..

[Bajanbelle]

...

[rendelharris]

Bajanbelle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I do not understand why anyone should pay above

> the national minimum wage to someone who has no

> skills, is working for cash, may be in the country

> illegally and could be claiming benefits on top of

> the cash they are getting from people like me!

A) The minimum wage is an absolute joke - less than ?6 an hour for an 18-year-old - try paying the London living wage instead;

B) If you suspect someone's abusing the system in this way why are you colluding with them?

[red devil]

Bajanbelle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People need to stop

> paying cash and check who they are hiring and

> which economy they are supporting.

Practice what you preach then...

[Elphinstone's Army]

Karen don't you live in Camberwell? I wouldn't think anyone will want to help you, most people like to be appreciated and have effort rewarded, whatever their skills or circumstance. Hoist by your own petard, I reckon.

[southeastelectric]

Racist!

even road sweeper gets more than ?10 an hour.

If you don't want to pay for effort do it yourself and don't abuse others

[Jules-and-Boo]

Bajanbelle - you are exactly like the guy who runs Sports Direct - with a bit of racism thrown in.

I doubt you will ever get a cleaner now.

[Jules-and-Boo]

In fact - your attitude sucks. It's disgusting, disrespectful and reminds me of someone who wants something for nothing.

[sheff]

You don't even mention whether you expect them to supply the cleaning products (which most are likely to do).

So minimum wage less cleaning products and travel = sod all....

And, there is no skill in cleaning??? Seriously? If that were true then there wouldn't be awful reviews of cleaning services...

Maybe do it yourself...

I'm assuming you are keeping records of UTR's etc, just to make sure that the benefit scrounging, illegal immigrant who has no skills is at least paying tax?!

[Jeremy]

Cleaning is tiring work, and deserves a fair wage.

If you're worried about people working cash-in-hand, ask for an invoice and payment by bank transfer.

Also, what's with people posting how much they're willing to pay a cleaner, handyman, labourer, etc to do a job? You're not the first. These people set their own rates, you don't dictate it to them... it's disrespectful and presumptuous.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

"I do not expect to be berated..."

Well that worked out well for you eh no

[Mick Mac]

It may be immoral to pay only the minimum wage - but its not illegal. Large organisations get away with it.

If you have concerns about whether the person working for you is here legally then ask them

Whether they then pay tax on it, claim benefits etc is their issue not yours and if you have no information on this then you cannot make unfair assumptions.

As far as I know everyone pay ?10 for cleaning.

[malumbu]

We could all take the moral high ground but I expect loads of you pay cash in hand for manual work in particularly building.

It's how the economy works innit. Where would the US be without illegal immigrants?

Alternatively have controls in place to register/license professions as they do in France which I expect is to keep foreign workers out. But in turn up go the prices. As we may see from Brexit.

[Pugwash]

My stepmother in west Sussex before she went into a care home was paying around ?15 per hour for a cleaner (this was a couple or so more years ago).

If you employ a cleaner from organisation like Age UK - you expect to pay ?12 - ?16 per hour.

Why would you advertise for an unskilled cleaner? I would expect a cleaner to have knowledge and experience of best methods of cleaning woodwork/tiles/bathrooms.

[southeastelectric]

Tax

Insurance

Products

Travel expenses

Time wasted to travel between clients

And holiday pay which cleaner doesn't get ...

It comes to very little pay afterwards

Let my add that not everyone would clean someone elses dirty toilets

[LondonMix]

What a xenophobic post. Why do you assume your cleaner is an illegal immigrant? Most of the cleaners around here are British or are from the EU and are therefore here legally.

I'm not sure if your comment about which economy you are supporting relates to remittances or the black economy but either way you have no idea and immigrants sending money back to support family in their home countries is nothing at all to bash.

In general immigrants have higher levels of employment and lower levels of benefit claiming that the native British population so your rant is just another display of your ignorance.

As others have said, travel time between jobs effectively reduces the 10-11 quid an hour quite considerably as there is no pay for travel between jobs.

[rendelharris]

"We could all take the moral high ground but I expect loads of you pay cash in hand for manual work in particularly building."

I expect they do Malumbu (having only recently moved from a service charge funded block I have yet to face the temptation) but that's not quite the same as saying "I'm only paying you minimum wage because you're bound to be on the fiddle, may be here illegally and are probably claiming benefits," which is what the OP was saying.

[malumbu]

Just presenting an alternative view....

Not necessarily mine.

But I think that cleaning has a certain element of skill (or dexterity, determination or whatever). Something that I am not very good at and similarly very slow.

Similarly painting, wallpapering and the like. I can do them all, but many of those charging much less for their time ar far better.

Does it matter that I can (occasionally) put together a reasonend argument, evaluate evidence, use equations, come to an agreed way forward etc when my house is dirty and the paint/paper is peeling?

[lordshiplaney]

I would rather go through a company than pay someone cash, that's just me...

[KidKruger]

What's with cleaning being seen as 'unskilled' ?!

The better you are at it, the faster you go, so you cover more surfaces / rooms.

I was a cleaner for 2yrs in Central London and took pride in my work, I was commended on the results I got, I was skilled (not as good as many though) at what I did - loos, hoovering, mirrors (with ammonia) and washing woodwork.

Also I did a year as a dishwasher, all by hand, including large pots.

For such ability to be dismissed is preposterous.

If someone had called me unskilled at the time they'd have been laid out right there.

What utter claptrap !

The OP has to be a wind-up, people who think like that don't really exist.

Don't fall for it.

[Seabag]

Wind up

[LondonMix]

I thought it might be a wind-up too but looking at the ad she posted for a cleaner and the rest of her posting history suggests not, which makes this all the worse.

[Mrs Nice]

Dear Karen,

Do rethink how you put your words out there. Cleaning is a profession and a skill - done even by the people who have university degree who sometimes find themselves in certain situations when they are abroad away from home. And in most times even people who have doctorates degrees cannot do the job nearly as good as the ones you call unskilled and undeserving of ?10- ?15 wage.

Regarding your illegal status comment- you totally blew your plead for sympathy. So you do not want to pay them the going rate because they are "illegal" and "unskilled" according to your assessment but if they accept the amount you want to pay - then it's okay to hire them. You're twisted and discriminative. I have friends who clean and nanny for a living - they get ?60k to ?70k a year. And they go around the world doing this job.

You should clean your own floor with all that dirt and dust and see if you would do that for ?4-?7 per hour. And please post it here with your picture with all smiles after and we'll let you know if you did a good job with your great cleaning skill.

[Sue]

Mrs Nice Wrote:

>

> Regarding your illegal status comment- you totally

> blew your plead for sympathy. So you do not want

> to pay them the going rate because they are

> "illegal" and "unskilled" according to your

> assessment but if they accept the amount you want

> to pay - then it's okay to hire them. You're

> twisted and discriminative.

.,..,..........

>

> You should clean your own floor with all that dirt

> and dust and see if you would do that for ?4-?7

> per hour. And please post it here with your

> picture with all smiles after and we'll let you

> know if you did a good job with your great

> cleaning skill.

Yep.

I don't think it is a wind up as she did actually advertise for a cleaner.

Hope the responses will make her look hard at her attitude to the people she employs.

[southeastelectric]

.

[southeastelectric]

This person is so full of herself!

It may sound rude (and I don't think I've ever said that before)

But I'd slap her !

And I know I won't do that

But decided to pm her the link to what people say about her opinion of all "unskilled" workers

..

(Models, footballers, actors, builders, musicians etc ....

And of course cleaners)