I have a big confession to make!

[helena handbasket]

Karrie Wrote:

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> Dear J. Russel

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZ-SGljHik&feature

> =related

>

> I hope you?ve had a nice weekend off from

> trolling.

>

> While I am waiting for your paper?s code of

> ethics, so I can decide how I feel about your

> intrusion, I thought I?d view all your posts. I

> have done a summary of the profile that you

> portray to me. I have done it in a PDF format as a

> keep-sake for you, because you must be very proud

> of your achievements, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol,

> lol.

This says more about you than JRussell to tell you the truth.

[helena handbasket]

RosieH Wrote:

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> Karrie, has the "intrusion" really bothered you

> that much? Crikey.

>

> This made me think of something Impetuous said on

> another thread about people being bothered about

> real stuff, like the floods in Pakistan. Not

> directing that at you Karrie, but just finding it

> hard to care about trolling or otherwise in the

> broader (or indeed any) scheme of things.

Exactly.

Anyway, I'm starting to get the feeling that it's not the exposure that people are worried about as much not getting credit. Remember the dodgy/missing post thread? When the news folks used that on the evening news, forumites were giving the high-five up and down the lane. Any obscure reference to the forum used in the news is announced on here, and not once have I noticed anyone complain about a Code of Ethics.

Smells like sour grapes.

[DJKillaQueen]

Whilst jrussel thinks he doesn't have to take any notice of the rules of the forum (with regards to publication of content), by having such rules the forum claims copyright.

Just have some respect for those you are using to make you story jrussel and ask them first. After all you are bound to be making assumptions about posters and the tone and meaning of what they post, which may turn out to be so far from the mark as to cause insult. It's common sense.

[DJKillaQueen]

Just because something is in the public domain doesn't mean it can be reproduced at will.

[ianr]

louisiana Wrote:

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> ianr Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Mark, if it's verbatim reproduction (which is

> > different from "fair use" quotation)

>

> Ahem, "fair use" is a US legal concept which does

> not exist in English law.

I am indebted for that interjection.

For "fair use", please read "fair dealing" (the term used in the Copyright etc Act 1988) passim.

In defence of my use of the former term, I refer to the example (there are others) of its use at http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p09_fair_use .

[Brendan]

Why not? Next they?ll be saying that it is illegal to share music files of songs that are played regularly on the radio.

[louisiana]

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> louisiana Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > ianr Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Mark, if it's verbatim reproduction (which is

> > > different from "fair use" quotation)

> >

> > Ahem, "fair use" is a US legal concept which

> does

> > not exist in English law.

>

> I am indebted for that interjection.

:-$

Well it makes a change from bleedin jrussel and his/her Trolling Chronicles :)

>

> For "fair use", please read "fair dealing" (the

> term used in the Copyright etc Act 1988) passim.

Fair use (US law) explicitly includes commercial use; fair dealing (UK law) does not. The English concept is of much, much narrower application than the US one, and is in my experience consequently next to useless.

>

> In defence of my use of the former term, I refer

> to the example (there are others) of its use at

> http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p09_fa

> ir_use .

Your defence is a good one. That is a crapola page. Paragraphs 1-5 are not discussing any particular country ("National laws typically allow...", "will be governed by national laws" etc. kind of give the game away), but they don't explicitly say this in either heading or intro. They should have labelled the material accordingly (instead of just labelling (6) as UK).

Okay, rant over.

[Karrie]

I do not give you permission to quote anything Karrie has written on this thread, or any other thread. It's copyright between me and the owners of the forum.

[DJKillaQueen]

You are absolutely right Karrie. There is a moral obligation and as other posters are doing a good job of pointing out, a potentially legal obligation too. I am still dubious as to whether jrussel is anything he says he is to be honest.

[PeckhamRose]

I have a confession to make: I can not be arsed to read all seven pages, so just read pages 1, 6 and 7.

He typeth, "If any of you are uncomfortable with this, please register your feelings on this thread. I can not guarantee that requests will be met but I will do my best to accommodate them so long as the integrity and scope of my feature is not compromised."

I am thus registering my feelings. You are not allowed to quote anything PeckhamRose has written on this thread. It's copyright between me and the owners of the forum.

(And my name is not really Rose. And I found out I don't live in Peckham. I live in Nunhead. Came as quite a shock I can tell you.)

[Karrie]

Helena Handbasket wrote:

Karrie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dear J. Russel

... While I am waiting for your paper?s code of ethics, so I can decide how I feel about your intrusion, I thought I?d view all your posts. I have done a summary of the profile that you portray to me...<

This says more about you than JRussell to tell you the truth.

--------------------------

As I am about to retire for a while, and this thread is clearly all about perceptions, I?ve set you all a challenge to see if you can work out if this post is meant in a serious way, or as a joke and also what you think this post is accurately saying. Ready? Here goes.

Part one

I have a confession to make, which is addressed to all, not selecting anyone in particular. What you?ve seen me briefly doing here is actually just copying what I see occurs on this forum when people target what they ?perceive? loosely as a troll, which was the first and last time you will see me, so called, ?out? a troll, as it was done purely as an exercise to just to play along with this, so called, ?game?. This, unintentionally then seemed to draw out how some people react when they perceive an individual in a negative way, which lead then to some trying to belittle and twist a person?s view, even if in fact they agree with some of the points, which I found quite intreging. This seemed to stem from what they have perceived in past posts as negative.

My conclusions seem to lead to this being, in general, an actual targeting exercise as if I was a kind of ?troll? in retaliation for something that was said in other threads. With many on this site with a statutory agency status, this does puzzle me. Pursuing ?trolls? or, in other words, following ?people? around the forum, for something that was said in other threads, has another name for it.

I do hope you get my point. Thanks all. I have learnt a great deal from my experience here. It has also proved a point, which I have been trying endlessly to make to the leaders of departments in government and police. I am now off to write a book about it.

Serious or joke? Not sure? Well, that was the first part of the challenge, maybe the next part will help.

Part two

As part of the challenge I finish by providing you some lyrics, which is supposed to show some of my EDF experience.

The music I have used is as follows

Play the music at the same time as reading my lyrics below, so you get the full emotional attachment to my lyrics, which is important. Repeat the task if you feel necessary. Do it properly, emotionally, Frank Sinatra style, right to the end of the music (Don?t skip any). Are you ready for your challenge? Ready, steady... ...Go!

[sing it loud d?yer hear!]

Respect what all say our way

And nowww, the time is here, that I must bringggg, to your attentionnn

That I come, on EDF, to not feel fear, of retaliationnnnn

I?ve brought, a cup that?s full, of ups and downs along life?s journeyyyy

At least, I can reveal, I?ve expressed life myyyyy wayyyyy

I take, the bullying here, to gain a voice, for the minority

I push the points alongggg, so may get approooved, by the majority

My time on here?s been hard, but I endured, what deemed as necessary

So at leeeast, I could ensure, to express life myyyyy wayyyyyy

Yes there were times, I?m sure you knowwww, when my feelings, did truly showwww

But through it allllll, when I feel doubt, at least I feeeel, was worth the clout

I faced it alllll, for one and allllll, to express life myyyyy wayyyyy

On EDF, I?ve laughed and cried, my only escape, from my own seclusionnn

And now, from battles hard, your pursuit of me, has caused confusionnnn

Now I think, all that I say, is just a game, for my observerrrrs

Out to gain, laughs whatever the cost, till the target witherrrs

For what is a life, what have we got, when serious topics, are left to rot!

We say the thinggggs, we truly feeeel, and not the worrrds, of ones who kneeeel

So the community listens, with good intentions, what we express OURRRRR WAYYYYYY

[music break] [gives you time to consider how your actions might have affected some in your targeted game playing. What do you have missing in your own life to feel that you need to do this?] [pause to reflect]

RESPECT WHAT ALL SAY OURRR WAYYYYYY

[music] [pause to reflect]

[END]

The end is near for me; I now take a bow at my final curtain. Thank you Frank for the loan of your music. [RIP]

I?d like to finish to use this opportunity to thank the ?genuine EDF-ers? for their contribution to a great-ish experience. You are a funny lot, literally, as I definitely have laughed hysterically (with you of course), but I also have cried, but have also gained some good advice and experienced some very special people on here. I am glad that some of my fellow members do make the effort to engage to try and understand a different viewpoint and hope others start doing the same, instead of retaliating.

Goodbye... ...for now ;-)

P.S Have you guessed? Is this meant as serious or a joke? Have you actually worked out what I am saying accurately? I will leave you to decide. (your perception)

[Curtain Closes]

[Applause]

[DJKillaQueen]

Let's also copy PeckhamRose's example here and state that we absloutely refuse any right to publish words we have posted.

So jrussel I am informing you that my words on this forum belong to the forum and demand that nothing I have ever written be published.

And I also ask admin to contact jrussel and remind him of the rules regarding content on the forum...

(I personally still think it's a wind up)

[ianr]

>Fair use (US law) explicitly includes commercial use

I didn't know that. Thanks. It will be interesting to see its scope.

In my set of conceptual pigeonholes: "fair use" - a general term, referring to the set of provisions, however named, in any legislation, that permit the use of material otherwise protected by copyright.

It turns out that US law uses the same phrase as its specific legal term; hence a possible confusion. I'd have used "fair dealing" if I'd remembered it at the time, as I don't like causing confusion.

I think the article's ok'ish. Writers have to deal with other legislations as well. And if you manage to get to para 6 before erupting, you're firmly in UK territory. :)

I hope everyone reads at least the "fair dealing" summary that it links to, as I feel there's a lot of misunderstanding here. In my unauthoritative opinion, JR or anyone is fully justified in using any words we've writ here, without our permission, if s/he wants to perform research or produce any analytic or critical review or commentary thereon. And an absolutely vital and necessary provision that is.

Notwitstanding that right of fair dealing, each of us retains the copyright in our own wordy emissions. Not even the forum admins have the right to assign copyright in them to, or license their use by, anyone else.

If JR's product turns out to be wonderful, we can quote and extol it. If rubbishy, we can quote and ridicule it. If it grossly misrepresents, we can seek correction and complain to its publisher and/or any relevant regulatory body. If it defames any of us, we can spend our life savings on seeking redress through the courts, and ask that JR be banned from the forum. And if it doesn't appear at all, we can be very very rude to him.

BTW, whatever happened to investigative journalism?

[helena handbasket]

Karrie,

What are you going to do once you have outed all of the trolls? Half of the people on this forum are in character, and plenty of them are popular forumites (I think. Who knows? Isn't that part of the fun?). How do you decide who is a troll (a term I have grown bored of) and who is just having a bit of fun? Is there a solid definition of troll that everyone is in agreement with? I don't think it's possible. And anyway, what's the point? I think most people today recognize that everything read on a forum (or anywhere else on the internet.....Wikipedia?!) should be taken with a pinch of salt. I should give the terms of the EDF another read, but if it states anywhere that all postings must be truthful and that false identities are not allowed, then I think there might be more than one offender on this forum.

Anyway, if you think that JRussell is single-handedly bringing down the integrity of the journalism industry, um.....

[Karrie]

The issue here that I am making is about the 2 years of research, nothing more nothing less.

[Mick Mac]

this is getting very heavy. Arent we making this person seem more important than he is?

[helena handbasket]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> this is getting very heavy. Arent we making this

> person seem more important than he is?

This is my point.

There is no such thing as "safety" on the internet, even if it is just a neighborhood forum (with 13,000 users to my memory?) Then again, I'm not sure what kind of information one might give to a forum that would be unsafe in the wrong hands. Keep in mind, google searches from all over the world produce EDF threads. Make no mistake, there is nothing private about what is said here.

I first joined this forum under my real name, but felt too exposed. No reason, it just seemed a bit like using your own name for a bankng password or something.

So I switched to my drag name ;-)

edited to add:

There are thousands of others on here. Do we know what any of them are doing with all of this information? He actually outed himself.

[Sue]

I can't be arsed to read all this, but I don't give a f**k if anybody quotes anything I've ever posted on this forum, I don't hide behind some made-up name and a load of ED people know who I am anyway :)

I stand by everything I've ever posted.

Out and proud!

:)-D

[Mark]

When you say he outed himself, you mean he said something like "I am a troll, I am playing with you for my own amusement... I shall be writing an article about you". Seven pages later people are still discussing him/it, a good example of trolling in action methinks, and hats of to you jrussel, and there's me thinking you were an architect.

ps it's 17,160 registered users now.

[flapjackdavey]

Mark Wrote:

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and there's me thinking you were an

> architect.

I thought he was a small ankle nipping doggie .

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Jackie boy, you may use any of my bons mots for ?10 a word.

[Sue]

flapjackdavey Wrote:

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>

> I thought he was a small ankle nipping doggie .

xxxxxxx

Nah, doggies can't type

ETA: Their paws are too big and the keys are too small

[dullified]

Well JRussel you maniac. You played the part of a pompous, conservative and generally embittered and angry young man (or not so young - guessing early 30?s - someone who isn?t quite doing as well in terms of material wealth and personal relationships as some of his peers) with such convincing gusto your name even became a by-word for narrow mind reactionary opinion in certain parts of the forum. Kind of intrigue to see what your true persona is!

[katie1997]

Sue Wrote:

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> flapjackdavey Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > I thought he was a small ankle nipping doggie .

>

> xxxxxxx

>

> Nah, doggies can't type

>

> ETA: Their paws are too big and the keys are too

> small

god I'd love to see who woof pays to do his typing in that case :))

[ianr]

[deleted]