Dropping the 10pm feed, and pillows

[Ruth_Baldock]

1) I weaned Baby Baldock from night-time breastfeeds about a month ago, to stop him waking 5+ times a night. It worked, hurrah! He sleeps from his last feed, which is a bottle at 10pm until 6am normally.

However, when can we stop giving him the 10pm feed? He's 9 months old, on three meals a day plus snacks and water and bfs about 4 times a day.

2) Baby Baldock likes pillows. His favourite is one on my bed, which is really thin (shoddy Asda value pillows). He seems to sleep longer when he's on his side with his head slightly elevated. I'm guessing he's too young for a pillow in his cot though? He can sit unaided, stand, cruise, crawl, stand unassisted and has taken a few steps before, so he is mobile enough not to suffocate, but is it still a no-no?

[GinaG3]

Sorry no advice on dropping feeds my daughter is still fed to sleep at nearing 20 months so I'm no expert on that one.

On the pillow front. I gave my daughter a pillow from 1 year albeit a extremely thin one. I would wait a little while longer, they do advise not to use pillows before 1 year (same goes for duvets I think?), I believe although I could be wrong. Every baby is different of course it comes down to your instinct as a mother too, you know your child best. Personally I would wait another 3 months though.

[GinaG3]

Oh yeah there was another thread about pillows a few days ago, there may be some more advice for you there.

[poppy]

Hi Ruth! If you are giving S a bottle at 10pm, one method you could try is to gradually dilute the formula and /or reduce the quantity, until he's just getting water. At nine months he doesn't need this feed, but at the moment is probably still genuinely hungry for it because he's used to a feed at that time. Therefore gradually diluting the formula will hopefully train him not to be so hungry until he doesn't bother waking for it. So the first couple of nights maybe try 75% formula and 25% water, then the next couple of nights 50:50, and so on. Or even more gradually depending on what you think might work best.

As for pillows... I'm not really sure what the dangers are once they're mobile, but to be on the safe side you could try raising the head end of the cot mattress so that his head is still slightly elevated, by putting a rolled up blanket or towel under the mattress.

Sounds as though he is heading in the right direction sleep-wise though - brilliant!

[Ruth_Baldock]

Ah good idea on both counts! I'll get nick to elevate the matress because I will defnitely break something. the diluted formula hadn't even occured to me, d'oh!

It's been a long hard slog but finally were seeing some progress with s' sleep! Nigtweani g him was the best thing I ever did, he didn't make a fuss at all which made it a lot easier really! Will we be seei g you at b+b today?

[poppy]

You've done brilliantly, it is SO hard! Yep, heading over in half an hour or so. Was crazy busy last week! x

[Princess]

On the elevating the matress idea I've found yellow pages under 2 cot legs work really well too. We first did it about 3 months ago when my now 9 month old had a cold. He seems to sleep so much better with the slight elevation (cold or not) that the unsightly directories are still there!

[born&brED]

Hi Ruth,

About dropping the 10pm feed - 9 months should be fine considering what else he is eating - it's plenty (actually, it's loads! Well done, Baby B!!). I think the general advice is when they are on 3 full meals, plus 3 or so milk feeds, they *shouldn't* need feeding at night time (haha). Anyway, when my son had been on the above for a month or so, I gradually reduced his feed by about 20ml a week or less (I expressed this feed from early on) and kept on doing that if he slept hrough til the morning still. Eventually he was only on 40ml, so I took the plunge and didn't go in to feed him. I also noticed he hadn't been waking up for it so that may be a sign too.

Hope it works, and glad he's sleeping better!

Interesting about the pillows, I was wondering that myself.

[canadianlisa]

Thanks for starting this thread Ruth.

Does anyone have any advice for baby's that are breast fed?. My 11 month old generally still wakes for her feed at 10:30. She is a good eater, good weight etc and now generally sleeps through the night from about 7-7 aside from the wake up. It took some fairly intense sleep training to get her to this point and I'd like to avoid it if possible. She will take a bottle at this feed if I am not there but she is not terribly keen on in and sometimes kicks off. I would love to be able to go out for an evening and feel secure that she is nice and tucked up in bed for the night.

On the other topic- how long does everyone keep using the baby sleeping bags for?

Thanks

Lisa

[louiseneilan]

My daughter is nine months old and has just started sleeping through from around 7.30pm til 6.30am. She still wakes up at some point in the night but I just got quite strict at about 8 months (for the first time - I wasn't a Gina Ford fan!) and gave her cuddles or soothing words rather than milk. Now she wakes up for about a minute and goes back to sleep herself. As someone else said, they don't really need the nightime milk when they're eating three meals a day, it's just a comforter.

My doctor told me to aim for about 600mls of milk a day split into 3 feeds. I was worried she wasn't getting this much from breastfeeds so in the end I switched to formula and I'm sorry to say I think this is what has mainly contributed to her better sleeping - little love has a full tummy! Obviously this won't be the case for all breastfeeding Mums but if, like me, you're short of milk then it might work. She now has 200ml at 7am/in her breakfast, 200ml at 3pm and 200ml before bed, and also eats up all her food (unless it's lentils!).

On the sleeping bags, I think they're great and will keep using them until I can't find them in her size! The best thing is, now she's crawling and standing up, they do go some way to stopping her and reminding her it's bed time ;-)

[Ruth_Baldock]

Re: dropping the 10.30 feed. I am using Poppy's suggestion and gradually watering down the bottle feed until it's just water. From then on, he might still wake, but I'll be sending DH in for a bit of the ol' shush patting until Baby S realises there is no point waking up for food/water at 10pm because he won't get owt!

If you want to drop the feed totally, it might work the same way our nightweaning did. I was cut totally out of the picture and lovely saintlike DH 'dealt' with it. He roomed in with Baby S, and when he predictably woke at 12, 3.15 and 5 for boob, the aforementioned shush patting happenned. It took one night, we were really lucky, for Baby S to cotton on. So, me being taken totally away from Baby helped a LOT. Perhaps this could work for dropping the feed, if you have a very pro-active other half who can take over with that bit?

[Moos]

On sleeping bags, our son is still in his aged 3 annabit and no longer in a cot, he loves it. But he's going to be upgraded to a big boy bed and duvet in the winter.

[canadianlisa]

Yes I suspect we just need to make a decision, set a date and go for it. I am sure that it will not actually be as painful as I think it will be. I suppose I have been happy to just leave it as this pattern of sleep is a 1000 times better than the past. I am very sure it is not necessary though. When she turns one I am hoping to introduce cow's milk so will be able to better measure her intake.

Good point Louise re the sleeping bag. I think that they are one of the sleepy time signals for now at least.

Thanks

[Gussy]

I found it very scary dropping the 10pm feed with my daughter but it actually wasn't that bad. I gradually reduced the amount just to be sure she wasn't hungry and once we were down to a few ounces for a week or so it gave me the confidence to ditch it. She was fine! Re: sleeping bags, she is now 2 years old and still in her bag. You can get toddler sizes and she has to have it to go to sleep. Its all part of the bedtime routine so can't see any harm in keeping it on. I've also always tilted the cot - started with me thinking she had reflux in the early days and now still do - just a blanket under the mattress. We also got a pillow recently. She loves it. I think the manufacturers say 12 months plus for duvet and pillow, but I guess as a mum you know best.

[BeccaL]

One thing to mention re growbags - we were intending to continue using them until our daughter worked out how to undo the zip - went in regularly to find her sitting in her cot with just a nappy on - she'd taken off the bag and her babygrow, and was freezing!! At that point, decided duvet and pillow the way forward! she was about 2 then (I think) so not worried about her having a pillow...

[Gussy]

BeccaL we had this problem too. I fixed it temporarily by putting it on backwards, but its back on the right way at the moment while my little darling finds something else to amuse herself with. At one point we had the nappy coming off and everything and her waking up in wee soaked sheets! I almost resorted to ordering an inpenetrable bodysuit from the US, forget its name but has about 4 fastenings up the back so they can't get out :) The Grobag toddler bag is supposed to be toddler proof as it has a popper over the zip but it was no match for little fingers and 12 hours of boredom....

[Yorkie]

oh my god, they can get out of grobags?! I had no idea... My daughter's just 14mths and I'm too contemplating pillow/bedding. Everything I've read says not to use before 1. We're finally weaning her off a midnight feed (switched breast to bottle to Daddy & bottle to nothing but cuddles/sshing) although she's still waking before morning sometimes but falls asleep on the feeding pillow v happily. It seems a bit mad to put that in the cot (and presumably might not be the safest) which is why I wondered about getting her one of her own. Then again it might be that it smells of me/you Ruth which is why they like it so much. As with most things I'm discovering in this mad new world of motherhood, there are very few definitive answers.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Very true, Yorkie. There is never a question re: babies with a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

We never bothered with growbags- put Baby S in one and he kicked his little legs and screamed. He got his point across and we didn't bother. Wish he would sleep in one, though, because he's worked out how to take his PJ bottoms off and undo his nappy. Nice!