afford house prices in all these areas (money from rich grandfather, if I'm to be honest).

I had ruled out East Dulwich because of no state coed secondary school, but now that you've told me about the New Charter school coming to East Dulwich I may well go for this. We could live (very) near Harris Primary, Heber Primary, or Goodrich Primary, and hope that this will be near enough the new ED Charter School to get us in (7 years from now), or I guess we could move closer then if not.

Thanks redjam - I agree with what you say about all good state schools being oversubscribed, and that this shouldn't be barrier to aiming to get in (as long as you do your research, check they don't have weird admissions policy, and then move very very close).

Flight paths worse in Herne Hill than East Dulwich, or much the same? Sounds like the buses (e.g. into central London) may be better for Herne Hill.

Interesting that Peckham now cooler than Brixton for those in early 30s - I'm sure this is highly contested!

Thanks again everyone - much much appreciated! My parents are going to babysit on Tuesday, and I'm going to tour round ED and the other areas that have been mentioned to see them for myself!

[????]

If budget isn't an issue then on average Housing Stock is better & bigger in Herne Hill than East Dulwich - Brixton's a bit tourist trendy whereas Peckham's propa hipster innit

[midivydale]

Go and have a look as you say and see what you like. Brockley "centre" isnt as picture pretty as some of the other places mind and perhpas isnt the kind of place where you would buy if budget wasnt an issue. (I probably would, am biased though. I Noticed today that there are at least 3 french families in my ds's class in reception. I can ask one of them to PM you if you like? Will you rent first near your school (since time is a factor?).

[Passiflora]

I do think that some of your requirements come over as quite elitist, especially 'difficult to judge on exam results when the pupils who attend are from different backgrounds of course'.

[????]

Passiflora Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I do think that some of your requirements come

> over as quite elitist, especially 'difficult to

> judge on exam results when the pupils who attend

> are from different backgrounds of course'.

So what?

[Kes]

Haberdahser's secondary doesn't have exams or banding anymore it's just done on distance, although some kids get in on music place which does require an assessment of some kind. They also give priority to kids from their primary schools.

Telegraph hill in between Brockley and Nunhead seems very nice and close to Habs and it's new primary school.

If you've not done so already take a look at the various facebook groups for the various areas as the EDF will of course have lots of people who prefer ED.

[Saffron]

Not sure what you mean by Brockley not being green? ...Hilly Fields Park, Ladywell Park and playing fields on the Ravensbourne River, Blythe Hill Park, Telegraph Hill Park... and slightly further afield, the excellent Mayow Park in Forest Hill. The transport links in Brockley/Lewisham are excellent to visit both the Horniman Gardens and Greenwich Park, as well as central London. (Also I would definetly not describe Brockley as posh on any sense. Boring? There's a ton of stuff happening in SE4!)

There is an excellent French community in SE4, just ask the French fellow who runs the French bakery in Ladywell. :)

Gordonbrock Primary School was just ranked 2nd highest in Lewisham Borough, and made the national top 250. Beecroft, Stillness, and John Stainer are all good primaries too, just to name a few. However, similar to Southwark, many catchment areas are now very small in SE4/SE13.

Secondaries seem to have less choice, but so far everyone I know seems to be happy with their choices.

Victorian properties in SE4/SE13 are generally spacious (by London standards). SE23 (Forest Hill) is nice too.

xx

[hpsaucey]

East dulwich certainly not trendy if that's what you're after but pleasant. Better transport links the se15 side of the tracks towards peckham rye but still near ed if that's your bag? Most primaries good. Go wander around and go with your gut.

[vez]

Herne Hill is not really ideal for getting to Canary Wharf, neither is ED. Commutingwise you would be better off on the Overground.

[nylonmeals]

This is the latest primary school SAT results - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/school-sat-tables-results-for-every-london-state-primary-a3421116.html -- useful once you start to find the areas that you like.

For what it's worth, we're in Herne Hill and love it (moved from East Dulwich) Brockwell Park with the lido is lovely and the velodrome on Burbage Road both great for kids. We like that you can walk/bus easily to the tube in Brixton. For Canary Wharf, its a quick bus ride to Denmark Hill and then the Overground.

Kids on our street go to a mix of Bessemer Grange, Corpus Christi (catholic), St Saviours (C of E)and Jessops and Charter for secondary (or private) But the reality is that all the areas you listed are great areas and the only way you'll work out what works for you is to spend a proper amount of time exploring them

[scareyt]

Worth noting that if you hav not moved in time for the application deadline, you can apply late and will be added to the waiting list based on distance, not date of application.

We moved from Anerley to Herne Hill and love it. It's very quiet but if you're looking to stay put for 20+ years that could well grow on you! Easy to get into London and easy to get to East Dulwich for pubs & restaurants.

If you're mostly going to commute by bike I would go for Herne hill. Denmark Hill station can be grim in the mornings though so if you're going to commute by train in peak rush hour you might be better off living further out so you can get on the train easily. You can always get a seat on the train in Crystal Palace which is great. But it's a long journey in by bus or bike from there.

[scarlettbanks]

Amazing - I just wanted to thank everyone again for all their help! It's been incredibly helpful getting all this advice, and really helped us narrow down some areas. We visiting ED, Herne Hill, and Brockley, and to be honest really liked all three. We are still looking for a flat to rent in one of these areas, but are getting close! Thanks to Kes, Saffron, and midivydale for bigging up Brockley - we really liked the feel of the place when we visited. Saffron - I agree with you re Brockley having nice green parks - I suppose I was looking at Telegraph Hill (only small parks within 10 mins walk) comparing to Herne Hill (with even bigger parks on your doorstep). Glad to hear it isn't too posh or boring! Thanks again!

[midivydale]

Thought you might :)

All areas are lovely, you cant go wrong. Best of luck and shout if you need any pointers!