An unusual letter from King's College Hospital

[cate]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> As Ladymuck said

> they have, after all, used data from patients'

> medical records to send them unsolicited mailings

> in pursuit of charitable donations.

> My 90 year old mum ( recent patient ,and sorry to

> say did not receive very good treatment ) also got

> one .

> She was distinctly upset by it and felt vulnerable

> that information about her recent in patient

> status was being used for non medical purposes .

I can see that your mum would be upset, especially if she didn't have good treatment. Are you going to contact the hospital about the letter. I was thinking I might write back without putting a stamp on the letter and say sorry, no, totally brassic.

[dulwichmum]

Surely they are in breach of the data protection act? How dare they avail of our medical records to contact us in our homes. I think that this is totally out of order.

[ruffers]

Schools, hospitals etc have always tried to raise money through fetes, bring and buy sales or whatever. What's the issue here?

That they're trying to raise funds or a guy with a high salary signed the letter? (And some are assuming that just because he's well paid he doesn't contribute.)

[sofaRunner]

SteveT Wrote:

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> When reading such letters I often wonder how much

> their chief executive will donate, not a lot would

> be the reply.

>

> I used to supply this hospital with British made

> equipment and then they started to buy from an

> American maufacturer for almost twice the price,

> for what many considered to be inferior equipment.

>

>

> No, I would not give a penny until they tighten up

> the wastage on what they spend on equipment, but

> more especially on the middle management

> administrators who seem to have proliferated in

> recent years but do not improve the service one

> bit.

>

this is really infuriating thread! why is are some so ready to slate the nhs??? what evidence have you that there is a proliferation of middle managers & your assertion that they 'do not improve the service one bit'? & no, before you ask - I am not a middle manager. if any of you have been local for any length of time you will be aware how much Kings has improved in the past decade or so.... not to mention the nhs as a whole. remember the 3year waits for hip replacememtns of old?? that's not the case now & who do you think will have organised that - it wasn;t the surgeons they were busy operating while the don't improve the service middle managers organised one-stop clinics, assessment before admission so patients don;t get cancelled on the operation day & so theatre lists are left empty.

as for whether the CEO donates to his place of work is none of your business & entirely irrelevant. If you're not happy with the letter - write back to him & say so....... you'll get a reply

PS matrons have been bought back

[expat]

I doubt they used medical records. It would I think be illegal and I've not got a letter despite me being all over the records.

[Ladymuck]

What records would they have used - if not medical records? Are you thinking - electoral register for example?

[Ladymuck]

PS: but you've made a good point - I assumed medical records...

[expat]

well if people signed something including a disclaimer that their address could be used either at Kings or at the GP for example.

I've received a questionnaire about my care making clear I did not have to fill it in it would not affect my treatment. No letter asking for money,if they use medical records why not mine as I would seem a prime candidate to give them some?

[Ladymuck]

expat Wrote:

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> No letter asking for money,if

> they use medical records why not mine as I would

> seem a prime candidate to give them some?

Well, assuming they have used medical records (though as you point out they may not have), they could have simply randomly picked out a certain percentage of contact details (I doubt very much they would write to everyone on its books in such a situation - would they?:-S). Also, (I would hope) that if you are currently an "active" patient of theirs, that to contact you for funds might be deemed by the CE as inappropriate - not to mention insensitive. I don't know...I'm just guessing here...

[annaj]

If anyone is concerned about where and how personal information has been shared, or has any other questions about the letter, I would suggest contacting the King's Patient Advice and Liaison Service. Or have a look at the fundraising page on the King's website.

[Ladymuck]

Thank you annaj. I have now emailed the fundraising dept. at Kings with regard to the source of their contacts vis a vis the fundraising letter in question.

I shall keep the forum updated via this thread.

[dulwichmum]

annaj Wrote:

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> If anyone is concerned about where and how

> personal information has been shared, or has any

> other questions about the letter, I would suggest

> contacting the King's Patient Advice and Liaison

> Service. Or have a look at the fundraising page on

> the King's website.

Thanks, that is really helpful. I will wait to see what Ladymuck hears back. I went to Kings for the first time in 8 years last month and then I got the letter. I think it is all too much of a coincidence if they have not used my medical records to contact me.

[Ladymuck]

I've since also emailed PALS with the same question - so hopefully I should hear from someone. We shall see.

[ImpetuousVrouw]

I think iif I were to receive a begging letter from Kings which said that there was a finding crisis and the senior managers had responded by accepting a paycut but also need donations from the public, then I might be more inclined to look on their letter charitably. The fact that the senior managers are so well paid out of our taxes would prevent me wanting to donate anything.

[intexasatthe moment]

A small point - I didn't keep the letter ,was trying to make light of it and reassure mother ,but ...

from memory the wording struck me as odd ( and I now think a kind of sneaky get out in case criticisms of " cold calling " raised ) something about only wanting to update people who were interested and a request for a returned form to indicate interest .

Will be interested in reply from Kings fund raising dept .

[Huguenot]

Do some of you guys not think you're going a bit overboard with this?

The NHS and Kings are clearly funded through tax payer revenues - which isn't a bottomless pit. I've no doubt that they subdivide those things that they can do into three or more priorities: perhaps those which are critical, those which are important, and those which are simply 'nice to have' for example.

Both the government we elect, and the leaders of the KCH Trust will be making daily well informed decisions on how to allocate and wisely spend their 200m annual budget.

As a result there are always going to be projects that don't quite make the cut.

It doesn't seem unreasonable that these caring, enthusiastic institutions should appeal to the goodwill of the public to help them achieve these projects.

They're not threatening anyone, but undoubtedly these projects won't happen without private funding and they'd like to see if anyone else wants to help out.

I guess you are quite within your rights to decline to respond to the appeal because you haven't got available funds, or simply that you don't agree with their priorities. There's absolutely nothing to get 'offended' about.

Regarding the source of your address, I recall filling in a zillion forms when I last visited a hospital. It's not unlikely that one of these might have had a box on saying 'tick if you don't want to receive correspondance from KCH'

In fact I kinda feel that it is a wee bit unreasonable to assume that the hospitals are committing a crime in appealling for funds, that the managers are all bastards, to launch personal attacks on the CEO, and then tie up hospital administration and NHS funds in responding to unhelpful demands for unnecessary information and possibly vexatious litigation.... isn't it?

Only teasing, like :)

[intexasatthe moment]

For me it's nothing to do with Kings asking for charitable funds , I can cope with that .

It's the link ( and there does seem to be one ) with being a recent inpatient and beiong contacted regarding a non medical issue .

I was with my mother when she was admitted and she wasn't asked to sign any forms - and she wouldn't have known what she was signing or agreeing to unless someone had patiently gone through each question with her . And even then ,bearing in mind her physical and mental state ,I don't think she'd have known she was agreeing to Kings contacting her re fundraising .

My mother is a very private person and very wary of giving her details out to people .

She is unnerved by what she perceives as a " Big Brother " society ,monitoring her movements .

This is just another thing to upset and worry her .

My concern is with where and how Kings obtained contact details and how they selected addresses for this mailshot .

[Huguenot]

Well gosh, it's not unreasonable that KCH thinks that those most likely to support them are those that have made recent use of their services!!

There seems to be an underlying and unnecessarily cynical assumption that KCG have been up to no good.

I think you'll probably find that they are fully aware of the data protection act, and whilst your mum's been weirded out, you do seem to agree that this is a pretty unusual response?

This letter is in a good cause and entirely well meant. I can't understand what people expect to gain from this attack? It could only be a reduction in support for Kings, and an NHS that is walking on eggshells every time they want to do something constructive to improve their services.

This type of bullying from the public can only damage the appeal of the NHS and lower the calibre of employees, resulting in a consequent downgrading of NHS services.

I can't believe that you want to burn up NHS funds that should be spent on treating people on defending such an essentially innocuous and harmless request to support their charity?

People do complain about the NHS spending on bureaucracy, and then we've got demands like this being made. Doesn't make any sense.

[intexasatthe moment]

Well gosh, it's not unreasonable that KCH thinks that those most likely to support them are those that have made recent use of their services!!

- slightly galling though that lack of joined up thinking /failure to treat patient holistically saw this particular user of their services readmitted weeks after discharge .

And I think it's innappropriate to use medical records in this way .

[Huguenot]

Well I can see your point.

I just think that 'using medical records in this way' is overplaying it a bit.

I think I'd consider misuse of medical records as telling one's neighbours one has the clap, rather than sending a letter asking if I'd care to contribute to the new brain scanner appeal (or whatever).

Besides, there's no reason to consider that a hospital only has medical records, I'm sure they have administrative records also.

[sofaRunner]

ImpetuousVrouw Wrote:

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> I think iif I were to receive a begging letter

> from Kings which said that there was a finding

> crisis and the senior managers had responded by

> accepting a paycut but also need donations from

> the public, then I might be more inclined to look

> on their letter charitably. The fact that the

> senior managers are so well paid out of our taxes

> would prevent me wanting to donate anything.

the expectation that the Kings management should take a cut in wages to support the hospital is ridiculous! Do you expect Oxfam or Guide dogs for the blind management to cut their salaries???? & the continued assurtion that management in the NHS are exceptionally well paid is absurd - where are you getting your ill-informed information or is it purely based on urban myths?

if we want the NHS to be function effectively then it has to pay it's employees close to the going rate. One could argue that the management do take a cut in salary by moving to the NHS - the seniors could certainly earn more in the open market.

the money raised through the Kings charity will go to kit & extras that wouldn;t be possible without support from neighbours. Don;t think it is alone in the requests for support this is happening in varying forms throughout the land & always has done. Hospitals have always relied on philanthrpists who are willing to contribute to the care of others - this is seen in the names of wards, departments etc. If you can't then don't.... but stop putting the hospital down for asking.

all that said - it is more than reasonable to ask personal information is being used

[ianr]

Huguenot Wrote:

> Besides, there's no reason to consider that a hospital only has medical records,

> I'm sure theyhave administrative records also.

Indeed. Enter Kings College Hospital in the name field at http://www.ico.gov.uk/ESDWebPages/search.asp and then press Search Register to get their Data Protection Register entry. The fundraising data information is listed under Purpose 8.

[Ladymuck]

SofaRunner, I do not think it is right to compare the likes of Oxfam or the GDFTB with KCH. The first two are not funded via general taxation and we have a choice as to whether or not we contribute towards their causes.

[Moos]

I got the letter also, and given that King's spent a lot of money on me in 2007 and that I'm a current outpatient, I'm not surprised that they wrote to me - I thought it was quite intelligent targeting.

[Ladymuck]

It could be seen as intelligent targeting to a certain extent, but is it proper?