Solidarity instead of smugness please

[Fi from West Dulwich]

Feeling a bit sorry for myself this evening, after seeing a very nice but frankly a bit superior friend, and it has made me beg to ask the question, Why are some mothers smug and not supportive? I'm delighted to hear that some lucky people get a full night's sleep every night, and that their child wouldn't dream of bashing another around the head with a bucket (still on at least 3 wakes a night, and guilty to the latter), but I hate leaving a chat feeling, frankly, a bit despondent, after hearing that everything is perfect in their life. I am not complaining about my lot - I consider myself lucky indeed with Master O, who for what he lacks in docility certainly makes up for in character and charm, but I suppose my confidence is rocked a bit when confronted by other people's presentation of perfection. I don't think parenthood is ever 100% rosy all of the time, so why can't the smug ones just admit to the odd chink in their armour and make the rest of us feel a bit more supported? Does anyone else feel like this or am I just being a tired old grump tonight?

If I am completely honest with myself, I think that perhaps I feel a bit insecure when I hear how brilliant other people are at motherhood because I had a fairly poor birth experience and felt a bit bamboozled afterwards. I felt deeply protective of O from the beginning and I didn't have PND or anything even approaching it, but nor did I have the post-delivery euphoria that I had hoped for and the feelings of deep connection with him came a couple of weeks later. We have more than made up for it since, and indeed he is, I think, a glowing testimonial to the powers of attachment parenting, but I find it hard to stop the memories of the beginning clouding how I judge myself, and I supppose that makes me more sensitive to the smugness of others. This forum is a brilliant example of how supportive fellow mothers can be; I'd love to see a bit more of that in day to day life. Or perhaps I simply need to get some less smug friends?!

[gwod]

Chin up Fi, her time will come! Even if her most excellent progeny are treating her well right now, remember that, just as it is with your son's bashing with said bucket and nightime wakefulness - its just a phase.....

You've only to decide whether, when the tables are turned, you will be supportive or smug!!

[Belle]

I know the kind of thing you're referring to and I hate it too, but I tend to avoid it as much as poss in people. I've definitely gravitated to the mums/dads who are upfront about the difficult times. Of course everyone does have times when things are going well, so mums shouldn't feel they have to lie or pretend things are awful, but it's about how it's presented - completely agree with you.

[tiddles]

the latter I think!! to be honest you really need some decent honest friends to share your equally "god I am hopeless at this" stories with mirth and a complete lack of judgement. I have had some of the best times with my friends, weeping with laughter as we out do each other in the bad mother stakes - I should hasten to add we all love our children dearly!! I rather suspect your marvellous friend is actually just as crap as the rest of us but cannot admit it. Let's face it - I think most of us find having a child a complete shock - sleep deprivation, chaos, lack of control, mess along with the "I had NO idea it would be like this!" feeling. I do not know of anyone who genuinely feels they are doing it right - just finding their way as they go! Do not worry, you are normal, your mate is not.

[malleymoo]

Smug friends .... I think most of us have experienced this and I am definately in the find less smug freinds camp. I would rather turn to my freind with whom I have had many hilarious nights chatting about the horrors of parenting than one of my more perfect friends. i find myself increasingly suspicious of those who can not let mask slip and admit that at times parenting is hard unglamourous work. Ive also had 2 exceptionally smug and "perfect" friends 1 whom i later discovered was a victim of domestic abuse. The other had a child who slept through the night from an early age whilt my little angel didnt perfect it till she was 2 but by the time my little one got into a fantastic sleeping pattern and has remained a great sleeper my friends little girl began havingvery disrupted sleep normally leading to some form of tantrum in the early hours of the morning and even now at 10 has a terrible sleep pattern. This particular friend took ages to admit there was a problem as it was so hard to admit she wasnt finding everything easy ! I guess what I mean to highlight is that as a parent if you dont have it rough at one age there is a very good chance you will get it at a later point and i suspect those of us who are prepared to take the rough with the smooth stand more chance of seeing these incidents in a more realistic light and hopefully be more resiliant....... Oh I really hope so especially with teenage years just around the corner !Yikes

[dulwichmum]

Lovely Fi,

Welcome to West Dulwich! Holy hell but some people are smug and need a good slap. I am completely with malleymoo, I have several similar stories of my own, of friends who would never "let the mask slip" - parenting is not a picnic, and if it is easy for one at a particular stage, it may be hard for them when the poppet gets older. My daughter didn't sleep for 3 and a half years, but you could put the vacuum on next to her now and she wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Hold onto your hat. It gets better. Be honest about how you feel, not everyone is a Dulwichmum. Do you really want to be around people who make you feel bad? Steer well clear, at least until you feel stronger.

[Trish]

Fi, no parent has it easy all of the time, no matter what they say. It's the hardest job in the world and there's no right or wrong say to do it. What gets you through the tough times is finding out everyone else has an equally ridiculous story to tell about thei child's behaviour/their own parenting skills. As with most things in life, the ability to laugh at those situations in hindsight is invaluable....but so is exchanging advice and experiences with other mums.

[kristymac1]

having a similar conversation with my mam when my daughter was very little along the lines of 'God why is everyone else's baby such good sleepers?', my Mam simply said 'they're lying.' Not sure how true it was but I hung on to that and it did make a smidgeon of a difference.

Btw, my daughter is now 3 1/2 and still doesn't sleep so well (spent a couple of hours up with her last night), I've understood for quite a while now that some little'uns are good sleepers, some are not (and there's naff all I could do to change that - believe me I tried....) - but she more than makes up for it when she's awake, she's funny, kind, charming and gorgeous of course (said in a very smug way I don't mind admitting!).

I think from your earlier posts your little one is still quite wee and your posts always seem to be those of a very good, natural mother - I bet you're a damn sight better at this business than you think you are x

[ryedalema]

Fi - totally understand the 'despondent' feeling. I've just spent 3 days with a friend who made me feel like a bad Mum on a number of occasions - while her own skills and little one were the models of perfection. Her own child had faults (which of course ours do too and my parenting skills are patchy at best) but I tried my damnedest not to make her feel bad about her own one's foibles.

I think I try and overcompensate when others 'peacock' about their kids. At our nursery the other day the manager came over and told me that their Ofsted inspector had been and given great feedback about their services, instinctively I said 'Oh - you must have locked C & C in a cupboard while they were around then'.

Why did I do that? I don't actually think they're monsters. They have their moments but are good kids really. Fi and all - your/our kids are beautiful, curious creatures - none of them perfect, anyone who makes us feel bad, insecure or unaccomplished is projecting their own insecure feelings.

It's low behaviour - and I say back away! Back into that gorgeous happy place you share with your own angels and demons.

One for all and all for one xxxxx

[Polly D]

You have my total support and sympathy Fi but has this woman been a friend for a while, and is she often smug and superior about life, i.e. work, home etc? Maybe she's just not your cup of tea as a person.

Nothing worse than coming away feeling like you're the only one in the world who feels the way you do about your role as a parent, if it's at all negative but I think we know, if only by looking at the kindred spirits on this 'ere forum, that we're not alone.

Take a look at this blog written by a friend of mine in Costa Rica for some chuckles and light relief:

http://1000reasonsimabadmom.com/

[JessB]

I feel for you Fi, having felt similarly insecure etc after meeting with some other mother-friends. I have found that often people present what they want you to see of their lives, and the way I try to deal with it without losing someone who might be a good friend in some other ways, is by thinking that if that makes them feel better and that is how they cope with things, then so be it. Often you may get hints that things are not as rosey as they seem in their lives. I tend to be a bit of an open book, but others aren't. I have a similarly shall we say"energetic" boy, who is charming and cheeky in equal measure, and we tend to spend most of our time with lovely non-smug people now, but that doesn't mean that your friend can't have a place in your life, just perhaps not the place they had previously occupied. I agree with Dulwichmum - step back until you feel in control of how you deal with this friend!

[Fi from West Dulwich]

Thank you for this and indeed all other lovely posts, which quite cheered me up this morning. The funny thing is, I DO genuinely feel that I am doing a good job as a mother, and I really enjoy little O, so I really shouldn't let it bother me - and yes, as many people have suggested, she is pretty smug about most things in life, so I should have known by now what to expect. I think perhaps when you are so keen to do something well you make yourself more prone to self doubt. In my stronger moments I just laugh, but yesterday she caught me off guard.

I do also find it quietly amusing such people let slip about the reality behind closed doors; this friend yesterday interestingly divulged that one day early on her husband found her weeping because all she had achieved was to hang up one sock - rather different from the picture she painted at the time, which was all "I'm getting more sleep now than before the baby was born". She is a good friend in many ways, but I would so love for other mothers to drop their guard and cheerfully admit when they are tearing their hair out, which, let's be honest, we all do at some point. I have other friends with whom I have hysterics as we try to outdo each other with our offspring's ghastly antics - SO much more fulfilling!

-------------------------------------------------------

> I feel for you Fi, having felt similarly insecure

> etc after meeting with some other mother-friends.

> I have found that often people present what they

> want you to see of their lives, and the way I try

> to deal with it without losing someone who might

> be a good friend in some other ways, is by

> thinking that if that makes them feel better and

> that is how they cope with things, then so be it.

> Often you may get hints that things are not as

> rosey as they seem in their lives. I tend to be a

> bit of an open book, but others aren't. I have a

> similarly shall we say"energetic" boy, who is

> charming and cheeky in equal measure, and we tend

> to spend most of our time with lovely non-smug

> people now, but that doesn't mean that your friend

> can't have a place in your life, just perhaps not

> the place they had previously occupied. I agree

> with Dulwichmum - step back until you feel in

> control of how you deal with this friend!

[SteveT]

With the 'perfect mum' variety one has to invite other 'perfects' with them so they can out do each other.

I found that the aunts I had like that were a pain to be around, but the ones who had doubts about themselves and their own performances were much nicer to be with.

They are the type of people who when invited for supper I produce something which has to be eaten with the fingers, because it is difficult to maintain an uptight, stiff upper lip position when you have a greasy sticky sauce dripping from ones hands and chin.

Some people are very good salesmen when talking about their lives and selling how wonderful it all is.

The facts are real life aint like that, and the people who have to crow about it are usually shakey about themselves, but it takes all sorts to make a world.

[berryberry]

yeah, I think motherhood is hard on everyone. My son sleeps through most of the time but I'm still tired and have a woefully messy house. I think the more insecure the mummy the more they seek to rouse the green monster of envy of the tired and overworked. Its just sad and rude.

West dulwich is odd. I can't help feel in the playgrounds, streets, forum and general blah there is the overwhelming air of "what people think of me" as opposed to any connective spirit. I get the looks of disapproval and the judging and its tiring.

[plimsoul]

i think perfect mums are like toxic mums, they just make the rest of us feel like we're not getting something. sod them, what's the point of friendship if discussion isn't a 2 way street: where ever and what ever nothing is perfect in life.

[snowboarder]

Hmm have to say I have mostly avoided smug mums - I haven't met too many - I think there are also some people for whom motherhood has come very easily and they love every minute - they are different but sometimes just as hard to take!! I'm pretty open about thinking this is the hardest job I have ever had - and am only just recovering enough now to think if I knew before what I now know I would still have children - this was not the case for about the first year of my baby's life!! I do tend rather towards the self deprecating though - most people I know do too!

[Fi from West Dulwich]

Well well done on you for your honesty, it makes it much easier for others to admit to having off days. So much of the propoganda of parenthood gives it a Little White Company makeover but some of it was rather a rude shock to me. I adore my child and I thrive on looking after him, but I don't pretend that it is always easy and I still miss the order from my previous existence. It is sometimes hard to acknowledge that without feeling as if you are letting the side down or failing in some way, when you come against someone resolutely intent on projecting an image of perfection. I did laugh though when I spotted someone whom I had previously labelled as Horribly Smug upon first meeting her, after having to endure several minutes of hearing how wonderful her child was, only to spot her berating same said child fiercely in the library for being a perfect brat. If she had been a little more human the first time I had met her I might have been more inclined to jump in and offer her a hand or at least grimace in sympathy, but as it was I just smirked childishly.

[womanofdulwich]

I think too that when you think other mums are so great they judge things differntly to us. I had a freind who loved her babies and everythign was great- but when she came with young family for sunday lunch she let the baby cry herself to sllep for 20 mins. I could not relax and yet she thought it was all fine and that made me realise that being a parent is such a personal thing. Whilst my crying threshold day time would be a few minutes she was quite relaxed about it. I could not relax about it- even though I tried to. What you migh stress about is not what others do and you are all ok. ( mine are teenagers now and things do get better!)

[cuppa tea]

I can so relate to this problem. I have a couple of smug friends myself and it drives me mad. I don't understand how anyone can find it easy and if they say they do they must surely be lying! Also children are all different and some are definitely more challenging than others. The thing is that the character traits that make it very difficult for us to parent are the same traits that will really help them to become successful and independent adults. Or so I tell myself on the dark days! I don't think I would want my little one to be any different in the slightest. I love the vitality, cheekiness, curiosity and sheer rebelliousness of him. He has spirit aplenty. What I don't like is other parents with naturally more compliant children assuming that such and such a behaviour is caused by my parenting, when what it is is just a development stage and will pass. I mostly try and avoid parents who are too uptight as frankly they are no fun to hang out with. Kids can be hilarious and the horror stories are the best (in retrospect!). I think this friend is very selfish to keep these to herself!

[Ruth_Baldock]

I have a few 'friends' that make me feel like I am drowning, and have no idea what I'm doing. Hadn't seen one of them for a while and she said 'Oh, is he (baby baldock) STILL not doing 7-7?'. Well, no, he isn't and whilst it's exhasting- you know what? He is only 8 months old, a tiny boy really. It's okay. Same friend literally scolded me for intentionally night weaning and for letting Baby have a chip or two off my plate when I have lunch. IT IS A CHIP, NOT A SODDING HYPODERMIC NEEDLE.

I had a similarly haunting birth experience and do get all defensive and worried re: my son and my parenting, too. In short, 'friends' that are smug and make you question yourself aren't friends really. My two best Mummy friends readily admit that they're children aren't champion sleepers, frequently chuck avocado at the floor and admit to doing things like 'ust scrubbing minor poo stains off the babygro with a wipe...'.

You're doing fine. I love hearing all about Little Mr O. He sounds like a hoot!

[woofmarkthedog]

Fi...

If it makes you feel better...

All Children get Nits

So patience my dear

W**F