First cafe bans children under five, East Dulwich next?

[Beej]

This will probably get lounged, but I spotted this in the morning press today - Organic Kitchen in Essex bans children under five from entering the building because its owner said 'prams the size of Essex' are spoiling it for other customers. All I could think about was could East Dulwich do with a child free zone too? 😜

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4036742/Organic-cafe-bans-children-five-prams-size-Essex-youngsters-running-riot-spoil-customers.html

P.S apologies for citing the daily fail, it's in all the press today but their pictures were better :)

[DuncanW]

I thought one place in ED tried that already...

[Jeremy]

I have no problem with this. Would rather know upfront, rather than spend money in a place we're not welcome. I'm sure there are other cafes to go to.

Could East Dulwich do with a child-free cafe? Not sure. It might be OK on the weekends, but during the week you'd be eliminating a huge chunk of potential customers.

Many of the pubs round here have child-free areas, so it's not as if there are no child-free options at all.

[Saffron]

There is (or was?) a cafe near Telegraph Hill that had a 'Quiet Morning'. I haven't been since my daughter was very small, I can't remember which one it is/was.

Their approach was not to say that one type of person is spoiling something for another. They simply had a sign saying when the quiet morning was, and that boisterous patrons/noisy children should come on other days. On the quiet morning, babes in arms and quiet children were fine. Not everyone with a pram or small child is noisy. Some very shy children prefer the company of quiet adults, and certainly a sleeping infant disturbs no one. Plus not everyone uses a pram, and plenty of prams fold, even the bulky ones.

I understand that some shops don't have room for more than a couple of buggies, but an outright ban on children during the day in a cafe seems to me like cutting off the nose to spite the face. I guess if they have the clients to support it, that's their business not mine. It just seems weird to me to lump all parents and children into the same stereotype. But hey, I guess it got them free publicity. Ho hum.

[KidKruger]

I think it's down to the establishment.

In somewhere like ED a business may be taking a serious risk by banning kids, but it's their choice.

I think some people could use a place guaranteed to have no tantrums /kids running around.

Especially pubs, especially after tea-time.

[jimlad48]

I would happily go to an establishment where little people are not welcome. I am a non parent and find noisy children, particularly babies and toddlersincredibly irritating and loud and therefore choose not to patronise 'family friendly' cafes so as to avoid them where possible. If I could go somewhere where lack of little people was 100% guaranteed, then that would be nirvana for me.

I am not anti children, far from it, but not everyone feels comfortable in public places where little people are present, particularly if they are (often for very good reason) being noisy or poorly behaved. Plenty of places are very child friendly, so its nice to feel us childless folk have somewhere to go too!

[LondonMix]

I think having a large buggy in London, particularly in an area like this with small shops etc is both foolish and a bit inconsiderate. However, in my experience most of the cafes in ED have well behaved children and most of the parents have small compact urban buggies like the Bugaboo Bee and the iCandy Rasberry.

The notable exceptions are / were: The Duck Egg, the Actress, the Herne Tavern (haven't been in 6 years so could be different now) and the Picture House Cafe (sometimes). All of these establishments can be really unappealing as ithey've created an atmosphere of anything goes when it comes to kids running around.

I don't know how shops control it but somehow in certain places, no matter how many kids there are it doesn't feel like a creche.

[Jeremy]

LM - kids are only allowed in one side at The Actress (same applies to Victoria Inn), so not really 'anything goes'.

[Louisa]

Tbf the mothers and prams brigade only go to the posh type cafes dotted around. Most of the builders cafs' are child free and that suits me fine. The only issue I really have is when these parents start using pubs like they're the local cr?che for their little darlings. A pub is an adult environment on the whole, and other than a few designated family friendly pubs I believe they should be for the exclusive use of adults only. Don't need screaming kids around when you're trying to enjoy a drink, with prams blocking whole areas.

Louisa.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I thought kids were banned from 'Le Chandelier'. It is no more of course.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Peeps on the forum make a big deal about kids 'spoiling it for everyone'. But I have to say that it's not my experience of going out in ED.

[LondonMix]

I mean that anything goes on that side of the Actress. As someone with kids, I actually prefer to be in places that don't let kids run around as it makes it harder to control your own children when they can see other kids acting like they are in a playground. Its also dangerous for all involved. I've actually gone there to watch the Rugby with my husband and seen kids scooting around in doors on their scooters. Even in a kids only section, I find that wildly in appropriate and the staff should have pulled the parents up on it. Its not always the case, but it somehow always feels a bit wilder in there than in the Great Exhibition for example which is also kid friendly but generates a totally different atmosphere.

[Pugwash]

Obviously needs a common sense approach - small cafes have very limited space for cumbersome buggies which cannot be folded. Strollers can generally be folded up assuming the child will be sitting on laps/chair.

Having had a parent in a wheelchair - we frequently had difficulty in accessing cafes/restaurants - Mum could transfer from wheelchair to a chair so w/c could be folded, but we did experience some 'discrimination' by pram owners when they were asked if they could move the pram to allow us access to the extent that Mum got so upset at the remarks made she refused to go out.

If you read the notices in buses, wheelchair users have priority over prams and that pram owners could be asked to fold prams down .

[Jules-and-Boo]

I think there are plenty of places that are quiet. I don't recall ever being anywhere that I've been bothered or annoyed by children.

Oh, Pizza Express in the village - but that was to be expected as it's a kids magnet and I don't think grown ups go there without kids, do they?

If a business wants to adopt that model, I'm all for it. It's their business, after all.

[astrid83]

The new cafe Spinach (same location as La Chandelier) is quiet and no children roaming around as I remember....

I've got two toddlers, both boys, and we have a double buggy and only ever go to the park cafe in Peckham Rye or Cafe G, and sit outside. And we have 10 minutes max, as my boys can't sit still any longer than that...

[LondonMix]

That's horrible Pugwash! Also, nothing makes me angrier than parents who refuse or make a huff about folding up prams so a wheelchair user can access the designated space. Its the disabled who campaigned for years to get that space created and there would be nothing there without their efforts. When I was a kid, all prams had to be folded as standard if you wanted to use a bus

Pugwash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Obviously needs a common sense approach - small

> cafes have very limited space for cumbersome

> buggies which cannot be folded. Strollers can

> generally be folded up assuming the child will be

> sitting on laps/chair.

>

> Having had a parent in a wheelchair - we

> frequently had difficulty in accessing

> cafes/restaurants - Mum could transfer from

> wheelchair to a chair so w/c could be folded, but

> we did experience some 'discrimination' by pram

> owners when they were asked if they could move the

> pram to allow us access to the extent that Mum got

> so upset at the remarks made she refused to go

> out.

>

> If you read the notices in buses, wheelchair users

> have priority over prams and that pram owners

> could be asked to fold prams down .

[healey]

Old people moaning about kids. Listen to yourselves.

[jimlad48]

I dont think anyone is moaning about kids, they are just saying that while its great that some places are child friendly, its equally great some places arent child friendly. Long may that continue.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's great when places are unfriendly.

[Louisa]

It's great when others don't force their life choices e.g. Having kids, onto others in a public setting in which you are paying for the use of a service e.g. Buying food, drinks etc. Think it's more than reasonable myself.

Louisa.

[Alan Medic]

You never had a kid as a life choice Louisa? Be thankful your parents did.

[LondonMix]

That's a ridiculous statement. Children are some inconvenience on society. They have every right to be out in public as any other member of society. Not having children is a lifestyle choice for some which is absolutely fine but people who choose not to have children should remember their pensions and healthcare will be paid for by the very children they wish weren't around...

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's great when others don't force their life

> choices e.g. Having kids, onto others in a public

> setting in which you are paying for the use of a

> service e.g. Buying food, drinks etc. Think it's

> more than reasonable myself.

>

> Louisa.

[Louisa]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That's a ridiculous statement. Children are some

> inconvenience on society. They have every right

> to be out in public as any other member of

> society. Not having children is a lifestyle

> choice for some which is absolutely fine but

> people who choose not to have children should

> remember their pensions and healthcare will be

> paid for by the very children they wish weren't

> around...

>

>

Well behaved children have every right to be out and about enjoying themselves, but ill mannered parents who take over whole eating and more especially DRINKING establishments, should visit venues specifically designed for their offspring to enjoy. Having a mummies club in a pub when adults are drinking is just hugely inappropriate and also selfish on other hostelry customers who wish to spend a peaceful period supping on alcoholic beverages in a adult only environment. And please don't play the pensions and healthcare card, it has nothing to do with this discussion LM.

Louisa.

[Alan Medic]

Are there any DRINKING establishments any more? Is it not more like 'how can we make a profit' establishments? Not that I think parents shouldn't control their kids in a place often frequented by adults without kids.

[Loz]

Having children is like choosing to be a police officer. Society needs police officers, but it's fortunate that not everyone wants to be one.

And people who point out that police officers could maybe, occasionally, behave a little better shouldn't be told to shut up just because they chose not to be a police officer.