Say NO to squirrel meat on the menu

[Chick]

I had a whale steak recently. It was horrible. It gave to my wife. I am also happy to poison rats when they infest my house.

[louisiana]

Indeed DJKQ. But those with better skills have maybe developed those skills by engaging in debates with those better equipped. It's a skill that is learned. I have to say, my criteria would be modified if I knew the person at the other end were 8 or 10: it's great when kids step into the adult world and get a letter into the newspaper, for example. But these days practically all adults have equal opportunities to develop their thinking skills, and many more go to university (for what that's worth), so I'm afraid I'm less forgiving of woolly or lazy thinking among adults.

[RosieH]

Shark infested suggests a level of aggression that just wasn't there. Clown-infested circus tent perhaps.

In the lounge, people ARE willing to debate. But some will always take the piss: it's why the Drawing Room was born. Read the thread about the Drawing Room and you will see that some people really want debate in the lounge (and I'm one of them).

Ignore the comedy and the dross if you're in earnest, and engage with those who genuinely engage with you. Or give it up, and have a laugh instead (easier to do when something doesn't matter to you so much). It's easy to huff (and I have) but it's more fun to partake.

[giggirl]

Shark infested waters of East Dulwich! Don't make me laugh; I'll have the jaws theme circling round my head as I'm tripping out of G&B later tonight.

Incidentally, Elvis used to eat a lot of squirrel when he was a boy. That's my erudite contribution. I wouldn't touch them though; they look shifty.

[aquarius moon]

I am not ignoring the posts or not responding to the messages, I simply do not spend all day on this site & do not have time to log in 24/7.

The reason for my original post is that I saw another thread about squirrel meat and wanted to make people aware of my opinion by asking them to view a website (viva.org.uk), so that they could also form their own opinions.

By making people aware of certain things, it may make them think twice before doing certain things eg. ordering squirrel from a menu.

I thought this forum was to give opinions, have freedom of speech in what you believe & try to get your point across, which is harder for people like me, who are a minority.

I believe in all types of animal welfare (not just squirrels).I mentioned foie gras because it is another thing that I feel

particularly strongly about. The suffering & pain of the ducks is unbelievable. People who eat/sell it are just encouraging the torture by doing so. Many are probably not even aware of how it is made & if they are educated, hopefully will feel the same as me. Hence my posts on here.

September 18th is a national day of action for foxes, when I will almost certainly be on here again, urging people to contact their MP's, asking them to back the hunting ban.

As for putting this in the wrong section, I didn't use the drawing room because I did not come on here for a debate, & yes,

my debating skills are not as good as some regular posters on here.

I came on here to try & speak up for the animals & neither me nor them deserve some of the flippant, unkind comments that have been made. Cruelty to animals is not a joke.

[Marmora Man]

AM - more research needed. Foie Gras from ducks is a substitute and not really the real thing - for that you need a goose and its liver. It's delicious lightly pan fried, served on a slice of toasted brioche with a glass of Sauterne.

If you want to shift opinion - in any forum, you must engage. On EDF just posing an opinion without a supporting case is little more than graffiti.

[Alec John Moore]

I apologise for introducing the shark image. I can't think of a more suitable one. Although I did say it is more like that sometimes and I do appreciate the value of EDF as a "local" online community. Clearly the OP has survived the experience and makes the point better than I. I hope to continue to partake in EDF in my own AJM way.

[gwod]

I would rather eat an animal that has lived it's life in the wild and been shot, than one than has been reared in a farm. Squirrel, deer, pheasant. More humane in my opinion

[louisiana]

A graffiti-covered shark? :-S

[aquarius moon]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> AM - more research needed. Foie Gras from ducks is

> a substitute and not really the real thing - for

> that you need a goose and its liver. It's

> delicious lightly pan fried, served on a slice of

> toasted brioche with a glass of Sauterne.

>

> If you want to shift opinion - in any forum, you

> must engage. On EDF just posing an opinion without

> a supporting case is little more than graffiti.

If I was to support my case surrounding the issues in my most recent post for example, it would take up the whole forum!

Exactly the reason why I quoted from a website, so that readers can see it for themselves.

I suggest you go to www.viva.org.uk, type foie gras into the 'search' section, and you may learn something.

[louisiana]

And pigeon, gwod. Don't forget woodpigeon.

[Alec John Moore]

MM, I doubt it is possible to shift opinion in any significant way on a forum such as this. The ability for posters to engage isn't helped by the pompous attitude towards the OP and the issues that s/he is trying displayed by some and the puerile and insensitive postings by others. This is what I mean by the tyranny of the meat eaters. Why should you and most of the others posting on this thread attempt to engage with the issues is fair handed way when you display such disdain for the subject and the attempts to raise it as an issue?

[Lawrence]

Normally not one to say boo to a goose but when it comes to veggies I couldn't give a flying duck.

"Tyranny of the meat eater"

What issue?

Bourdain on Foie;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABeWlY0KFv8&feature=related

It's quite educational, I thought I would post a video so readers can see for themselves.

[Alec John Moore]

Thanks, Lawrence. You help make my case.

[Lawrence]

Pleasure, not that you have made a case, or even a point. Save for the one about sharks, what is your problem with sharks anyway?

The OP like a website, but not meat, not sure what else this thread is about.

I find it hard to comprehend the support for non consumption of an animal destined for culling, but then maybe the issue is with the culling itself.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Notes 18th September: will harangue Hatty to reinstate fox hunting.

[louisiana]

Alec John Moore Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MM, I doubt it is possible to shift opinion in any

> significant way on a forum such as this. The

> ability for posters to engage isn't helped by the

> pompous attitude towards the OP and the issues

> that s/he is trying displayed by some and the

> puerile and insensitive postings by others. This

> is what I mean by the tyranny of the meat eaters.

> Why should you and most of the others posting on

> this thread attempt to engage with the issues is

> fair handed way when you display such disdain for

> the subject and the attempts to raise it as an

> issue?

Disdain for the subject? Hardly.

I've love either you or the OP to make a case. Any case.

What is your issue? Squirrels? That's in the subject line [instructing people what to do] but you've barely mentioned them.

There's a constant meandering from subject to subject, with no evidence presented, no structured argument, but plenty of accusations and loaded language (starting with the OP and his/her "massacres").

Why not make your case instead of constantly going on about how you can't, how there's no point? Why not just do it?

[aquarius moon]

Thankyou, AJM

[DJKillaQueen]

I'm a carnivore but I'm not tyranical. 'The tyranny of the meat easter' suggests all meat eaters are. I have a lot of time for the issues surrounding animal cruelty, and the environmental impact of some farming and fishing etc but don't think that is incompatible with being a carnivore. Instead I make ethical choices about what meat and fish I eat (I don't actually eat a lot of meat anyway but fish I do). The OP makes no distinction between animal cruelty and vegetarianism. In fact it was a post that used animal cruelty to promote vegetarianism and I think that's what the 'flippant' responses are a reaction to. Buy all means let's have a debate about the bad practises and their impact in food production, but let's not use that as an excuse to brand all meat eaters as somehow complicit in that process. The two things are seperate issues.

[Alec John Moore]

Louisiana, here's my OP on this thread:

A quick look at Viva's website shows that they are against eating meat (including fish) and dairy products since their production causes environmental destruction, damages human health and contributes to global hunger, as well as inflicting immense suffering on billions of animals across the world. She's not coming from a vegan/vegetarian point of view but Felicity Lawrence's investigations into the global nature of industrialised food production - Not on the Label and Eat Your Heart Out - are quite salutary when it comes to thinking about what we eat. What I find most interesting about this thread is what I think of as the tyranny of the meat eater. I'm sure it's quite a common social phenomenon that when an alternative view is expressed then the majority demonstrate their intolerance of it, quickly dismiss the point of view and begin to turn the thread into their own self referential banter.

[HonaloochieB]

To the tune of the original TV commercial.

#WHAT'S GOT A HAZELNUT IN EVERY BITE?#

Everyone - SQUIRREL SHIT!!

Though there may of course be a more raisined argument.

[ruffers]

What's the currant thinking on this?

[DJKillaQueen]

The OPost doesn't actually mention vegetarianism but it doesn't say either that as long as animals are humanely slaughtered that's ok. The emotive language suggests that the OP wants more than just the end of inhumane methods of slaughter but the subsequent post from the OP does indeed clarify that the intention of the thread is to discuss cruel methods of meat and fish production and not to encourage a debate of carnivore vs vegetarian. So let's respect that.

I do think the OP is correct in saying that there are many methods of food production that consumers are unaware of and given that the only way to force producers to change production methods is to stop buying what they produce then there's a debate to had. However so much of our meat and fish are produced so as to give us the cheapest prices possible. How do we ever change that?

[expat]

I looked at the viva website it seems long on emotional opinions and short on scientific arguments

[expat]

>A quick look at Viva's website shows that they are against eating meat (including fish) and dairy products since their >production causes environmental destruction, damages human health and contributes to global hunger, as well as inflicting >immense suffering on billions of animals across the world.

In viva's opinion.