Shocking driving at GG roundabout

[pop9770]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Pop, it's a roundabout, clearly marked and highly

> visible. Regardless of whether you think it's

> badly designed or too big, if people hit it that's

> because they're either incompetent drivers or were

> driving too fast for the road and traffic

> conditions.

>

> If the size of the roundabout were reduced, that

> would enable drivers to drive even faster into the

> junction, the very problem with which Louisa began

> this thread. It's selfish and aggressive driving

> that causes the problems, not the road design.

> How many cars would have accidents at the

> roundabout if they slowed and prepared to stop if

> necessary, carefully checked for pedestrians and

> gave way to traffic coming from their right then

> waited for a suitable opening before joining the

> roundabout? None.

I agree the accidents are down to bad / fast driving.

But there are reasons this roundabout increases bad / fast driving...

Does the design size and layout create frustration which causes many drivers to go berserk because it needlessly slows traffic and constricts the approach of vehicles which makes for an angry situation for all?

The poorly marked lanes are NOT clear they have squeezed two clear lanes which go into one/two unclear lanes.

It's a mess.

The levels of difficulty and frustration are high and that's what causes the speeding the anger excess difficulty resulting in rage.

If it was clearly marked as 1 lane into 1 lane around the roundabout then that would possibly reduce the high stress levels for the vehicles navigating all the problems as it would take one difficulty away. Ideally take as many difficulties away as possible./.

Ideally it would be designed to flow in a steady way .. currently it does not it confuses and frustrates and that makes for slow progress for all vehicles.

It's as if it's been designed to make drivers go berserk and give them more difficulty that needed.

It's piece of bad design and incompetence thanks to tfl and the planners .. who should be sacked or worst made to navigate GG roundabout every day every hour!

[wulfhound]

Why does all this traffic instruction have to be spelt out these days when in the past it seemed to come naturally.

Perhaps because modern kids grow up on push-button gadgets, and modern cars are plush, comfortable, well-insulated push-button machines which don't give you much of a sense of connection to your surroundings -- and, at in-town speeds, protect their occupants from most of the consequences.

[micromacromonkey]

I was almost knocked off my bike there the other day actually. That junction is terrible for motor vehicles, bikes and pedestrians. There are often crazy tailbacks. It should be a priority to sort it out; nick a strip of land from the green if necessary, have segregated cycle infrastructure (I've got a BMW as well by the way, I'm not a single issue cycle bore) and address the weird narrowing feeling you get when trying to drive around it. I don't know what the main traffic flows are but I guess from east dulwich road to/from east dulwich grove via that bit of LL is a very busy one, so you'd need to include the LL/EDG junction in any redesign too.

[Henry_17]

MMM,

So YOU are the BMW driver that nearly run down RRR!

[micromacromonkey]

My self important ignorant narcissism (not to mention inability to afford a ferrari) would seem to indicate it could have been.

[pop9770]

It's only been a problem since the bus lanes and bus stopps were introduced.

Before then it was busy but it flowed.

Like most of London,,, Traffic lights Bus lanes and TFL nonsense has resulted in traffic crawling and drivers going berserk.

Look at Elephant and Castle what a mess.

Another bit of London/Southwark bad design which only drives people insane and is causing danger whilst masquerading as progress.

The GG roundabout causes traffic to snarl up because it's not two lanes it's one and it's confused that it's two utterly bonkers .. add to that buses are bigger cars are bigger people are bigger everything is bigger they really need to make the route around the roundabout bigger. Reduce or remove the middle and make it two lanes or make it clearly one lane with only one lane entry at every entrance one or the other because at the moment it's a mess of confusion it's neither!

It's a death trap just waiting for a fatal accident.

It would be interesting IF (and I hope there never is) there was a fatality and it was shown the design was part of the cause (we all know the design is deadly just read the comments on here) then someone at Southwark would be done for manslaughter.

I vote the over paid Head of the Southwark road planning team and any over paid minions who designed this garbage.

If that were possible then we would all probably be looking at a GG roundabout which worked instead of the crock of s?it we have.

It's like the Croydon tram accident they should have added tech to the trams to control speed to keep the trams from speeding around corners when that tech became available.

GG roundabout should be designed to flow and keep everyone moving safely .. It isn't doing that SO it's unfit for purpose!

The planers need to fix it before there's a fatality.

Maybe the money they're spending on double yellow lines at every junction should be going on a fix at GG roundabout ?

[rendelharris]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> Look at Elephant and Castle what a mess.

Since the works have been completed I've found Elephant far better on a bike, in a car and on a bus; ten years ago I'd walk home from Waterloo rather than bother getting a bus that was going through Elephant, it was a proper mess then.

[pop9770]

rendelharris

Really every time I've been through EC it's been a nightmare especially while they were building the cycle lanes.

GG roundabout is a shocker though.

[rendelharris]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> rendelharris

>

> Really every time I've been through EC it's been a

> nightmare especially while they were building the

> cycle lanes.

>

> GG roundabout is a shocker though.

As I said, since the works were completed...if they rebuild GG roundabout that'll be a 'mare until the works are finished, nature of the beast.

[trinidad]

I was nearlymowed down by a boi racer while crosing the road close to the charity shop. i was actually half way crossing, whe a driver almost hit me. he asked me to look where i was going (even though i was already crossing), he became abusive and got out of his car. Another passenger got out of the car, and "encouraged" the drover back to the car.Hot hed driving around

[Alexyxx]

Coming very late to this, if everyone from all sides complains about this GG roundabout and its zebra crossings, then it cannot be that bad. We want to squeeze ever more vehicles, cycles, pedestrians - adults old and young,and children- into our rather narrow high streets and residential streets - we all have to make compromises and live together, even if we occasionally/frequently wave our fists at the criminals from the other sides (well, at least that makes us feel better).

Curious that so many say this is a deathtrap and an accident waiting to happen and all the narrow escapes, yet no one I think has yet come up with an actual accident. For sure every one would like their own exclusive space - maybe pedestrians at the top level as in Hong Kong Central, cyclists alongside but in their own space and no annoying pedestrians getting in the way, and the cars, buses and lorries in the bottom level down below - but it ain't going to happen here in London - and we would not like it if it did.

We have to get on with each other. Do we think GG roundabout would be a lot better if there were straight traffic lights? I doubt it- there would be a lot more waiting around for one's chance to race across the junction, instead of nosing through with plenty of eye contact( quite apart from the cursing at the BMWs...)

Anyway enough from me. But I do think this roundabout is on the side of history and the way we we will all have to live together.

[uncleglen]

I was there the other day going from Grove Vale to LL and I was positioned over to the right. A car came up on my left and then cut in front of me to go into LL...totally unacceptable.

[JohnL]

I think traffic logic would say remove the large island - but it's a landmark for ED.

[Penguin68]

Or perhaps reduce every feeder lane into the roundabout to a single track earlier - perhaps with two lanes as exits - that way traffic moves away from the roundabout quickly, but enters it in a more orderly fashion, with no options for overtaking.

[Sue]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> I was there the other day going from Grove Vale to

> LL and I was positioned over to the right. A car

> came up on my left and then cut in front of me to

> go into LL...totally unacceptable.

I think some people are just crap and selfish drivers in any situation, and there seem to be more of them these days.

It beggars belief how many people seem to think it's absolutely fine to hold up queues of traffic in both directions whilst they do a U turn or three point turn on a main road, because they can't be bothered to go the short distance to the next side road and turn round there (or go round the block).

And red lights might as well not exist for some drivers.

[pop9770]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Or perhaps reduce every feeder lane into the

> roundabout to a single track earlier - perhaps

> with two lanes as exits - that way traffic moves

> away from the roundabout quickly, but enters it in

> a more orderly fashion, with no options for

> overtaking.

100% this is a great idea

Problem is it isn't expensive enough for Southwark they need to wast a lot of money making it worst

so 0% chance of something this good happening ..

[Bic Basher]

I seem to recall that Southwark at one point proposed to remove the roundabout for a standard junction with traffic lights. This was rejected.

[pop9770]

Bic Basher Wrote:

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> I seem to recall that Southwark at one point

> proposed to remove the roundabout for a standard

> junction with traffic lights. This was rejected.

Probably too cheap.

It really needs a big plan something costing ?500,000 + of local tax payer dosh.

[Jeremy]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Or perhaps reduce every feeder lane into the

> roundabout to a single track earlier

Yes, exactly this. Would prevent people cutting each other up and/or steaming down the bus lane.

[James Barber]

Hi pop9770,

No. The reason the community were outraged was the amount of Goose Green that would have been consumed and the proposal was withdrawn. This was first proposed about 16-20 years ago with a public meeting at St.John the Evangelist church hall. And more recently about 2-3 years ago.

Hi P68,

I like the idea of this reduction of the feeder lanes down from 2 to 1 lane. But looking at www.crashmap.co.uk it shows 5 crashes over the last five years of reported data all defined as slight. All 5 involved 2 cars with one slight injury for each crash. Council officers tell me that's remarkable considering the traffic volumes and its a roundabout.

.

[edhistory]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Penguin68 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Or perhaps reduce every feeder lane into the

> > roundabout to a single track earlier

>

> Yes, exactly this. Would prevent people cutting

> each other up and/or steaming down the bus lane.

Do you know how many ambulances use Lordship Lane?

[uncleglen]

It's ideal to turn into a traffic light controlled T junction

[intexasatthe moment]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/63/f4/66/63f46611a951991a8ad91bb69ebe2868.jpg

bring back the horse trough ?

[doogsey]

Some of the driving around GG roundabout is genuinely shocking and it would be safer with traffic lights.

Having said that, the way it is now gives priority to pedestrians and makes it feel more like a local shopping street. Switching to a T intersection IMO would make it feel more urban and prioritises cars and traffic in general. Plus I'd have to wait at lights to cross when I cross whenever I feel like it right now. As such I'd be against switching to traffic lights.

[Jeremy]

James Barber Wrote:

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> 5 crashes over the last five years of reported data all defined as

> slight ... remarkable considering the traffic volumes

> and its a roundabout.

I think the problem for me isn't the number of crashes, but very aggressive driving... but I take your point...