The Modern Labour Party

[????]

To be honest if I'd only had a binary choice I'd have voted Tory rather than Labour at the last election as it was the Lib Dems got my vote and I'm happy with the coalition so far. I'm done with tribalism per se as I had enough of that in my life a long, long time ago and most of the stereotypes, bile and prejudice that I have seen since the election have come from the unions and Labour and their supporters (including a fair bit on here) not all. I, like most people, want a decent, functioning, healthy society and think that economic competency underpins that - I can't see that with a Labour Party led by someone owned by the Unions. I'm genyuinely willing to listen Ed to see if that won't be the case but I suspect that I won't be convinced, I think David M would have had more of a chance and would have been more convincing and genuienly more inclusive. The assumption that voting Labour gives you some sort of piuos moral high ground is idiocy and "I don't vote for me" is one the most sanctomonious post straight from the Guardian I've seen on here Sean - do you want a sainthood?. Thinking that all people who didn't vote for the awful shower who just got the boot are completly motivated by self is tribal idiocy and insulting.

I'm quite liking coalition in the dire circumstances we are in for all sorts of reasons.

[david_carnell]

The comparisons of Ed Miliband with Michael Foot and depictions of him as a left wing candidate are, frankly, laughable. If the Labour Party wanted to be truly radical, why did Diane Abbott go out in the first round?

Ed is slightly, AND I mean slightly, to the left of his brother but both are firmly within the right of the Party. They served in Blair and Brown cabinets for heavens sake. Whilst Ed appealed to a broad church during the election I think he'll have little trouble attracting the support of the swing voter.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Look, I'll say it again - " "I don't vote for me" is only posted as an intended mirror of Mick's (and he's not alone) view of Labour as a party that don't do anything for them. I'm not after anything other than wondering what people who say "nothing in it for me if I vote Labour" are after

[SeanMacGabhann]

postscript - I should say that I'm not trying to argue with many of the points you are making either quids - I agree with many of them (apart from the deficit/speed of cuts thing). ANd as I said my support of Labur isn't unconditional and nor do I think they have the answer to everything/most things

It's just anytime someone says "Labour don't do anything for me" I think it kind of misses the point. I can see how my retort is sanctimonious but given some of the nonsense posted about Labour and Miliband in the last couple of days I;m surprised it even registered tbh

[katie1997]

I have met Ed Miliband who has a far greater understanding of current energy issues than that tw@t, Chris Huhne.

To be completely superficial, he is actually quite attractive in real life, I love the way he speaks ... he'd get my vote anyday.

[Mick Mac]

david_carnell Wrote:

>

> Or have you just swallowed a media depiction that

> bears little resemblence to the real Ed Miliband.

> Do some research before making ludicrous

> judgements like "unelectable" or "back to the

> wilderness". It does no one justice.

Back to the wilderness is my prediction for Labour DC, and many will look to make predictions after a big appoitment - if you think it will work out well for Labour then good luck to you, you may be right, lets see.

But there is nothing wrong with making predictions and I'm not sure what you mean by "It does noone justice".

[Mick Mac]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Look, I'll say it again - " "I don't vote for me"

> is only posted as an intended mirror of Mick's

> (and he's not alone) view of Labour as a party

> that don't do anything for them. I'm not after

> anything other than wondering what people who say

> "nothing in it for me if I vote Labour" are after

Sean - the reference to "childish level of judgement and discourse" was patronising and superior to say the least. And disrespectful to other people on the forum.

That aside - I dont think I ever said I vote for me. I vote for the party of correction and a correction was needed long before 1997 and hence it came to be.

Likewise a correction was needed this year and so it came to be.

[Mick Mac]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The comparisons of Ed Miliband with Michael Foot

> and depictions of him as a left wing candidate

> are, frankly, laughable.

Noone compared Michael Foot and Ed Miliband - Ed Miliband was compared to Ian Duncan Smith - being a leader with no gravitas, controlled from within - hence he is already today on the back foot saying "I'm my own man" over and over.

[Loz]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> {As an aside - My wife told her friend that Ed had

> won yesterday - and the response was "oh is he the

> ugly one?" That won't help his case. These things

> do play a part.]

My missus said something similar - but was referring to David M. Or, as she put it, "the one with the sprayed on hair".

[Loz]

katie1997 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have met Ed Miliband who has a far greater

> understanding of current energy issues than that

> tw@t, Chris Huhne.

>

> To be completely superficial, he is actually quite

> attractive in real life, I love the way he speaks

> ... he'd get my vote anyday.

Do you? I think there is something cartoon-ish about it. During his acceptance speech I kept getting the feeling he was going to end it with a "the-adda-the-adda... that's all folks!"

[SeanMacGabhann]

And I am the patronising one? That's pretty breathtaking Mick

some of the quote posted on this thread

"Back to left wing opposition wilderness

the electorate will not vote for a party led by someone who sounds retarded

Noone is going to vote for that ugly twot.

He strikes me as the sort of guy who was the last to be picked to play football in the playground."

and me calling them childish is superior?

[silverfox]

"He strikes me as the sort of guy who was the last to be picked to play football in the playground."

It was a metaphor old chap. Let me explain. Such a person can hardly be expected to inspire the confidence of a nation.

Regards,

Silverfox

[SeanMacGabhann]

I know it was a metaphor ? but?s one from the school playground and reflects on the person judging

Surely we are a better and more nuanced judge of character than we were at 15? Why exactly do you think he is so deficient in qualities that you can apply the metaphor in question?

[silverfox]

To be serious for a moment I haven't made my mind up about his appointment or the man himself.

There's a lot going on in the Labour Party and he may or may not be the best person for the job. I'm no longer sure I understand what the Labour Party stands for. The old industrial base of working class voters it drew support from has changed if not disappeared. I never really understood what Blair's New Labour was about either. Who does the Labour party claim to represent these days?

Ed Milliband is a highly intelligent man. He comes from an impeccable left-wing background given his father's fame. The family's immigrant background may have given them the motivation to strive to get on in a tolerant democratic country. There is nothing to suggest he is divorced from the reality of Britain's problems nor that he can't be fair minded in helping to frame policies that help all sections of society.

It remains to be seen whether he can shape the Labour Party so it is clear what it stands for, who it claims to represent and whether it will appeal to those disaffected Liberal voters who feel they have been sold down the river. In short, whether it becomes a real alternative to the government that people may actually vote for in the confidence that it will provide real change and a fair society.

[katie1997]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> katie1997 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I have met Ed Miliband who has a far greater

> > understanding of current energy issues than

> that

> > tw@t, Chris Huhne.

> >

> > To be completely superficial, he is actually

> quite

> > attractive in real life, I love the way he

> speaks

> > ... he'd get my vote anyday.

>

> Do you? I think there is something cartoon-ish

> about it. During his acceptance speech I kept

> getting the feeling he was going to end it with a

> "the-adda-the-adda... that's all folks!"

I thought his acceptance speech was quite good although now you mention it ... yes, I can imagine him doing that :)

I think he will be electable Prime Minister material and so a good thing for the Labour Party.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Silverfox ? some good points there. I thought New Labour?s first term was broadly where people wanted it to be when they elected it

I hear quid?s point about the British people being fairly centrist but with a sense of fair play ? taking huge chunks out of waiting lists in the NHS, sorting out schoolrooms, introducing minimum wage ? exactly the sort of thing I wasn?t to see more of

After that first term tho it all went fairly wrong ? Ed strikes me as more of that ambition rather than anything to do with the 70s

As for union power ? I?m undecided. Part of me thinks that with jobs and money going to India and China, the role of unions will only become more important as it? unlikely the unregulated labour market over there can remain as it is today for much longer ? unions will get a foothold (and if you were one of those employees would you not want that).

[Mick Mac]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >

> And I am the patronising one? That's pretty

> breathtaking Mick

>

> some of the quote posted on this thread

>

> "Back to left wing opposition wilderness

>

> the electorate will not vote for a party led by

> someone who sounds retarded

>

> Noone is going to vote for that ugly twot.

>

> He strikes me as the sort of guy who was the last

> to be picked to play football in the playground."

>

> and me calling them childish is superior?

I'll take responsibility for the "Ugly" jibe - lets call it the Ann Widdecombe factor.

[Brendan]

I remember David Mitchell saying on one of those panel show things that it is a sad reflection on us that peoples? beef with Ann Widdecombe is that she is not so easy on the eye and not that she is in fact horrible and dangerous person who has actively campaigned against gay rights and opposes action on climate change.

[SeanMacGabhann]

And look how many people have warmed to her now!

I?ve always had a sneaking admiration for Anne tbh? I don?t agree with her but her old-fashiondness and unshakeable conviction is something to behold

anyway, back to the Labour party..

[SeanMacGabhann]

cross posted with Bren

[dita-on-tees]

I dont give a flying what my politician look like. Theresa May might wear some great shoes and interesting ensembles but she still suffers from Joycean streams of policy drivel and is ultimately making ugly decisions.

I still have great hopes for Ed as I think he is both an ideologue and a moderniser. His campaign within the Labour Party was incredibly positive and personal. I get the sense he has a strong belief in where the party needs to go and I think it helps that he was not in Parliament when the decision to invade Iraq was taken. But the modern labour party is not without challenges - as expressed by Silver fox, who does it represent, the erosion of the traditional powerbase coupled with increasing apathy in the ranks does not help. Naive perhaps, but i would like to think that the modern labour party doesnt represent a particular class or group but a way of thinking.

[Mick Mac]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/09/25/article-1315286-0B5A2079000005DC-502_634x223.jpg

[Mick Mac]

Ed Miliband has been steadily emerging from his older brother's shadow since entering the Commons in 2005, four years after David, writes Glen Owen.

And yesterday he finally overcame the five-year age gap - and his sibling's assumption of seniority.

Born on Christmas Eve 1969, Ed is the son of the celebrated Marxist Ralph Miliband and Marion Kozak, both Polish Jewish immigrants who fled to Britain from Brussels during the Second World War, setting up

home in North London's fashionable Primrose Hill.

Ed followed David to Haverstock Comprehensive School in Chalk Farm, before doing the same subject,

philosophy, politics and economics, at the same Oxford college, Corpus Christi.

There he established a more sociable reputation than his studious sibling, reviewing films and plays on a local radio station and appearing more at ease in

the company of women.

After finishing his master's degree at the London School of Economics, Ed was briefly a TV journalist before following his brother into politics.

Critically, he made an early decision about where to sit in the Blair/Brown divide and by 1994, while David was advising Tony Blair, Ed was a researcher to disgruntled Shadow Chancellor Gordon Brown.

In his recent memoirs, Blair admitted that he had made energetic efforts to pluck Ed from Brown's clutches, but he would not be swayed.

After Labour's 1997 Election victory, Ed was made one of the Chancellor's special advisers - earning him the title of 'one of the country's most powerful

unelected officials'.

As one of the few senior Labour figures liked by both warring wings of the party he was welcomed into No 10 as Brown's emissary, and dubbed 'the

ambassador from Planet F***', as the only one of the Brown team who did not swear at Blairites.

By 2004 he had become chairman of the Treasury's

Council of Economic Advisers and, at Brown's insistence, helped to organise Labour's 2005

Election campaign.

He entered the Commons as MP for Doncaster North that year. He played a key role in brokering Blair's agreement to stand down in favour of Brown, and when his boss entered No 10 in 2007 Ed won a place in the Cabinet, aged 37; firstly as Cabinet Office Minister and then as Energy Secretary.

With his Foreign Secretary brother, they were the first

siblings to sit in Cabinet together since 1938.

Friends say Ed has more of a life outside politics than his brother. While David is largely unloved among Labour MPs - he has a reputation for aloofness - Ed is seen as warm and conciliatory, with 'brains, charm and acumen'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315244/Oh-brother-Red-Ed-Miliband-beats-sibling-David-Labours-new-leader.html#ixzz10jO702dP

[Mick Mac]

"One last thought on Ed Miliband. Expect to be told over and over again in the weeks and months ahead that he was the trade unions? choice, that he owes his job to the brothers, that he?s in the pocket of organised labour. Conservative high command will ? subtly ? take great pains to depict him as Red Ed, the militants? friend. None of this will come as a surprise to Mr M or his aides: it?s basic politics. The interest is in how he deals with it. Will he take pride in his union backers (?I am not ashamed of the support of hard-working trade unionists, Mr Speaker?). Will he confront them, Blair style? Will he seek to fund Labour with money from non-union sources? How will he react to significant strike action?2

PS: It?s started. ToryPressHQ has just tweeted this: ?Without the union votes David Miliband would have beaten #RedEd by 53.4% to 46.6%?

Telegraph.co.uk

[SeanMacGabhann]

Is the Tory party really in any position to say who would have won what ?if only x hadn?t had so many votes?