Proposed cycle superhighway to run down Lordship Lane

[The Minkey]

"What route do you think the cycle superhighway should take that would get you cycling?"

One that avoids other traffic: I love cycling but cycling in London traffic scares the shit out of me, especially junctions such as E&C.

[Sue]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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>>

> I did a cycling proficiency at school and it was

> FREE. There are also similar schemes today for

> anyone to do that are FREE.

xxxxxxx

SilverFox's point was that they should be compulsory.

I doubt if the idiot cyclists who jump red lights, ignore people on pedestrian crossings and cycle without lights at night are going to go out of their way voluntarily to do a cycling proficiency course, free or not.

[colonelchips]

The cycling superhighway from Tower Hill to Canary Wharf seems to me to be an example of this scheme done well. It avoids the main road, is quicker the main road and has a kerb to actually protect cyclists.

If the route is planned well it could be extremely useful. I tried the link at the top of the page and it only took me to the large scale planned route - does anyone have a link to the actual planned route?

[karter]

James is talking sense at last, put a speed sensor or camera on Lordship lane instead of filling it with crossings so that he can get his kids across the street in one piece. Also, a blue cycle route from the Plough and down Crystal Palace rd through Bellenden and Peckham and avoiding the hill and into town makes sense. Another no brainer. Voter Karter please.

[DJKillaQueen]

I doubt if the idiot cyclists who jump red lights, ignore people on pedestrian crossings and cycle without lights at night are going to go out of their way voluntarily to do a cycling proficiency course, free or not.

And nor are they going to buy licenses either.....

Most schools still do cycling proficiency schemes and many of the cyclists that break the rules have done them. It's not rocket science that a red light means stop...yet some cyclists, along with some drivers ignore them in spite of driving tests etc. I get as mad as anyone at cyclists at night without lights on the road but if a driver does hit one the driver would never be held to blame because of that rule break.

[DJKillaQueen]

The only flaw with your route Karter is that cars park on some of those streets so where would the blue lane go exactly?

[ImpetuousVrouw]

Crystal Palace road, bellendon, southampton way, over burgess park, through the aylsbury and heygate then joining the cycle sh at elephant. That's the best route.

[louisiana]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> I doubt if the idiot cyclists who jump red lights,

> ignore people on pedestrian crossings and cycle

> without lights at night are going to go out of

> their way voluntarily to do a cycling proficiency

> course, free or not.

>

> And nor are they going to buy licenses

> either.....

>

> Most schools still do cycling proficiency schemes

> and many of the cyclists that break the rules have

> done them. It's not rocket science that a red

> light means stop...yet some cyclists, along with

> some drivers ignore them in spite of driving tests

> etc.

I've counted more than 30 drivers jumping the red lights at the Plough roadworks in the last few days. Some of them put their foot down from almost stopped, screech past stopped traffic head-on into oncoming traffic in the same lane, attempting to reach 50/60mph as they do so. The behaviour has been unbelievable and really scary. Passing a test does not guarantee anything, as all these people have presumably passed a test, but seem to think they are on some kind of racing circuit. I'm all in favour of cyclists, and drivers, all following the rules of the road.

But this is all beside the point. We are talking about safer routes.

[Otto]

Love the cycling superhighway - esp on LL - and also the suggestions for rerouting over the hill by Mr. Barber...

[Otto]

James Barber - off topic - but, that is the barclays bike map - Will the free bikes ever get a stand in Ed? It would be marvelous -

[Applespider]

I've used CS7 (from Stockwell to Colliers Wood) a few times. It did make the journey much quicker - since cars aren't allowed to park/stop on them so there's less filtering in and out of the main traffic flow. For the most part though, it is just the bus lane. The blue is a horrendous colour though - it's much harder to see any ruts/dips in the road surface.

Having it go over Dog Kennel Hill can't be a good idea though. What puts me off doing DKH regularly on the bike (read - at all) is the thought of having a bus up my tail while having to maintain speed. Much better to find a route going round it if at all possible. There is another proposed route from Lewisham to Victoria which I'm wondering would cross this one at Camberwell?

Not sure it's really going to bring cash into Lordship Lane though - unless you also add in more bike stands. I'm guessing it's primary function will be for commuters who aren't likely to be looking to stop en route.

And yes, there are a minority of inconsiderate muppets who use the roads whether on two wheels, four wheels, eight wheels or no wheels. All the rest of us can do is follow the rules and hope they don't get in our paths.

[DJKillaQueen]

Yeah I don't buy the more cash for LL thing either. Obviously route wise...cyclists can avoid the hill through Bellenden Road and then Camberwell. That is a route that many local cyclists take anyway - along with the old canal path from Peckham.

With the super highways...I don't think they are aimed at local cyclists anyway. I think they are designed to creat a system that is easy to follow - but obviously local knowledge is the best advice when designing which routes would be easiest for cyclists. The hill down LL and then the hill at Denmark Hill is NOT the easiest route.....esp for new cyclists. They need flat ground with less traffic.

[KalamityKel]

The blue route at Elephant & Castle is a fair joke imo especially the bit that crosses the pedestrian walk way by Southbank Uni. There's a silly light set to advise cyclists that traffic has stopped and it's clear for them to cross but absolutely nothing to indicate to the pedestrian cyclists have right of way at this point (unless one walks all the way round to the cycle lane to look at the lights). Cyclists seeing a green light ahead of them pay little heed to the possibility of pedestrians walking across their path and just speed along like they rule the world (no really some do!).

And to make matters worse this route crosses one of the busiest sets of bus stops which is often congested and you cant see oncoming mounted cyclists pushing their way through weaving around traffic that could move at any point.

I assume the same amount of thought in the planning is to be expected with this idea?

[silverfox]

ImpetuousVrouw Wrote:

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> Silverfox, cyclists are allowed to cycle the wrong

> way down one way streets:

>

> Cycle Contraflow

Thanks ImpetuousVrouw. I see this was a trial experiment. Has it now been implemented as law?

[silverfox]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> And how would such a licence work for the under

> 18's. It's a totally idiotic and unworkable idea

> and last time I checked a cyclist usually comes

> off worst in a collision with a vehicle.

>

> I did a cycling proficiency at school and it was

> FREE. There are also similar schemes today for

> anyone to do that are FREE.

Simple - it's not required for under 17 year olds (legal driving age). Most under 17 year olds don't cycle to work, commute into city centres. For 17 years plus you have to display a metal disc on the bike (like the old cycling proficiency disc). No disc on bike, bike immediately impounded and you continue your journey on foot.

[Applespider]

Yet another thing to be nicked off the bike. And what if I have two bikes, do I get a disc for both or do I need to swap them over. Perhaps just registering frame numbers although also needs to be a way to deregister

In principle, I don't really object but I suspect cost outweighs benefits since I suspect just as uninsured drivers are involved in a disproportionate number of accidents, the same would happen here and the minority of dangerous cyclists would ignore this too

[Geron]

Regarding the route down CPR...as there are cars parked ALL the way down that street I guess the blue lane be painted at the edge of the parking space? That seems an invitation to a fair bit of bike vs car door action.

No disc on bike, bike immediately impounded and you continue your journey on foot.

More legislation? Ye gads, it's easy enough for the police to spot fine people breaking the law at the moment quite apart form the cost of what you're suggesting. Where will the bikes be stored? Who'll administer the return of the bikes? etc and so blah...

By the way, I have a couple of metal discs I could do you for a fiver...

G

[silverfox]

Yes, you're right. I can't really see a licensing system work for bicycles in practice. My real point is any Tom, Dick or Harry can jump on a bike and set off on busy roads. Many have never ridden a bike since their early teens and often on far quieter roads in the smaller towns they grew up in. Suddenly they feel they can take on Hyde Park corner and it's up to cars to get out of their way. However, a cycling proficiency test should be a minimum requirement. My worry is bicycle lanes only encourage nitwits to take to cycling.

[westof]

.

[Applespider]

Agreed. Since most councils offer free or subsidised training, there's little excuse for people not to do some form of training. I had a lesson before starting to commute regularly for precisely the reason you gave; that last time I rode regularly it was in a quiet town with less traffic. My instructor helped me plan a route, emphasised road positioning and assertive cycling and I felt far more confident afterwards. Having said that I am a better cyclist now than I was straight after that lesson. Time spent on the bike getting to know your bike's (and your) capabilities is a great teacher.

[DJKillaQueen]

Simple - it's not required for under 17 year olds (legal driving age). Most under 17 year olds don't cycle to work, commute into city centres. For 17 years plus you have to display a metal disc on the bike (like the old cycling proficiency disc). No disc on bike, bike immediately impounded and you continue your journey on foot.

Sigh...yet 14 plus and you are required to cycle on the road. MOST CYCLISTS ALREADY DO A CYCLING PROF COURSE INCLUDING THE ONES THAT BREAK THE RULES. Legislation will change nothing.

And most accidents involving cyclists are the fault of drivers. Around 16 die in the capital each year, half squashed by lorries that turn left over them. Can't find a single driver that died at the hands of a cyclist though.... Completely stupid, unworkable idea Applespider that takes away the last free mode of transport and Police would never bother wasting their time with it.

There are already adaquate rules in place, the highway code has everything you need to know about signalling in it and the legal requirement to have lights at night. There are free cycling courses available for anyone that wants some extra training. None of those things take way the terror however for some people of cycling on a road where traffic wizzes past them, cuts in front of them, ignores their signals to move into the centre of the road (for turning right).....I could go on about just how bad car and ignorant car drivers are towards cyclists.....who incidently don't have to show any knowledge of the rights cyclists or motorcyclists for their driving tests either. At the end of the day there are inconsiderate road users in ALL forms of transport that never get caught for their actions.

Anyway as someone pointed out before this is a thread about a proposed blue route....so let's not hijack it with legislative ideas that will change nothing.

[silverfox]

DJKillaQueen said:

"...And most accidents involving cyclists are the fault of drivers. Around 16 die in the capital each year, half squashed by lorries that turn left over them..."

I rest my case. Any cyclist with half a brain would not try and squeeze past a lorry or any other vehicle on the inside left at a junction. Nor should they pull alongside any vehicle on the inside left. They should bring the bike to a stop behind the vehicle, wait for the vehicle to turn left and then, only if it's safe to do so, they should proceed through the junction. This is not irrelevant to the subject of cycle lanes as most cycle lanes I've seen are on the left hand side by the kerbs.

[ondined]

I think a clearly marked cycle route is an excellent idea but avoiding DKH! What kind of madness would that be to send poor novice and non-local cyclists up there when it's so easily avoided. I started cycling from ED to Westminster and London Bridge this summer after finding out it IS possible to avoid DKH! I'm sure a lot of people don't realise it's possible, and also that once you get through the Bellenden area you can cross Peckham High Street and use the old canal path right into Burgess Park, and how easy it is to avoid Walworth Road and the Elephant roundabouts - all hideous prospects having witnessed so many near misses from the window of the 176! Although I won't be going along the canal path/ though the park when the nights start drawing in, finding a route that's mostly away from traffic and on quiet roads has been a great confidence giver and got me back on my bike.

[karter]

and @DJKQ, there's loads of space on CPrd for a blue cycle path, not that it needs to be part of the barclays path though. It is just the safer route it seems.

[DJKillaQueen]

Silverfox I was squashed by a car that pulled up alongside me at a junction and then turned left....THAT is how most accidents of vehicles turning left happens.....vehicles that overtake cyclists and drive over them. I've also driven in the capital for over 18 years and never had a single collision with a cyclist (because I give them the space they need and check my blind spots before manoevering). I've been hit by stupid drivers though that never seem to check enough to know what's around them.

Do you hate cyclists or something because you seem very ill informed?

Karter I totally agree that CPR is the most sensible route for a blue lane.