Transport in south london

[Monkey]

I used the trains from PR for the first time this year last week. Was surprised to see trains still terminating at South Bermondsey. And when I arrived at LB, the tube was closed because of over crowding. All this added 30mns to my usual commute via Brixton. For me it's Brixton Tube all the way.

[NewWave]

The transport links to our part of london are lamentable.Trains always packed, often late or cancelled and no decent direct bus route into the Marble arch oxford st area aside from the 12 which doesn't go down Lordship lane or the 176 which USED to run to oxford circus many moons ago but now stops in the back of Tottenham Court road somewhere.

I work in the West End (Bond ST/Oxford st) and the commute is making my life pretty miserable.

When I lived North of the river I had a choice of buses that would get me near home, and reliable trains.

I actually live in Forest Hill but sometimes travel to Denmark Hill or East Dulwich on overground or southern to go to the gym after work.

The inter-change at Canada Water is a deathtrap crush to change to the Jubilee line. And when the overground isn't standing room only late at night (I work shifts and often get out of work at 10.30pm) you have to doge aggressive beggars wandering through the carrages.

I love the area but can no longer afford to move back over the river.

TBH the dire transport links make me really peed off.

And don't get me started about the often complete lack of trains at weekends, and zero on Boxing day when some of us (i.e.;lowly paid shop workers) have no choice but to work.

[BrandNewGuy]

But these transport links (or lack of them) are nothing new. I was quite aware of the travel options when I moved here 25 years ago. Apart from the Southern Rail / unions nonsense over the last two summers, the level of service on these links (rail and bus) is either pretty much the same or better. And as has been said several times before, if ED was on the tube, the area would lose its unique qualities and would look like Balham ? give me Lordship Lane etc any day.

[DulwichLondoner]

Getting honest feedback from people who have bought a property in an area is always difficult, if not impossible, because a very large % of these people will typically be all too keen in convincing themselves and you (but mostly themselves) that wherever they have bought is the best place on Earth. I have lost count of the number of times I have been told ridiculous bull**** like:

I can get from Bromley to Victoria in 10 minutes.

No, you can't. Unless you have your own helicopter.

I used to live in South Ken, but, trust me, Peckham is better.

Ah, so the fact that you can no longer afford to rent, let alone, buy, north of the river, is a mere irrelevant coincidence?

Etc. etc etc.

Now, I am not saying I want to get the hell out of here because there is no tube. I knew there was no tube when I moved here. What I didn't know is that the existing services could ever become so incredibly poor. And, btw, what is so terrible about Balham? The high streets seem quite comparable. Organic butcher? Check. Cinema? Check? Fishmonger? Check (the very same one, in fact). Baby clothes shop? Check (the very same one, in fact: Jojo maman). Franco Manca? Check. Bluebird bakery? Check. It's not like we are comparing a middle class neighbourhood with Mayfair, or a more hipster area with a more family-friendly one. I think parks in Dulwich are nicer, but toddlers don't care - they just want somewhere to run and play - and, tbh, slightly less nice parks is a low price to pay to get reliable connections.

Finally, NIMBYs are one of the main obstacles to progress in this country. The argument against the tube in Dulwich is the same one that was used against the railways a few centuries ago. We don't want those horrible modern contraptions spoiling the unique character of our beautiful countryside! Etc. etc. etc.

[BrandNewGuy]

We're never going to get the tube nor were we ever going to, so there's no possibility of NIMBYism.

[iceicebaby]

Trains just about ran on time from ED 10 years ago. Now there's a million extra people in London. The development of London bridge station didn't give any extra platforms. There's 3 separate train companies running into it with no extra capacity and Southern are the least priority. Our narrow roads won't get any quieter. Options? Reinstated line from Crystal Palace high level towards Nunhead (narrowly avoiding flats built on the site!); Trams running up arteries, Brixton hill, Peckham rye, Denmark hill, into London; Train line connecting directly ED to Thameslink at Loughborough Junc. Theres already much development on that line and as it runs north south without many junctions has the potential to run a very frequent, almost constant service (like the 2 min Victoria line). The last one is most achievable. Now who has ?2bil?!

[DulwichLondoner]

London becoming more populated explains overcrowding on public transport.

It does not explain leaves on the tracks and other laughable excuses; again: how does the rest of the world handle leaves?

It does not explain having 1 train per hour for two consecutive summers.

It does not explain all the cancellation and delays.

In short, it explains almost nothing about the poor service others and I have been complaining about.

While on one hand it is obvious that areas with more frequent trains, e.g. Balham, will be less affected than Dulwich, purely because you never have to wait as long for the next train, I also have the feeling that the Dulwich line is one that Southern has decided it can and will sacrifice when things get tough. For example, the Southern trains from Streatham Hill into Victoria are not more frequent than from Dulwich to London Bridge, yet, if I remember correctly, Streatham residents have never had to endure the same kind of misery we in Dulwcih did.

[jimlad48]

I find now that its actually faster to run home from where I work to near Denmark Hill than it is to take the train.

I am also very worried about the physical condition of the station, which is dangerously overcrowded - the recent ticket office rennovation was a missed opportunity to install extra entrances, and the ticket gates caused huge levels of overcrowding as people jostle to get in and out of the station. It is only a matter of time before a serious incident happens there I fear.

[Nigello]

To be fair, leaves on the line has not been a problem - at least in the laughably big way it was - for the past couple of years.

I think the Overground options has really helped but a big boost would be a station at C Green, to help take the strain and thereby make bus travel less unpleasant along the Walworth Road.

We won't get a Tube station so it really is a case of being savvy with what we've got - delaying or bring forward travel times, walking more, being mindful that buses do have upstairs and roomy interiors and not hogging the lower deck. (It sounds trivial but speedy boarding can help cut delays when you add all the wasted minutes up.)

[edcam]

Yes, the "remodelling" of DH station is actually scandalous. It really is an accident waiting to happen. One day something awful will happen there. It cost a vast fortune and there is no way that money was spent on either the design or the structure. "Designed" by someone who has probably never used a rail station.

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I find now that its actually faster to run home

> from where I work to near Denmark Hill than it is

> to take the train.

>

> I am also very worried about the physical

> condition of the station, which is dangerously

> overcrowded - the recent ticket office rennovation

> was a missed opportunity to install extra

> entrances, and the ticket gates caused huge levels

> of overcrowding as people jostle to get in and out

> of the station. It is only a matter of time before

> a serious incident happens there I fear.

[iceicebaby]

I think the southern network is being deliberately run into the ground before being sold to the lowest bidder (tfl?) There's no good reason to cancel as many trains as they do on the whole network. A station at Camberwell is a great idea for train and road passengers and could be implemented easily. Haven't heard anything since this though...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/abandoned-camberwell-station-could-be-reopened-after-100-years-to-solve-travel-misery-a3492246.html%3famp

[NewWave]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Getting honest feedback from people who have

> bought a property in an area is always difficult,

> if not impossible, because a very large % of these

> people will typically be all too keen in

> convincing themselves and you (but mostly

> themselves) that wherever they have bought is the

> best place on Earth. I have lost count of the

> number of times I have been told ridiculous

> bull**** like:

>

> I can get from Bromley to Victoria in 10 minutes.

> No, you can't. Unless you have your own

> helicopter.

>

> I used to live in South Ken, but, trust me,

> Peckham is better.

> Ah, so the fact that you can no longer afford to

> rent, let alone, buy, north of the river, is a

> mere irrelevant coincidence?

>

> Etc. etc etc.

>

> Now, I am not saying I want to get the hell out of

> here because there is no tube. I knew there was no

> tube when I moved here. What I didn't know is that

> the existing services could ever become so

> incredibly poor. And, btw, what is so terrible

> about Balham? The high streets seem quite

> comparable. Organic butcher? Check. Cinema? Check?

> Fishmonger? Check (the very same one, in fact).

> Baby clothes shop? Check (the very same one, in

> fact: Jojo maman). Franco Manca? Check. Bluebird

> bakery? Check. It's not like we are comparing a

> middle class neighbourhood with Mayfair, or a more

> hipster area with a more family-friendly one. I

> think parks in Dulwich are nicer, but toddlers

> don't care - they just want somewhere to run and

> play - and, tbh, slightly less nice parks is a low

> price to pay to get reliable connections.

>

> Finally, NIMBYs are one of the main obstacles to

> progress in this country. The argument against the

> tube in Dulwich is the same one that was used

> against the railways a few centuries ago. We don't

> want those horrible modern contraptions spoiling

> the unique character of our beautiful countryside!

> Etc. etc. etc.

I moved to the area because of the London overground-I moved roughly the same time it got extended to our neck of the woods-I didn't move in the hope of making financial gain from the improved transport links, I moved here because I could get to work on public transport...that has become more and more problematic in the past year.

I don't hope for an underground here...All I ask is a RELIABLE service that is not dangerously overcrowded.

And a bus-route that actually really does link se23 &SE22 to the western edge of the west end.

[Earl Aelfheah]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Getting honest feedback from people who have

> bought a property in an area is always difficult,

> if not impossible, because a very large % of these

> people will typically be all too keen in

> convincing themselves and you (but mostly

> themselves) that wherever they have bought is the

> best place on Earth. I have lost count of the

> number of times I have been told ridiculous

> bull**** like:

>

> I can get from Bromley to Victoria in 10 minutes.

This.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Camberwell and Peckham should definitely have been part of the future Bakerloo line extension. Also, the diversion of the northern line into the Singapore on Thames / money laundering cul-de-sac of Nine elms / Battersea haven't helped. SE London is so poorly served compared to the rest of London and every new transport project is either a bung to property developers or seems to be aimed at already well served areas.

Mind you, it's good to see Ealing getting another 2 stations with Crossrail - I think that'll bring them into double figures.

[DulwichLondoner]

Today there is "major disruption between East Croydon and Brighton till at least 4pm", which affects all those going to Gatwick, too.

Yesterday the whole family was meant to go home from London Bridge around 9pm; our train was cancelled, but luckily we realised in time and stayed indoors waiting for the next train. Had we had to wait almost half an hour in the freezing cold with the little one, it wouldn't have been pleasant.

Two days ago I was near Bond street around 9pm and wanted to take the Jubilee to London bridge, then the train to ED. I checked train times before taking the tube; my train got cancelled, so I decided to take the bus from Marble Arch to Victoria, then the train to Denmark Hill.

Just sayin'...

[cactus]

Yep, delays and cancellations all morning on Southern.

Yesterday it took me an hour to get from Goose Green to Kennington on the bus.

In complete agreement DulwichLondoner.

[DulwichLondoner]

We have decided we have had enough and want to move. It?s a shame, a real shame, because we both used to love the area. The real question is whether we should try to sell and buy at the same time, or sell, rent for a while, and then buy. Depending on what happens to the UK economy and the housing market, renting for a while might end up costing the same or less. Or not ? where is a crystal ball when you need one?

[nxjen]

?Mind you, it's good to see Ealing getting another 2 stations with Crossrail - I think that'll bring them into double figures.?

That?s to make it easier to escape from Ealing.

[Earl Aelfheah]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We have decided we have had enough and want to

> move. It?s a shame, a real shame, because we both

> used to love the area. The real question is

> whether we should try to sell and buy at the same

> time, or sell, rent for a while, and then buy.

> Depending on what happens to the UK economy and

> the housing market, renting for a while might end

> up costing the same or less. Or not ? where is a

> crystal ball when you need one?

An estate agent recently told me that ED was a lot less popular than it used to be, mainly due to the deteriorating transport situation.

[BrandNewGuy]

More affordable, then. Yay!

[DulwichFox]

Why do people bang on about poor transport links in East Dulwich.

There are excellent Transport Links here.

Basic Breakdown of transport links

12 Peckham - Camberwell - Elephant & Castle - Westminster - Oxford Circus West End

37 Brixton - Clapham Junction - Putney

37 Peckham

40 Camberwell - Elephant & Castle - London Bridge - (The City Fenchurch Street - Aldgate

63 Peckham - Elephant & Castle - Farringdon Station - Kings Cross (Trains to the North)

63 Crystal Palace

176 Camberwell - Elephant & Castle - Waterloo - Trafalgar Square - West End

176 Forest Hill Station - Penge

185 Camberwell - Oval - Vauxhall - Victoria

185 Forest Hill Station - Catford - Lewisham

Trains,

East Dulwich - London Bridge -The City

Peckham Rye - London Bridge - The City

Denmark Hill - Blackfriars - The City

Forest Hill - East Croydon - Gatwick

What do people want? Private Heliport facilities - Hovercrafts -

You may have to walk 500 Metres. Well that is tough.

DulwichFox

[DulwichLondoner]

I am genuinely not sure if you are being sarcastic, or if you haven't read even half of the posts and the experiences summarised above.

[rendelharris]

I agree with Fox for once - and he's even left out the ED - Wimbledon, PR & DH to Clapham Junction options which open up lots of access to SW and W London. I'm not disbelieving or belittling anyone's stories but I've lived many places around SE London and felt a lot worse off for transport elsewhere - Brixton, for example.

Plus of course it wouldn't be me if I didn't add the fabulous new cycle routes making it easy to reach the City and beyond in 20-30 mins (yes, I know not everyone can or wants to cycle, but it is now a safe segregated option).

[DulwichLondoner]

I don't doubt that there are other places in SE London with even worse connections, but so what? I bet many of those places are also cheaper than ED. We should be happy waiting half an hour in the freezing cold when they cancel our trains and it takes us over an hour to get from Victoria to Denmark Hill because, oh, the poor people of Nowhere-on-sea have worse connections to central London than us?

[nxjen]

DL - if you want to move away from ED then do so, you don?t need to win an argument about it or need the Forum?s permission. ?Goddamn it Hotlips, resign your commission?