Iran says won't send condemned woman to Brazil

[DJKillaQueen]

(c/o Reuters)

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said a woman condemned to be stoned to death would not be sent to Brazil, despite President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's offer to grant her asylum.

The sentence imposed on Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani for adultery has caused an international outcry and become a surprise campaign issue in Brazil's October presidential election.

"WESTERN PLOT"

Murder, adultery, rape, armed robbery, apostasy and drug trafficking are all punishable by death under Iran's sharia law.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast told a news conference the furore over the stoning case had been stoked by the West to damage Iran.

"This is more a plot in order to create problems in the very close relations with Brazil and Turkey," he said.

Brazil and Turkey brokered a proposed compromise deal this year on Iran's uranium enrichment work, which the West fears is a cover for developing a nuclear bomb, something Tehran denies.

Relations with the rising regional powers are increasingly important for Iran which has been subjected to a new round of international sanctions over its nuclear program, led by pressure from Washington.

Mohammadi Ashtiani was convicted in 2006 of having an "illicit relationship" with two men and received 99 lashes as her sentence, human rights group Amnesty International has said.

Despite this, she was subsequently convicted of "adultery while being married," which Amnesty said she denied, and was sentenced to death by stoning.

Tehran has suspended the sentence, pending a review by the country's judiciary but it could still be carried out.

Last week, Mohammadi Ashtiani was interviewed on Iranian television, talking of her relationship with a man who killed her husband.

Amnesty International says Iran is second only to China in the number of people it executes. It put to death at least 346 people in 2008.

Is Iran the most insane country on the planet? Or just it's President?

[mockney piers]

Executions as yardstick of evilness. Hmmm.

That terrorist cesspool that is the Bahamas comes out top, Iran way down below the States....

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_exe_percap-crime-executions-per-capita

Ahmedinejad is a nasty piece of work. A fanatic, and i hate fanatics. He's also someone that his country doesn't want, so usurped power. The people have considered revolt, but know Only too well the price you pay for that in forces unleashed and blood and terror, as indeed do the mullahs, who have stuck with the devil you know for the time being.

Expect jockeying for power to ensue. If ahmedinejad and his power base come out on top expect odd alliances between the religious moderates and liberals, and sadly more bloodshed.

It's the Joe on the street yo have to feel sorry for.

Meanwhile USA will continue it's Iran-is-scary rhetoric and sell some $20 odd billion dollars worth of weapons to the middle east. Nice work if you can get it.

[RosieH]

Mostly a big fat what Mockney said.

I agree that a sentence to death by stoning is particularly barbaric, but I think when you talk about a country's killing its citizens, it's hard to see degrees of evil. I'm not sure that it's more acceptable for the United States to kill someone via the electric chair than it is for Iran to stone someone to death.

[DJKillaQueen]

Except that it could be argued that death by lethal injection (the electric chair is banned in most US states and never used in the others) is more humane than death by stoning and that the range of crimes punishable by death in the US are more serious than the crime committed by this Iranian woman. Not that I think execution is necessarily ever justified.

The arms trade that Mockney touches on is an important point too. Not just the US but the UK and France do major business with Islamic states, selling everything from jet fighters and warships, to bullets. It's hypocritical to describe certain types of culture as a threat to democracy whilst raking in the profits from the sale of arms to those same countries. What tends to happen is that a smokescreen develops where a country claims to be working with the US to combat internal extremism in return for 'business'. Pakistan is an example of that.

Years ago I attended a conference on Africa and it emerged that far more was given in free weapons and arms to certain countries than was given by those same countries in food, medical and other types of necessary aid. The US being one of the biggest donators of so called 'military aid', because presumably it was 'good for business'.

When Iran fuses the issue of this woman's fate with some wider accusation of prejudice towards Iran then it's a difficult debate to win and unfortunately more likely to see this poor women's story be lost in the melting pot of the many issues causing tension bewteen Iran and the rest of the World at present.

[Jeremy]

Stoning to death as punishment for adultery is definitely worse than death by electrocution as punishment for murder! Not that I agree with either, of course.

Also, I suspect that Iran would have unreported/unofficial executions which wouldn't show up on lists like this.

[mockney piers]

Pretty much what everyone said , except maybe about electric chair which is utterly horrific, but as pointed out done in very few states now.

My only addendum would be that the point that DJKQ makes about the woman's fate fused to international politics is good but i think coming from the direction. Iran (not without reason) is paranoid about the West and particularly sees the shadowy hand of Britain, even more so than the US (again with good historical reasons, though i doubt we get that involved anymore) in everything. So the woman's fate is woven into this paranoid narrative, but is most definitely playing in domestic politics. As a statement of who is in charge, and also as a warning to any moves toward liberalisation.

What annoys me about the rhetoric of the west is it plays into the hands of the hardliners and their rhetoric becomes more plausible. So all the softening of revolutionary zeal and the reforms of the nineties have been derailed by a man who was a young revolutionary (some of the US embassy hostages say they recognise him) playing the victim of the west card and able to backtrack those earlier reforms.

And his rhetoric may sound idiotic, and it is indeed embarrassing to the sophisticated middle classes in Tehran, but it plays incredibly well to his rural and provincial power base. Actually I believe the seat of government is in the process of being moved away from Tehran, see earlier about jockeying for position!

[Jeremy]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> electric chair which is utterly horrific

Yes, you're right... it is horrific. On a physical level it could maybe be worse than stoning. But it's the public/ritualistic nature of stoning which sets it apart IMO.

[Mick Mac]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mostly a big fat what Mockney said.

>

> I agree that a sentence to death by stoning is

> particularly barbaric, but I think when you talk

> about a country's killing its citizens, it's hard

> to see degrees of evil. I'm not sure that it's

> more acceptable for the United States to kill

> someone via the electric chair than it is for Iran

> to stone someone to death.

Really rosie?

Firstly you dont get the electric chair for adultery.

Secondly, if you were unfortunate enough to have to choose a way to die would you prefer stoning to the chair?

[HAL9000]

If Ashtiani isn?t pardoned or her sentence commuted to lashings, she might be executed by hanging but there is virtually no prospect of stoning - Iran is in the process of abolishing that mode of punishment.

If anyone is interested - some facts:

Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani

Stoning

Religion and capital punishment

Capital punishment in Iran

[RosieH]

Hmm, maybe I was a little hasty in my posting.

OF COURSE stoning is more barbaric than lethal injection (as I said). And OF COURSE stoning for adultery is preposterous and seems unduly harsh. And don't even get me started on women's rights.

But what I was trying to say is that a country's killing its citizens at all seems to me to be utterly barbaric and without mercy, and I can't help but wonder sometimes, when we get all up in arms about such things, that the US, our partners in peace, seem to get away with it.

Adultery would be a ridiculous crime to be executed for (if it weren't so hideously tragic), but what would be an acceptable one? I just don't think there is such a thing.

[DJKillaQueen]

but what would be an acceptable one? I just don't think there is such a thing.

This is what is such a difficult question to answer isn't it?...and often the answer is motivated by an emotive response (usually repulsion) to a certain type of violent crime.....serial child killers being an obvious example in the UK. I'm not even sure if even in those circumstances, execution does anything to lessen the effect of the crime on those affected. It's not something I think I have an clear view on to be honest.

[Mick Mac]

HAL9000 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If Ashtiani isn?t pardoned or her sentence

> commuted to lashings, she might be executed by

> hanging but there is virtually no prospect of

> stoning - Iran is in the process of abolishing

> that mode of punishment.

>

Its absolutely horrific - but seems it still happens from time to time.

Usage today

Stoning is practiced in Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, and Nigeria.[16][citation needed]

[edit] Afghanistan

Before the Taliban government, most areas of Afghanistan, aside from the capital, Kabul, were controlled locally by warlords or tribal leaders and the Afghan legal system depended highly on an individual community's local culture and the political and/or religious ideology of its leaders. Stoning also occurred in lawless areas, where vigilantes decide to commit the act for political purposes. Once the Taliban Government took over, stoning became the official punishment for many crimes, although once the U.S.-led occupation started, stoning had ended as an official court ruling, but still occurs unofficially.[17] A Taliban-ordered public stoning of a couple accused of adultery took place in Kunduz on August 15, 2010.[18]

[edit] Iran

Further information: Capital punishment in Iran

The Iranian judiciary officially placed a moratorium on stoning in 2002, although the punishment remained on the books, and there were a few cases of Judges handing down stoning sentences in 2006 and 2007 [19] In 2008, Iran's judiciary decided to fully scrap the punishment from the books in a legislation submitted to parliament for approval.[20] As of June 2009, Iran's parliament has been reviewing and revising the Islamic penal code to omit stoning as a form of punishment.[21]

In Iran, stoning as a punishment did not exist until 1983, when the contemporary Islamic Penal Code was ratified. Many Muslim jurists in Iran are of the opinion that while stoning can be considered Islamic, the criteria under which it can be imposed as a sentence are stringent: Because of the large burden of proof needed to reach a guilty sentence of adultery, its penalty is hardly ever applicable.

Furthermore, while legally on the books, because of vociferous domestic and international controversy and outcry over stoning in the early years of the Islamic republic, the government placed official moratoriums on the punishment and, as a result, it was rarely practiced. Nevertheless, much of the public was outraged that such a backward and torturous ritual became instituted in the laws of their country.[22] In 2002, Iran's judiciary indicated that stoning will no longer be practiced in Iran.[23] However, following the election of Ahmadinejad, there were reports of judges handing down stoning sentences in 2006 and 2007, and 2010. Finally, in 2008, Iran's judiciary decided to scrap the punishment of stoning in draft legislation submitted to parliament for approval.[20] In July 2010, the Iranian judiciary spokesman Jamal Karimirad was quoted as saying "Stoning has been dropped from the penal code for a long time, and in the Islamic republic, we do not see such punishments being carried out", further adding that if stoning sentences were passed by lower courts, they were over-ruled by higher courts and "no such verdicts have been carried out." [24]

[edit] Somalia

In October, 2008, a girl, Aisho Ibrahim Dhuhulow, was buried up to her neck at a football stadium, then stoned to death in front of more than 1,000 people. The stoning occurred after she had allegedly pleaded guilty to adultery in a sharia court in Kismayo, a city controlled by Islamist insurgents. According to the insurgents she had stated that she wanted shari`ah law to apply.[25]

However, other sources state that the victim had been crying, that she begged for mercy and had to be forced into the hole before being buried up to her neck in the ground.[26] Amnesty International later learned that the girl was in fact 13 years old and had been arrested by al-Shabab militia after she had reported being gang-raped by three men.[27]

In December 2009, another instance of stoning was publicized. Mohamed Abukar Ibrahim was accused of adultery by the Hizbul Islam militant group.[28]

[edit] Saudi Arabia, Sudan

Stonings, with and without legal proceedings have been reported in Sudan and Saudi Arabia [29]

[edit] Nigeria

More than a dozen Nigerian Muslims have been sentenced to death by stoning for sexual offences ranging from adultery to homosexuality since the Sharia legal system was introduced in 2000. But none of these death sentences has actually been carried out. They have either been thrown out on appeal or commuted to prison terms as a result of pressure from human rights groups. Many others have been sentenced to flogging for drinking alcohol. Although there have been two amputations in north-western Zamfara State which pioneered the introduction of the Islamic legal system in the country.

[DJKillaQueen]

Very informative post Mac (tu)

The Somalian example is most disturbing and it touches on something else that is reported from time to time - 'the attitude to rape' in some Islamic countries. There's one story I vaguely remember (but can't recall the exact details) where a woman was raped by a taxi driver in Iran and the police were anything but helpful. She was ultimately blamed and shamed for something that was never her fault. I think it was part of a BBC documentary on that subject.

I do remember the high profile case of the sentencing of two homosexuals to death in Nigeria. They were both eventually released from prison as you rightly say. But I think the intention is clear. Get out of Nigeria if you are a homosexual. In Islamic scripture though, FOUR witnesses are required to a homosexual act before a prosecution can happen so you are quite right in saying that a heavy burden of proof is required according to the writings of Islam on many issues. But as we all know, different groups preach different interpretations and do as they please irregardless of what the text really says.

In Afghanistan, the problem remains that in the mountains of the North, mountains that continue accross Northern Pakistan, you have tribes that have never been part of the evolving culture in the rest of those countries. They are poorly educated and know no other way of life beyond fighting - usually each other or as you rightly say, post Taliban, a common enemy. The collective term for these tribes is 'pushtan' and they haven't changed in any respect in centuries. Pakistan have always had problems with these communites. They will never be tamed, not by the US or the new governemnt in Afghanistan. And the word Taliban is a term that descibes an idealogy, rather than a group. So anyone who believes in taliban ideology is Taliban, where ever they live. I think this is also something the US hasn't quite understood. The supply of rebel fighters will be never ending and a continuous challenge for whomever governs Afghanistan in the future.

[Tarot]

Is this Islamaphobia?

[DJKillaQueen]

oh feck off you illiterate moranic troll tarot.......

[Tarot]

Thats not very ladylike.

[Tarot]

I was just asking a Question, because most people get mullered on this forum. if they even mention moslims.But all of you are taking about it with impunity.

[Tarot]

Sorry I caused you to have an attack of tourettes,DJ KillaQueen. I usually admire what you have to say. Perhaps I,ll see you in the Actress and well chat.

[DJKillaQueen]

Gosh I was a bit strong...lol..for that I apologise. It was 4 am amd no doubt following a few beers!

It is not phobic to discuss politics or culture. And in contrast to the previous detailed posts that at least try to engage in discussion yours said nothing about anything being discussed....

But if by all means you want to start a thread that discusses what might be construed as Islamophobic then go ahead.

[Narnia]

The view from Iran

[DJKillaQueen]

She was sentenced to death for the adultery part under sharia law.

She was first tried on May 15, 2006, by a court in Tabriz, pleading guilty under torture to the crime of an "illicit relationship" with two men; she has since recanted the "confession" made under duress. The so-called adultery was alleged to have occurred after the death of her husband, and no names have ever been documented for the two men. She was sentenced to whipping of 99 lashes, which was carried out in the presence of her son, Sajad Ghaderzadeh, when he was 17 years old.

In September 2006, her case was again brought up when a separate court was prosecuting one of the two men for involvement in the death of Mohammadi Ashtiani's husband. She was illegally retried for the same alleged crime of adultery, convicted of adultery while still married, and sentenced to death by stoning.

Ashtiani does not speak Persian, but instead only Azeri, and when her stoning sentence was handed down, she did not understand the sentence. Contrary to all documentation on Ms. Ashtiani's case, Malek Ejdar Sharifi, head of East Azerbaijan Province's judiciary said "She was sentenced to capital punishment for committing murder, manslaughter and adultery." The Iranian supreme court confirmed her death sentence on May 27, 2007.

Reporters in Iran have been banned from reporting on the case. One of her lawyers, Mohammed Mostafaei, had to go into hiding in the country on July 26, 2010. His wife and brother-in-law were arrested in Iran and his wife's father was told that they would be released as soon as Mostafaei turns himself in. Mostafaei sought asylum internationally, first in Turkey, and then Norway, where he was reunited with his family on September 2, 2010.

I could go on with more details of the two cases but under British Law the first would have been thrown out as the methods used for obtaining the confession were illegal and the second trial would never have happened as she was being retried for a crime for which she had already been punished.

I don't care what Iran says...they are ruled by fanatics...and their judicial system stinks.

[Huguenot]

I can't quite see through the fog on this one, but wasn't she tried for adultery first, and now she's being tried for murder?

'Fanatical' seems a very religious word, but not so long ago the punishment for adultery in the UK was either having your nose and ears cut off, or being hanged.

[????]

Was it? Not so long ago? I'm not sure it ever was, let alone 'not so long ago'

[Huguenot]

500 years, not a long time in the greater scheme of things. I've been alive myself for almost 10% of that time.

My point was more that it doesn't require religious fanaticism, merely a very peculiar way of looking at things.

[????]

Even if we dismiss 500 years as a mere trifle, I stuill don't think it was true, Adultery against King Henry VIII got your head chopped off - it may have even been on the statute but a mere 700 years ago in Chaucer's writing the Miller's wife is hardly petrified that her dalliance with the clerk will see her pretty little nose removed for instance.