TFLs response re Barry Road Bus stand.

[Pugwash]

TFL wishes to change the bus stand outside Christ Church which is operational from 11pm - 8 am to a 24/7 bus stand making this the 4th bus stand in the area (LL/Friern/Friern/Etherow Street)

There was never any incorrect signage it was always meant to be night time only to reduce the number of buses standing in Etherow Street at night.

Please read below;-

Thank you for your email.

The Barry Road bus stand was sited at this location with the intention of being used as a normal bus standing point, during the day and night. Unfortunately, we have until now been unable to use the stand in the manner for which it was intended as the signage installed at this stand incorrectly advised that it would be in use from 23:00 to 08:00 only. As cars, vans and other vehicles began to use the stand, it was not possible for us to have the clearway enforced since the sign advertising the stand?s hours of operation was incorrect.

While the incorrect sign remained in place LB Southwark parking enforcement officers have been unable to enforce the stand if they found vehicles parking within our operation times. This effectively prevented buses from using the stand outside the hours shown on the sign since the stand was regularly blocked by parked vehicles. The new signage that we are looking to place here is aimed to correct this historic error. It will enable the parking restrictions to be enforced and allow the stand to be used as it was originally intended.

While we do appreciate the comments of groups who have, until now, used this space to park, this site was and is intended as a bus stand and our agreement with LB Southwark to site the stand here was based on the understanding it would be in use at all times.

Over the last 12 to 18 months, as development work has continued at an unprecedented level across the Capital, our available bus standing space has been severely impacted, as older stands have been removed or made unavailable for prolonged periods of time. We have had to route buses to other nearby locations, which has increased the pressure on our remaining operational bus stands. It is important to note that by using the Barry Road bus stand at its intended capacity, we will be able to accommodate more vehicles in the area, reducing unnecessary diversions and ultimately maintain a more reliable bus network. This is of undoubted benefit to bus passengers.

I appreciate the concerns over the road width at Barry Road. However, I can assure Caroline that as with all our bus stands, this location was inspected thoroughly by both ourselves along with representatives from LB Southwark and the police to ensure that the area was suitable. Provided that the stand is used appropriately we are unaware of any issues with its use. If the constituent, or any residents do observe an issue, we?d be very grateful for the full details (including date, time of day and registration number of any buses involved) so we can raise it with the relevant operator.

With regards to welfare facilities available to drivers; I can confirm that what is referred to as a portaloo at Friern Road is a permanent, robust toilet unit with running water and electricity that is connected to the public sewer. It has been in situ at the Friern Road bus stand for more than six years and is cleaned daily by our cleaning contractor. We also have dedicated maintenance contractors to attend to electrical and plumbing faults. I have made our maintenance team aware of the concerns raised by Ms xxxx and they will visit the facilities to ensure they are up to the required standard.

Regarding the concerns raised about the traffic signals at the junction of Barry Road and Lordship Lane; I can confirm that we have checked the operation of the signals and found them to be working as expected without any faults. However, we are aware that at times it can become very busy with high traffic flows on opposite approaches to the junction, in addition to heavy pedestrian flows. In October 2015, to help balance the needs of all road users we installed our intelligent signal technology SCOOT at this junction, which uses detectors in the road to allow signal timings to adapt automatically in response to traffic conditions in real-time.

During the implementation of the SCOOT system, our engineers monitored the performance of the traffic signals and observed that the timings were configured appropriately in order to reduce delays as effectively as possible. However, once the school half term is finished and traffic levels have returned to normal levels, we will revisit this location to ensure that the right balance is being achieved and investigate the potential to further alleviate the congestion that Ms xxxx highlights.

I hope this is helpful.

Kind regards

Andrew Hatch

Communications & Engagement

Managing Director's Office

[intexasatthe moment]

Mmm,I'd be more reassured and have more confidence in all the checking and assesment referred to by TFL if they were not an organisation who apparently managed to have a completely incorrect sign erected and left in place for ( as far as I can tell from Google streetview ) at least 8 years

[MarkT]

Pugwash,

you say that the night time only signage was not "incorrect" as is claimed now by TFL. Do you know if there was a publicised ruling such as a Traffic Management Order?

If such a public order supported TFL's claim, why do they not now quote it?

The TFL letter states that changing the sign will "allow the stand to be used as it was originally intended." and "our agreement with LB Southwark to site the stand here was based on the understanding it would be in use at all times."

Were Southwark and TFL agreed or is this carefully worded to give a false impression that Southwark shared with TFL that understanding and intention? Who erected the sign? Is TFL now saying that Southwark is incompetent? Think if the lost opportunities for parking fines.

Is TFL now consulting the public on this matter? Why would they need to do so if they have the right to change the sign?

MarkT

[intexasatthe moment]

spot on as usual Mark !

[Pugwash]

Buses have never stood in Barry Road outside Christ Church at any time in the day - it was an alighting point originally for 78 bus route and for 312/12's terminating at Dulwich Plough. The buses then went round the block to park in Etherow Street. Following complaints from Etherow Street residents some 15/20 years ago re noise from engines running late at night - the buses were allowed to park late night/ early morning on Barry Road instead.

With the coming of the night buses - the Barry Road site was designated a stand from 11 pm - 8 am.

Christ Church have a letter from Southwark which was written in response to the traffic enforcement officers trying to book motorists and also bus crews trying to park in the stand, who confirmed that this was a night bus stand only.

I do not know whether a Traffic Management Order exists. I believe that Barry Road is a Southwark 'managed road' and not TFL and Southwark probably put the signs up several years ago and no mention has been made over the years that this bus stand was to be a 24/7 stand. In the past the Police were asked to intervene between traffic enforcement officers and car drivers and they researched the relevant laws/by laws and stated that cars were legitimately parked on the stand after 8 am and before 11pm. Talking with the local police officer recently, I was informed that parking issues were now the full responsibility of Southwark.

If TFL felt that signage was incorrect why wait several years before challenging it.

[James Barber]

Latest response I have...

"

Hi James,

I was hoping to be back to you sooner; please accept our apologies for the delay. A quick update is that our Buses team representative is speaking with the Urban Design team at Southwark Council.

They are working towards an agreement which we anticipate will be mutually beneficial to all concerned.

I will keep you informed as soon as I've been notified."

The email chain started 11 October when I was first contacted. My response was the part-time bus stand inst required. That the bus route numbers bus stands should be change to any bus stands. Where the Barry Road bus stand currently sits should be changed - probably disabled parking space and general parking. I'd welcome others views on this.

[intexasatthe moment]

My gut reaction is yes yes to disabled parking .I don't know if it's just me but I haven't grasped that TFL actually have a problem that needs resolving .

They say

"Over the last 12 to 18 months, as development work has continued at an unprecedented level across the Capital, our available bus standing space has been severely impacted, as older stands have been removed or made unavailable

for prolonged periods of time.""

this seems very unspecific ,what development work are they talking about ? Is it the bike super and quiet ways ? I can't think ( doesn't mean there aren't any ) of other works to roads . Though on going road repair I guess impacts on the short term .

"We have had to route buses to other nearby locations, which has increased the pressure on our remaining operational bus stands."

Again ,to me ,this seems very vague . I'm not familiar with the location of other bus stands near Barry Rd,it would be good if TFL could say which ones they are talking about .Or is it a domino effect from other problems with bus stands ...does it work like that ?

"It is important to note that by using the Barry Road bus stand at its intended capacity, we will be able to accommodate more vehicles in the area, reducing unnecessary diversions and ultimately maintain a more reliable bus network."

Again ,I'd like some meat on the bones ,some detail - like we've had to divert nos x,y,and z because bus stands A,B,and C were out of action .

Have other locations been considered ? Is there any potential around the Nigel Rd /top of Rye Lane area ?

[James Barber]

Hi ITATM,

TfL have suggested utter tosh for the site involved.

We've had no local development to make bus stands within the area less available.

They've no re routed any buses to other bus stands. They've obviously cut and pasted an irrelevant letter.

They've still not de numbered specific bus stands for specific bus routes- they created this to support bendy buses - removing this needless sub division would free capacity up at existing bus stands.

They've also said in writing they need this bustard 24.7 to be near the facilities. The facilitates at the souther end of Friern Road which it took me three years to get in place fighting TfL all the way. Importantly I doubt bus drivers would walk from Barry road to these FRiern Road facilities. So their argument really works against keeping the current overnight bus stand.

If they wish to proceed then it could be the first traffic scheme where a ward councillor gets to call the decision in - local traffic management schemes are no longer decided by ward councillors but centralised to a cabinet councillor. We can also formally object to any traffic notice. Push comes to shove take more direct action against this ridiculous TfL proposition.