Residents Parking Permits

[cate]

I live within 5 minutes walk of ED station and I don't have any problems parking on my street. I do not want a CPZ.

Edited to say I am surprised there aren't any parking problems, but there aren't! I think the closer you are to LL and Northcross it will be shoppers and business owners especially estate agents as they have more cars than the average business. In a few streets near the station it will be commuters. Derwent, Elsie, Copleston, St. Francis Rd, and one end of Melbourne Grove, which also has a lot of dropped kerbs.

[Loz]

James,

I suppose the crux of the matter is: are the parking problems caused by commuters? If so, a Herne Hill system may work. If not, it will just be an expense and a PITA for no gain at all.

In other words: do we know what the problem is?

[Penguin68]

James

1. Herne Hill has far fewer pubs, restaurants, shops then LL - hence less of a general attractor (including for people working there) for visitors

2. HH station supports trains to Victoria, Blackfriars, Thameslink (when CPZ was created) hence a much bigger commuter attractor than ED station.

3. Residential streets away from HH station somewhat less congested/ parked up - so less backwards pressure once CPZ was set up to extend it - and by the way far more off street parking in immediate streets around HH station.

4. As said above - actual causes of parking problems less clear - if commuters small element (which I suspect) HH solution won't work here.

5. Any CPZ introduction is always thin end of the wedge - once the principle is conceded then more and more bites out of our freedom will be taken.

Paranoid? me? no - just experienced

[james84]

I live on one of those streets and whilst I cant say that it is definitely commuters I cant see who else it can be.

It is incredibly hard to get a parking space on any of them between 8.30am and 6.30pm however after this time there is always plenty of spaces, which would suggest to me that there are ample spaces to park for residents, as this is when everyone tends to be at home and there is never a problem. It is in the daytime that problems occur.

I work in the day and get the train to work so it does not really effect me, but there have been occasions where I have had the day off, popped out in the car and then cant park anywhere again for ages due to the volume of parked cars. I had a week off recently and encountered this problem pretty much every day, but was amazed at how by 6.30 there were loads of spaces again.

I can only see it as being commuters as you wouldn't park that far up from Lordship Lane you would park on one of the side streets, and there arent really enough businesses in that triangle, certainly not estate agents that would use those roads to park in, again they all tend to park in the roads directly off Lordhsip Lane (where most of them are located).

The weekends can also be quite bad, not because of the shopping, but people use those streets to park whilst they go to church at the Dulwich Grove U.R.C. However this only tends to last one to two hours on a saturday and Sunday.

[cate]

Perhaps the trade-off to living so close to the station is having problems parking near your home. There is an estate agent opposite ED station, and two at the Goose Green roundabout.

[james84]

If you noticed, I wasnt complaining Cate, I was merely pointing out the facts, as I sais it doesnt really effect me so im not that bothered, but can see how it effects other people in the local area.

The estate agents opposite the station park behind the premisies in desiganted parking, and goose green was not included in any of the roads that were mentioned earlier, and i was refering more to the high concentration of agents further down Lordship Lane.

[cate]

I didn't say you were complaining james84! I was offering an observation on what you had written. It could be that the two estate agents near the roundabout park in roads closer to the station - who knows. Another agent on LL is going to add to the problem. Perhaps local businesses with more than 1 car should pay to park.

[James Barber]

According to train station usage figures - the latest I can find on the web date from financial year 08/09:

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1529

Herne Hill station had 2,686,386 entries and exits whereas East Dulwich station 'only' had 1,515,942.

So realistically it would only take a tiny proportion of those exits and entries to drive and park nearby to cause a significant problem. Which is what residents who want to use their cars during Mon-Fri or have visitors who drive are reporting.

[TJ]

I really hand on heart can say in my opinion, Southwark - stick your CPZ up your arse and long may it stay there.

[Loz]

May I propose a simple test?

1) Take a survey of car regs at 10am

2) Again at 5pm on the same day

3) Again at 9pm on the same day

Repeat over a number of days (for statistical accuracy). The number of cars that are there at 1 AND 2, but NOT 3, as a percentage of the total number of cars the street holds should start to give you an idea of the problem. Not perfect, but a start.

[cate]

And then what?

[calculus]

So if permits were introduced, would there be a cap on how many cars you can get one for per household / business? What I'm really asking is whether all 14 of the Foxton's minis would be able to get permits or whether we could get a few of them crushed...?:)-D

[cate]

With households, it's a lower price for the first vehicle, then it rises for the second. Don't know about a third etc. though.

[sophiesofa]

Everywhere I have lived where there's been a CPZ has been a nightmare for things like vistor permits etc having to go during office hours to a building 2 bus rides away just to pick up a visitor permit. So please no to a CPZ.

[cate]

Kensington and Chelsea don't even provide visitor permits! Camden's are stupidly expensive, like ?20 a day.

[Loz]

cate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And then what?

Well, at least then we would have some idea of what the problem is... or isn't. At the moment, some people are bandying about possible solutions without really knowing what the exam question is.

[James Barber]

Southwark visitor permits are ?1.20 each.

Seems to be two arguments. Full on CPZ that nearly everyone things just would not be suitable for the area. CPZ lite a la Herne Hill that appears 50:50 whether it would be suitable BUT people near the station seem much more favourable for and those further away not so interested.

Or have I missed something?

[Loz]

Yes... option 3. Do nothing as the cure is worse than the disease.

[James Barber]

Hi Loz,

Do you live on Melbourne, Derwent, Elsie or Tintagel?

Do you park a car and commute by train?

I ask as people's responses seem very different depending upon the answers to these two questions.

[Loz]

> Do you live on Melbourne, Derwent, Elsie or Tintagel?

No, but I think SophieSofa does, as well as others on this thread. I do live 5 mins from ED station though (not on those roads).

> Do you park a car and commute by train?

No. See above.

As I said James - are you sure of the exam question yet? Do you *know* that commuting is the problem?

[woodleigh]

James

First of all it's good to see a local councillor taking part in this discussion, so thanks.

However, in reply to your question "have I missed something", I do think that the suggestion of a Herne-Hill type system has one major drawback, which so far as I can see has not been picked up on yet. This goes back to your earlier comment that "the Herne Hill type scheme operating for 1 or 2 hours a day for streets within 5 mins walk of East Dulwich railway station would surely help residents on those streets".

I have no doubt that it will help residents on those streets, but what about residents of streets just outside the 5-minute restricted zone? I live just outside what is likely to be the restricted zone, but still within feasible walking distance of the station. Parking in my street is currently just about ok (although it has definitely got busier in the last 4 years since I have lived here). Although I sympathise with those who live closer to the station, putting in a restricted zone will simply move the problem a few streets away - it is bonkers to think that commuters will stop driving to the station, they will simply be forced to park slightly further away then they currently do.

I realise I have a vested interest here (as no doubt many others do, whether they agree with parking restriction or not). However, this solution would simply a case of moving the problem from one group of residents to another - not getting rid of the problem. For that reason, I dont see that it has any merit to it.

Another point, and in my view an important one, echoes the comments made by others above, which is that the lack of parking restrictions in East Dulwich is something that considerably adds to the pleasantness of the area as a place to live. I think we should be careful what we start because the introduction of even mild parking restrictions will almost certainly be the start of a slippery slope to the kind of parking hell that plagues places like Brixton, Clapham and Fulham (speaking from personal experience) where neither residents nor visitors gain anything from parking restrictions except costly tickets and constant arguments with parking attendants.

[kford]

I do wonder if a decent, well-lit bike park would encourage a few to ride-and-ride.

Like this one in Lambeth:

[Wino]

Agree with woodleigh.

BTW. I took a post lunch stroll up Matham Grove and down Melbourne Grove this afternoon.

Matham Grove 'top end' joining East Dulwich Grove = 2 free spaces at 3.01pm.

Melbourne Grove 2 free spaces and potential for 3 with better parking at 3.09pm.

MG's problem is that a quarter/third? is restricted or no parking at all at the Grove Vale end. Maybe this is needed, maybe not, but controlled parking won't make a difference to this end of the road. The other 'problem' is that approx 10 properties or so have off street parking with dropped curbs. This means even less available space on the street. Again, controlled parking will make no difference here. Interestingly, with at least 7-8 of these off street parking properties the space was empty. So the owners were out/did not need the space and yet the street space could not be used by others.

I have commented in the past when this issue rears its head. There are advantages to living next to a station and there are disadvantages. Ditto, living near a bustling street market, a thriving bar 'scene', a football ground, a park, a whatever. You make your choices with what you think is most important to you and what you can put up with.

I very rarely get to park outside my property, sometimes not even in the same road. But it never takes long for a space to become free and I put up with it as I prefer it to the alternative; unattractive road markings, extra street furniture, parking wallahs, incorrect ticketing, time and energy disputing said tickets, even more bureaucracy to deal with in our day to day lives.

[nashoi]

As someone who lives on Melbourne Grove and drives everyday I would just like to add my vote to the naysayers. I agree with Penguin68, it will be the thin end of the wedge. No matter how careful you think you are, or how careful you think your visitors will be, you will get ticketed (legally or otherwise) and then will come the threads on here complaining of the injustice of it all. Wino puts it well enough in his final paragraph, whatever the current level of inconvenience it's better than the alternative.

[trizza]

For what it's worth, I agree with the naysayers. I have recently moved to ED from London Bridge and have previously lived in Fulham. Both areas have very controlled parking restrictions.

One of the wonderful things about ED is the freedom to park where you need to without restriction.

As commented by Woodleigh, if you impose parking restrictions near the station you will move the problem. Before long you will have residents in other streets away from the station demanding parking restrictions (because parking will get worse in these streets). It's the thin edge of the wedge. If there is to be a consultation it should take into account the views of residents outside the CPZ who could be adversely impacted by it.

I am afraid that if you choose to live right next to a station you should reap the rewards but also take on the associated issues with more restricted parking.

I am also far from convinced there is a real need for a CPZ, given the comments made on here.