The Modern Labour Party

[RosieH]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Or to try and second guess the entire electorate.

Err, Boris?

Come on David, we're not the French - we're not a nation of natural left-wingers. Blair only got in because he appealed to nice middle class Mail readers. If we can just get Ed a few stints on Have I Got News For You and Lorraine, we might be laughing.

[matthew123]

I just watched a clip of Ed Milliband's acceptance speech on the BBC website, and just looking at the facial expressions of his elder brother David and Ed Balls I think this is a huge own goal by Labour which is a great shame. Instead of being held to account by a plausible Labour government elect the Conservatives will now feel they have been given a new mandate to now run roughshod over the weak without risk of being kicked out of Downing Street in 5 years time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11412031

[Mick Mac]

Noone is going to vote for that ugly twot.

Left wing politics is history anyway. Its all over for Labour.

Pretty boys with middle right politics are the way forward.

[RosieH]

And that's exactly what depresses the fuck out of me Mick.

Bring back Michael Foot.

[Mick Mac]

Michael Foot was an ideoligist, obviously super intelligent.

The Kinnock speech was the speech of a someone who knew that Labour needed to appeal in order to have any say. Today was a step back to listening to the left wing idealists who will moan away at each years conference and sound like a bunch of whingers.

Ed Milliband v David Cameron - no contest I would imagine.

But my days of supporting Labour are I think behind me anyway, when you are younger you may feel the world is against you and Labour will help.

[david_carnell]

matthew123 Wrote:

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> I suspect the Tories are cracking open the

> champagne bottles tonight over Ed Milliband

> becoming Labour leader. Instinctively the

> electorate will not vote for a party led by

> someone who sounds retarded and associated with

> the Unions. For me I doubt he will still be leader

> come the next general election.

Oh FFS! Are you being this much of an arse deliberately?

Have you considered for one moment that any noises eminating from Tory HQ about "how they are thrilled they are Ed won" and that "David was the danger to them" is nothing but spin?

And you don't think the electorate will vote for some "associated with the unions" Matthew? I presume this is because he received the backing of union leaders and also the highest number of votes from their members? Do you know who else received the same backing in 1994? Tony Blair. I seem to remember him being vaguely successful in three elections....

And how will the Tories feel this gives them a mandate to do anything? This election was voted for only by Labour members.

You're spouting utter twaddle based on your own convictions rather than knowledge or insight.

[Mick Mac]

I think Matt is right. The Torys will be over the moon. Ed Milliband is Labour's Ian Duncan Smith.

Tony Blair knew how to work the Unions. They went with him on a wave of Labour optimism which is now lacking, the Unions are not going to help Labour become electable.

[silverfox]

david_carnell why are you being so defensive?

I must admit I thought David M would walk it - so what do I know.

I personally think this is a disaster for labour. He strikes me as the sort of guy who was the last to be picked to play football in the playground. I can't see the big boys of Obama or Putin/Medvedev being unduly worried. Nor that mad mullah from Iran with the nuclear bombs either.

Here comes PC Labour, windmills on your chimneys, save the planet taxes - God help us.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I don't think David is being defensive

Depressed at the childish level of judgement and discourse yes. But not defensive.

The talk of people not voting for retards and ugly twats is enough to have me reaching for ... Something. And Nice to see re truism of people getting more righting as they get older hold true

Guess what. I don't vote labour for me. Shocking isn't it

[RosieH]

I was in a right bad mood last night and feeling depressed about the state of our nation and some of the comments above only reinforced that.

However, the sun's shining, Ed Miliband was great (if careful) on Andrew Marr this morning. The notion that he's a retard is, in itself, retarded. Neither is he ugly. I do agree that he maybe needs a little coaching in the oleaginous ways the British public seem to demand from their politicians, but he has years in opposition to hone his soundbite.

Christ, Cameron doesn't have Blair's charisma and is a massive-foreheaded oily gimp, but he got in, and in comparison Ed Miliband is an intellectual giant and adonis.

I feel altogether optimistic.

[Brendan]

If people are really that idiotic that they think it matters David Cameron definitely wins at being ugly and talking like a twt.

[matthew123]

David that is my opinion, it's not based on what anyone else has said, I just feel that Labour are putting in a 3 legged donkey to run in the Grand National... and I am not sure he will complete the course.

The message his election sends out to the electorate is that the Labour Party is now led by a man who won it on the Union vote because he certainly did not win it on getting the most votes from party members or fellow Labour MPs.

My gut instinct is that Labour would not have won the next Election anyway regardless of leader. So perhaps having their modern day Michael Foot in for a few years will pacify the hardliners after the Blair/Brown years. Maybe it's for the best anyway in regard the future aspirations of his older brother to become Prime Minister.

BTW, I said Ed sounded retarded rather than was..

[RosieH]

Since Ed Miliband was declared leader, 726 new people have joined Labour.

[Mick Mac]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> I don't think David is being defensive

>

> Depressed at the childish level of judgement and

> discourse yes. But not defensive.

>

> The talk of people not voting for retards and ugly

> @#$%& is enough to have me reaching for ...

> Something. And Nice to see re truism of people

> getting more righting as they get older hold true

>

> Guess what. I don't vote labour for me. Shocking

> isnt it

LOL Sean - If that is not the most patronising post ever...

Kinnock realised that you have to play the game to succeed. Smith and Blair too. Labour yesterday decided that it wanted to go back to its roots. They do this at a time when the electorate has already told them at the ballot box that their policies of tax and spend and a huge uncontrollable public sector are not what is needed. The Labour Party was originally born out of a need that existed at the time and has reoccurred from time to time since then. Its not what the country needs now.

In response to a lost election, Labour vote in, a left wing candidate with outdated idealogical views closely linked to the Unions.

Labour is a party that appeals to (amongst others) young militants and idealogists who think fair is a good word that will make everybody happy. Some people grow up and understand the real world and understand motivation and reward.

You may vote for Labour Sean to make you feel a better person or because "its the right thing for a Guarian reader to do" but it may often be a bad thing for the country. It can't always be right to vote Labour.

You probably know at the end of the day you have the safety net of a more realistic electorate that will ensure you don't have to endure the current Labour party in government.

And after yesterday's poor decision, I'd say you wont have to worry about Labour being in power for some time.

Labour had its day in the sun, but it will have to have another Kinnock style speech in a decades time to right the wrongs of a left wing approach and make them electable again.

The media are already calling him "Red Ed" - with that, its goodbye Labour. I say that as a former Labour voter who attended Labour fundraising events etc. But society and economies shift, each party needs to adapt regularly, any party these times needs to find centre ground to regain power and a shift to the left after the electorate already rejected their current stance is a grave error of judgement.

Goodbye Labour - let me know when they are next in power Sean. I'll bring the zimmerframe to the party.

{As an aside - My wife told her friend that Ed had won yesterday - and the response was "oh is he the ugly one?" That won't help his case. These things do play a part.]

[Mick Mac]

RosieH Wrote:

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> Since Ed Miliband was declared leader, 726 new

> people have joined Labour.

So are you happy that he won Rosie?

[RosieH]

Yes.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I don't do it unconditionally Mick, nor do undo it for the reasons you attribute.

[RosieH]

LOL Sean - If that is not the most patronising post ever...

erm, surely this tops it, Mick...

Labour is a party that appeals to (amongst others) young militants and idealogists who think fair is a good word that will make everybody happy. Some people grow up and understand the real world and understand motivation and reward.

[dita-on-tees]

oh to be a young militant again... sadly Im in my thirties and I work for a big bad bank (in the real world sadly). But I am a member of the Labour Party and I voted for Ed. For me Ed appears to have a genuine commitment to improving social equality. I think he will be a passionate opposition leader and hopefully an antidote to a government who seem hellbent on helping those people who probably dont need that much help.

[Mick Mac]

RosieH Wrote:

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> LOL Sean - If that is not the most patronising

> post ever...

>

> erm, surely this tops it, Mick...

>

> Labour is a party that appeals to (amongst others)

> young militants and idealogists who think fair is

> a good word that will make everybody happy. Some

> people grow up and understand the real world and

> understand motivation and reward.

Well - you know Rosie - you have to fight your corner when so publically patronised. :)

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm not sure just how I patronised you either Mick. Just reiterated what you said and said why I feel differently

[Mick Mac]

I suspect I know exactly what you were inferring Sean.

And as for "I don't vote for Labour for me" - that was just so self important I genuinly laughed out loud.

[RosieH]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> > Labour is a party that appeals to (amongst

> others)

> > young militants and idealogists who think fair

> is

> > a good word that will make everybody happy.

Whereas the Tories have adopted an anarchist Big Society ideology. Oh the irony...

[Mick Mac]

Well exactly. The Tories have to play the game too. Its all a fight for the middle groud. Extremes are losers these days and if labour go that way they will be losers.

[SeanMacGabhann]

But my days of supporting Labour are I think behind me anyway, when you are younger you may feel the world is against you and Labour will help.

Those are your words Mick. I was merely responding to them. I didn't think in was inferring anything