Proposed cycle superhighway to run down Lordship Lane

[ianr]

The cyclehoop is an attractive idea, but I'm wondering if it provides much additional functionality. AFAICS it just:

1) indicates that bike parking is officially sanctioned at that point

2) indicates preferred direction of parking

3) maybe makes it perhaps slightly more easy to tether one's beast.

If you look at the lowest picture on p.1 of their site, the bike lock isn't even attached to the hoop.

So I'd be interested in having a look at some in use.

BTW, there is an online map showing all cycle parking stands in the borough, http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200123/cycling_in_southwark/442/cycle_parking_and_security. You can even get photos and details by clicking on the icons. It's a bit slow at the moment, but I'll see sometime if I can find any hoops on it.

[Horsebox]

ianr Wrote:

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> The cyclehoop is an attractive idea, but I'm

> wondering if it provides much additional

>functionality.

Erm, it's a place to lock your bike for a short period of time. What additional functionality do you want?

It is what it is. Don't you think there's a tiny chance you might be over-analysing this?

[ianr]

>Erm, it's a place to lock your bike for a short period of time. What additional functionality do you want?

I was questioning whether it's needed at all, if the post is already there.

[peterstorm1985]

In parts of London (and in other cities) locking ones bike to street furniture, not designed for the purpose, can result in a fine, so something that makes it clear that it is legitimate is a good thing. Also it does look as if the cyclehoop provides some stability to make the bike remain upright.

Bring on the cyclehoops I say

[Horsebox]

ianr Wrote:

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> >Erm, it's a place to lock your bike for a short

> period of time. What additional functionality do

> you want?

>

> I was questioning whether it's needed at all, if

> the post is already there.

The hoops allow for both wheels and frame to be easily secured, plus the design prevents the bike from simply being lifted over the post.

There's a whole host of other benefits on their site.

James Barber, what do you say?

[binary_star]

I like these: http://chriskenyon.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/2008/07/26/img_49291_2.jpg

http://www.frontyardcompany.co.uk/products/plantlock.html

I've seen some outside the Roebuck on Dover St in Borough and some outside Look Mum No Hands on Old Street and I think they are actually quite attractive. When they're not being used, they just look like planters not 'bike parking solutions', which is nice.

[ellabrunswick]

To pick up on the discussion about cycling and shopping streets, I agree that making it easy to shop by bike is all about having plenty of places (formal or informal) to park. And I'd be keen to join the walk to look at good places to add cycle parking on Lordship Lane.

It also helps to have well-designed panniers, baskets or pull-along-trailers-that-convert-into-trolleys - avoiding backbreaking transport by rucksack! In Holland, vinyl panniers are left on many bikes most of the time and handbags/shopping bags are just slung into them without much faff.

On the question of evidence that cyclists spend money in local shopping streets - yes, there is research that shows this. Four years ago, Southwark Cyclists ran a project from Surrey Quays Shopping Centre to promote cycle training and encourage cycling for shopping trips. The report on that project includes a few pages summarising research on cycling and shopping, including the European Commission's view that cyclists are 'better customers' because more often exposed to temptation (great!), and work by Sustrans on cyclists' contribution to local vitality. The report is on the Southwark Cyclists website http://southwarkcyclists.org.uk/content/campaigns and is called 'Shopping Centred Cycling' (the relevant pages are 9 to 11). Full disclosure (as they say): I wrote the report. Please excuse me for posting a link to it - it's in the hope that the research and references could still be useful to others.

[languagelounger]

The London Assembly Transport Committee is to examine the impact that new cycling schemes have had on the capital

[XXDECORATORXX]

Sounds ok, but is it only the borris bikes allowed in the blue lane or all cyclists,might cause mahem tho, a blue lane in the bus lane a cyclist overtakes the buss visa versa into the car lane, i dont think theres much more room to make the road wider.

[Applespider]

It's all bikes - not just Boris bikes. Shouldn't cause mayhem - cyclists overtake buses everyday and filter in and out of the bus lane to do so... The previous CS haven't had any widening works associated with them...

[intexasatthe moment]

cyclists overtake buses everyday and filter in and out of the bus lane to do so- yup ,and down in Peckham they filter into the bike contraflow going in the opposite direction .

Hopefully they manage to avoid any bikes /pedestrains coming the other way but obscured by the bus they are overtaking .

[Medley]

That Peckham redesign is a total disaster. Quite amusing until you remember it's your taxes paying for such utter rubbish. My mate's 3 month old could have done a better job. You can just see it all making sense in the designer's heads - and absolutely no sense whatsoever on the ground.

Still, at least they've avoided confusion by having a green or red or blue cycle lane by....making it a nearly invisible part of the pavement!

Genius!

So cyclists southbound are constantly forced onto the road (which is one-way, the other way) by pedestrians who don't realise it's a bike lane.

Meanwhile cyclists northbound, not fancying sitting behind a bus while it loads and unloads, hop onto this narrow, barely identifiable cycle 'path' and then promptly ignore the crazy design at the junction with the high st.

At least they've gone for asphalt rather than that god-awful brick that predictably collapsed under the weight of the 86 bus routes that go through there.

Rant over.

[peterstorm1985]

Applespider Wrote:

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> cyclists overtake buses everyday

> and filter in and out of the bus lane to do so...

>

This is true, and walking over London Bridge in the morning, I've watched the ambulances arrive when it doesn't work so well.

[Applespider]

For a small minority hopefully - bridges are a nightmare that thankfully we won't have to deal with coming through ED.

I cross Vauxhall Bridge in the morning and it's so badly designed for cyclist and buses that I'm surprised there aren't more accidents there - you have to come out of the bus lane in order to go straight ahead while trying to avoid the cars trying to cross over to turn left. It's the one junction in London that I hope is on red as I approach to give me a fighting chance of getting into position.

[DJKillaQueen]

I sometimes stop at a green light and wait for it to go red so that I can get into position (rather than risking my life).....and I agree with Medley on the Rye lane contraflow thing.

[intexasatthe moment]

I'm a bore I know ,but one of the things that makes me so mad about the Peckham Rye contraflow is that there was a consultation .

But who knew ?

And how much did the "consultation" cost ?

[Medley]

There was a consultation?!

I'm in Southwark Cyclists as part of being a member of London Cycling Campaign and I never heard about it.

In any case they could have asked

'Do you want two way cycling and an improved road surface on Rye Lane?'

And I'd have said yes, although it's turned out to be 'Do you want a disastrously designed cycle facility on Rye Lane'

[DJKillaQueen]

This is what southwark's own site says about the cycle contraflow....

So last year, Southwark Council decided to carry out consultation with local and business communities, working with partners Transport for London and the London Cycle Network, to establish what improvements were needed to be built.

Ben Plowden, Director of Better Routes and Places at Transport for London, said: "The improved Rye Lane will significantly improve the environment in the town centre as well as create a safe and pleasant walking and cycling environment.

"With many people taking to two wheels and walking for shorter journeys, it is important to invest in facilities that promote cycling and walking. Improving streets and shared spaces is at the heart of the Mayor of London's agenda and TfL is pleased to be funding projects such as Rye Lane that directly support the Mayor's Transport Strategy."

The new cycle contra flow track will greatly enhance connectivity for cyclists in Peckham and those travelling from Burgess Park towards Rye Lane via the local Surrey Canal path.

Read the whole article here

Make what you will of the 'consultation' but the reference to 'improved' safetly for cyclists and pedestrians is mystifying. I was knocked off my cycle twice last week by predestrians that strayed into the 'pavement' cycle lane with no time for me to react. Prior to the contraflow scheme I never had a collision with a pedestrian in twenty years of cycling. I now avoid it as a route.

[intexasatthe moment]

Medley - having been told by Southwark's contact for the "consultation " that Barry Mason and Southwark cyclists were in favour of this plan ,I emailed southwark cyclists asking if they could tell me why/explain what I was missing .

But I didn't get a reply .

I also raised it with James Barber but his reply didn't deal with the concerns I'd raised ,only said that it was a good thing to extend the cycle route that runs from Old Kent Rd area along old canal past library .

I did respond to the "consultation " but the impression I got was that it was already decided .

I had asked if the date for replies could be extended ( given the lack of publicity ) and was told that this wouldn't be possible as a delay would mean loosing the money allocated to the project .

[Medley]

V interesting posts, thanks for them intexas and DJKQ.

It's another of those scenarios where it all looks lovely in someone's planning doc and on a comp. screen. And it is a great idea to have a contraflow as lots of cyclists just went the wrong way down the pavement before anyway.

But the reality is so woeful that most of the advantage is destroyed.

Surely any mug can see that having a northbound lane only one bus wide - aside from the bus congestion - will force cyclists onto the pavement/cycle lane?

Likewise that having a cycle lane marked only by incredibly discreet small cycle symbols embedded into the pavement can only lead to grief on all sides? Most of the people I've had near misses with I think have genuinely not understood that it's not just part of the pavement - and I don't blame them.

So depressing. All that money and effort and disruption and it doesn't work.

Maybe we should all get out there with some blue paint and declare it a Citizen's Cycle Superhighway.

[green bean]

Please don't abandon the idea of Greendale - the concerns about safety after dark should be addressed for all Greendale users (cyclists and pedestrians). It's a very popular route when the light is good, and I hate feeling that it's out of bounds during the winter months. The provision of street lights is currently inadequate. If we get a critical mass of people using it for the post-work and school runs during winter then it will begin to feel safe and accessible to everyone.

[James Barber]

Hi green bean,

The lighting along Greendale meets the same standards as normal residential street - or at least that's what I've been assured. It feels darker and less secure as no private homes bordering it some throwing out light others with activities taking place.

Chicken and egg really. Do you put in flood lighting in hope more people use it or accept it is not ideal for dark hours use?

[DulwichMoan]

You Don't Pay Road Tax, But You All Think You Deserve Your Own Cycle Lane? You Like Too Go Through Red Lights, But If We Motorist Hit You Its Our Fault? I Think Cyclist's Are The Biggest Accident On Our Roads.

[huncamunca]

oh do piss off

[DulwichMoan]

Sorry Did I Say Somthing That Hurt Your Feelings?