4 year old asking about dying

[nunheadmum]

About a month or so ago the subject of death came up with my 4 year old - we were talking about her grandad who died when she was too young to remember. We didn't make a big thing of it, we just said 'That's Popsy, who died' and moved the conversation on. Then she asked, 'Will I die?' and I said 'Oh we don't die till we're very, very old.' (Sorry, hadn't anticpated it and I'm crap at being creative on the spot!)

We asked at her nursery, how we should handle it if the topic came back up again. They said, avoid the subject at all costs at this age.....so we quite happily didn't bring it back up.

But she keeps bringing it back up. Of course, the fact that she's getting into all the princess stories doesn't help - Sleeping Beauty, Snow White etc....it's hard to find a good fairy story that someone doesn't die in! My husband has been changing the words to try and avoid the subject. But once she knows a story, she gets really picky if you use the wrong words so that won't work unless we work out in advance an alternate way of saying things and both use the same words every time....which just won't work in practice.

Just wondering if anyone else has had this at this age and how you handled it? I don't like not answering questions if they're asked although I don't mind a bit of softening of the edges. But at the same time, my LO can seem a little sensitive and I don't want to get her worrying.

[womanofdulwich]

YOu might use plants and animals as examples? The plant has flowered and died and we have enjoyed it but now it has died- or animals- I think you cannot avoid it- but it is the whole where are they now? that if you do not have a religion can be hard. I must admit I found church quite helpful for these questions.

[Fuschia]

I am not so sure it's good advice to avoid the subject. I think it's normal for children to go through a phase of being very worried about death. I think they need to be able to share their fears

Badgers parting gifts is a lovely book we have x

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Badgers-Parting-Gifts-Susan-Varley/dp/0006643175/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1284750295&sr=1-1-spell

[Fuschia]

and mog dies

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Goodbye-Mog-Judith-Kerr/dp/0007149689/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284750266&sr=8-1

[Saila]

i agree - i'm totally freaked out by death probably because i've had a very 'protected' up bringing, avoiding the conversation at all costs. we had no animal deaths when i was younger(didn't have animals) and i didn't know my grandparents.

Religion is great for masking the truth. no wonder it's lasted so long.

My boss's father just passed away and she said 'well - it happens to all of us doesn't it'

It's taken 32 years for someone to say that to me in that context. Amazing how comforting that is... in a strange pragmatic way

the earlier we understand that fact, the better....?

[Fuschia]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/emotional_health/bereavement/bereavement_childtalk.shtml

[dutchestatefamily]

I haven't had experience of this with my children yet but I like the Frog books by Max Velthuijs which all have messages... the one about death is called Frog and the birdsong.

best wishes

[Goodliz]

My kids are always asking about death and I just try and answer them honestly with as much detail as they ask for as they are not very sentimental at this age.

My brother died when I was young and my son is always asking my mum about him. I asked my mum if it upset her and she said it is nice because she would rather my brother was remembered and talked about than forgotten and not talked about.

My Dad also died an my son asks about him loads too. He refers to him as Jim. He died of emphacemia (not sure of spelling) as he smoked so much.

My eldest was asking me about being cremated and buried. I said if you are cremated you have your ashes scattered somewhere you loved.

In reply he said: 'Did Jim have his ashes put in the cigarette shop?"

[Goodliz]

Just remembered something else my eldest said in one of our many death conversations:

'Mummy, when you die we will just get another mummy.'

[pebbles]

My son is 3 (last week) and although he hasn't asked about the dying question yet, both my father and mother in law are no longer around and for as long as I can remember i've called them Grandpa Paul and Granny Annie (and he calls my mum Granny and my father in law Grandpa - so there's that bit of a difference) and I point up to the sky and stars and say that they are no longer with us and we can't see them but that they are up there and they are always looking down and interested in what he is doing. We have their photos in a lot of places and he knows who they are but I don't think at the moment understands, but what i'm hoping is that when he does start questioning that it won't be so much of a shock???.. .hopefully

I do believe in God and I hope one day I can equate this into heaven however at this age I just like him knowing that I had a Daddy and my husband had a Mummy - if that make sense

I will follow this thread with interest..

[The Nappy Lady]

Personally I think much better to talk about it. I grew up on a farm, and the concept of life and death was always very much a part of my life as we would hatch chicks, ducklings and goslings in the spring, plus I'd see goats born etc. and equally I'd see some of our older animals die. I can remember being sad and crying, and being cuddled and comforted by my parents, but I feel it was a really positive way to grow up.

Our 6 year old has had phases of asking questions about death, and actually waved my Mum off a couple of years in floods of tears tears saying "I'm sad because you're old and you're going to die soon" - which bizarrely made us all laugh, but brought tears to my eyes all at the same time!

I sounds a bit grim, but living so close to Nunhead Cemetary we often walk our dog in there, and this has at times instigated a few conversations about death, and actually there is 1 grave we regularly visit, and we sit and talk about that person and how we feel/what we remember about them. We've been doing that since she was 3 years old.

If you can hold on to the concept that death is simply part of the 'circle of life', and as Saila's boss said - something that comes to us all eventually I think it helps a lot. I treat it the same as the 'how are babies made' questions - tell them just enough to satisfy them, without going into too much detail. I think children really pick up on our discomfort, and also know when we are trying to avoid an issue, which only makes them more curious. Often a very short and simply reply is enough for them, and the subject goes away then for a good while.

It isn't easy, but I hope this helps, and I don't think there is anything wrong with saying what you did about it not happing until we're very old (or for a long, long time etc) to a child of that age because of course you want to reassure her at the same time as explaining the concept. The wider issues and explanations cane come later.

[edanna]

A sweet book is No Matter What by Debi Gliori. It touches on death, so perhaps good if you need to talk about it. I've no experience of discussing this issue yet, but Im sure it's only a matter if time.

[nunheadmum]

I'm shocked - Mog dies!!!!!! Not sure I can deal with that yet!!!

Seriously though, thanks for all the comments. They sort of back my gut feeling on this - if she's asking questions, it's better to find some way of answering them, rather than swerving them. I was brought up Catholic and kids are marginally so - I thought it would be useful as a means to explain lots of basic questions (life, death, morals, right and wrong etc) when they're young, even if I'm not into the institution. Maybe it's time to start taking her a little more.

I will look at the books. I think this may be a good way to handle it as she loves her stories and realy processes them, asking lots of questions. And while I do love the capacity of young kids to embrace fantasies without question (we already have the tooth fairy checking on her teeth brushing), I do feel that when it comes to hard topics, sometimes the honest answer is the easiest in the long run. (Heck, she's already asked what what tampons are for....how the hell do you explain that one, in a fluffy pink way???!!!)

[The Nappy Lady]

(Heck, she's already asked what

> what tampons are for....how the hell do you

> explain that one, in a fluffy pink way???!!!)

LOL nunheadmum - when DD2 arrived and I was still using sanitary pads post birth my then 4 year old called them 'Mummy's nappies' which made me feel really good about myself obviously. :-$

[Fuschia]

I have explained about tampons and sex and death all to DS1. He threw me a curve ball when I was unlocking the front door one day with a lot of shopping by suddenly saying "The seed and the egg that makes a baby, how does the seed GET there, mummy?!" All my preconsidered ideas just fled and I found myself blurting out the truth, shock horror, I menat to say something about special cuddles and instead I said the seeds squirted out of the daddy's willy...oops.. he was only 3... I expected a knock on the door from someone or raised eyebrows at nursery but I think he has largely kept it to himself (luckily)

[Ruth_Baldock]

I remember very vividly asking my mum why I didn't have a dad when I was 3 1/2. He had died 18 months previously, and she told me very matter of factly what had hapenned. I wasn't scared or upset and I still totally respect her bein totally honest. She's very religious but didn't mention heaven at all.

My own son is named after my father so I expect this may come up sooner than we thought- not yet though, he's only 9 months old!

[sillywoman]

Nothing much to add, other than to concur with what others have said. Mine all went through a 'death' phase and just needed to understand in some way. It's making sense of the world around them & my feeling is that to ignore or obfuscate the issue just makes it scarier and more mysterious.

I really think that whoever at the nursery gave you that advice was actually wrong, and is giving advice that is potentially damaging to children. I'm sure I've read that the approach everyone else has mentioned (discuss it factually & openly in age appropriate language) and that you instinctively want to take is currently thought to be best? I wonder if you might raise this again with the nursery and ask for specifics as to what piece of research/ child development literature they are basing their advice on; I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out to be the personal opinion of whoever you spoke to? Also, as Molly mentioned, pets are so useful for making some sense of death now that most children don't live with it as closely connected to their everyday lives as it once was - thank goodness!

[SteveT]

I always spoke to my children as if they were adult when answering their questions.

We chatted a little about death, and I said one should never be afraid of death, as we die every night.

The end result is that they are spoken of by their piers as older than their years.

[nunheadmum]

I suspect that nursery just didn't want to have to handle the topic (and resultant issues from other parents maybe) so tried to keep us off it.

I'm glad to hear that my 'tell them it as it is' approach isn't so wild after all. I've found that if I say things, generally the response is 'ok' and I sort of think that explaining things with that kind of response may be easier in the long run than trying a fuller discussion later when they'll ask lots more questions and understand more and it'll all feel more uncomfortable. At the moment discussing death, tampons, birds and bees seems on par with what happened at the swing park for them! Although I'm sure I won't avoid later conversations but at least the ground concepts are set. And I'm crap at coming up with fluffier explanations.

[Fuschia]

nunheadmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> I'm glad to hear that my 'tell them it as it is'

> approach isn't so wild after all. I've found that

> if I say things, generally the response is 'ok'

> and I sort of think that explaining things with

> that kind of response may be easier in the long

> run than trying a fuller discussion later when

> they'll ask lots more questions and understand

> more and it'll all feel more uncomfortable. At

> the moment discussing death, tampons, birds and

> bees seems on par with what happened at the swing

> park for them! Although I'm sure I won't avoid

> later conversations but at least the ground

> concepts are set. And I'm crap at coming up with

> fluffier explanations.

I think it's less embarrassing to explain about sex to a younger child, actually, as they just accept it and don't think it's dirty.. I can imagine broaching it out of the blue with a more worldly child might be a bit excrutiating.

[prdarling]

My 4 and 1/2 year old is obsessed with talking about death. I try to answer his questions honestly and fairly breezily hoping he'll move straight onto the next topic!

He is particularly interested in roadside shrines and always likes to discuss the one on the corner of Peckham Rye and ED Road " Mummy when little girls die do they turn into lamp posts?"

I absolutely hate talking about it and find it so upsetting but I figure I have to grit my teeth and be as honest as possible. At this age he seems to accept everything I tell him and isn't too worried about anything.

We have only got as far as people who are very very very old (ie older than his grandparents) die and very sadly some children who don't cross the road carefully - I think that's all he (and I) can cope with at the moment

[ljs]

Interesting to read all of your replies. My 2.5 year old daughter is slightly obsessed with dying and going to heaven at the moment, especially as Doodle the dog down the road has just passed away.

I just explained that at times when animals are poorly or old and they can't make themselves better then they go for a very big sleep in heaven and when they stay asleep we call it dying... She seems happy with this at the moment and reminds me every time that we see a dog.... " That dogs not dying mummy, he's not old enough yet ".... She hasn't asked about people dying yet .... but as she's only just turned 2.5 i hope we have a while to go ......

[Mrs TP]

I used the example of toy batteries to explain death to my little ones when the subject arose, i.e. you can put new batteries in a toy but not a person or animal. They seemed to grasp that explanation. Do have to reassure them that people only die when very old or very ill and luckily we have not had to cope with variations on that.

Good luck.

[Zo?]

A recent conversation with my nearly 4 yo(I'm aware that my answers are not exactly model ones, but she blindsided me rather..!):

She: "Mummy, why do people die?"

Me: "Well, sometimes they are very old and their bodies stop working."

She: "Hmmmmmm" (expecting more)

Me: "OK, well, erm, sometimes get very poorly and doctors can't fix them."

She: "Yeeeeees..." (still not good enough)

Me: "Right, OK, well sometimes people have nasty accidents and.."

She: "Yes, that's very interesting, mummy, but mostly they die because they get trampled by wildebeests."

Took me a while to remember that she'd been reading The Lion King a lot lately.