20-22 Lordship Lane

[edhistory]

This is the pair of shops that Mr Barber is campaigning to bring back into retail use.

Details are on his blog.

I don't think we will get a full reinstatement as in the attached photo.

The photo does illustrate the recent EDF discussion about forecourts.

[dimples]

What a fab pic

[James Barber]

What a fab picture - thanks John.

[kibris]

Whats wrong with whats there now,im happy with the CMHT being there

[Pierre]

As kilbris says, why does the CMHT need to be moved? If Southwark want to make more profit from the site, will they find an equally convenient new site for the CMHT?

[rch]

Or... rather than being converted back into shops (which will probably end up as another coffee or burger outlet), this council-owned premises would be a perfect location for council services, such as a small housing office and meeting rooms for residents to engage with councillors, highways officers, and planning officers.

Something similar to the MySouthwark service points that exist everywhere in the borough except the Dulwich area:-

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/servicepoints

CMHT could probably be consolidated into one half of the premises and it could also be shared with our local police teams for appointments and comfort break facilities, to keep officers based in the ward during patrols.

We have CIL funding built up from the M&S development as well as other projects... it would be nice to use Dulwich funding in a way that actually benefits Dulwich residents...

I'll try to restrain myself from calling it a Dulwich Town Hall... but Tooley Street is just too far away, so we need SOMETHING down here!

[first mate]

rch, out of curiosity approx how much CIL is there from the M&S development?

Great idea to use it as a place to speak to Councillors and get back a local police presence. As you say, better than another coffee or burger chain, which is what we'd most likely get.

[rch]

Don't quote me, but from memory there was approx ?40K from the approved planning application, with a view that it would be increased to approx ?70,000 if there was a retrospective application to "convert" the top floor offices into flats.

I think someone should request a general CIL total for the DCC area, as our funding tends to get diverted into the middle of the borough unless someone keeps their eye on it...

We need community facilities!

[nxjen]

"We need community facilities"

In a perfect world I would agree but this is a wealthy area in a borough that still has a lot of poverty and deprivation and as such I am happy any revenue raised from the M&S development is diverted to the middle of the borough. It's somewhat parochial to argue that because the money was raised from a development in Dulwich that it should remain in Dulwich.

[rch]

I think you'd be surprised if you knew how many elderly and disabled people live in Dulwich council houses. Reinstating a local housing office so that council tenants didn't have to struggle on the P13 to Peckham was one of the most requested projects that I was asked when I was a councillor...

I just looked at Camberwell CC's CIL request list... they're spending their funding on heritage street lamps, posh paving, new bollards, and trees, while we're tripping over Lordship paving slabs while struggling to get to Peckham to talk to council officers.

Anyway, there's other funding that we could access to provide council service facilities for our residents if Camberwell needs more heritage street lights.

But first residents need to agree that a council facility near Goose Green is a good idea...

[alice]

Perhaps current users of 20-22 could be asked first.

[rch]

The underlying point of this discussion is that no one will give a straight answer. The facility has been being wound down for years and the word on the grapevine is that Southwark plans to sell the property off, hence the discussion of converting it back into shops. Or keeping it as some kind of community facility.

[rch]

Actually, reading the community council CIL project lists is an enlightening experience!

Peckham and Nunhead want to convert an old housing office into a community hall... whereas we want to convert an old council office into... a council office.

But the top of the Dulwich CC list is to use CIL funds to build a new Police Station! Yessssss!!

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/download/4676/cipl_lists_by_community_council_area

[James Barber]

Hi FM,

M&S CIL for local spending = ?11,000 the rest gets creamed of for central budgets. That ?11k has lots of hoops connected with it.

The Community Mental Health Team based at 20-22 Lordship Lane support people from Camberwell, Dulwich and Peckham. The bulk of those patients live in Camberwell and Peckham. So it would make much more sense to base the service at a more convenient location for all service users. They recently relabelled the team Dulwich but I suspect because the service providers prefer to be based in East Dulwich - and their business is welcome in local shops - for a host of reasons. They can probably commute by car for example.

I can;t see why the ground floor couldn't be returned to shops and the upper floors kept as now offices.

Hi Robin,

I admire your determination swimming against the current administrations determination to only have online comms with residents. We can no longer have residents talking to real people unless they prove they have no relation anywhere with internet access! So much as I think a F2F option locally would be great I can't see it happening.

[kibris]

New police station NOOOOOO we dont need one

[rch]

Hi James... I hear what you're saying, but unless the community sticks together things will just get railroaded through under the radar. I can't see why MySouthwark service points are okay for the north and the middle of the borough, but not the South Camberwell/East Dulwich area (which will become more united once the boundaries all shift).

If nothing else, Dulwich has a higher elderly demographic than any other part of the borough, who don't have access to internet facilities (or cars, for that matter)... hence my ongoing campaigns for leaflet communications wherever possible.

FYI, when I heard a rumour a couple months ago that 20-22 had been escalated up the property sales list, I actually went in there to try to talk to someone, to see if some of the offices could be rented by the community... but, aside from an unhelpful receptionist, there doesn't seem to be much going on in there and no one would "comment".

My guess is that because of the stairs, using the upstairs for offices won't meet standards, so the ground floor would be best for community service facilities?

I could well see the upstairs being sold off for flats and the ground floor converted back to shops... but it would benefit the community better if the two ground floor units were split and one became a shop while the other was converted into a community service facility. Then you get the best of both worlds...

[James Barber]

Hi rch,

I'd love one of those access points locally. But you know most of the population of Southwark are in the Camberwell and Peckham area and further north - hence why they have MySouthwark F2F access points and we don't.

To create a new access point would cost significant sums in both CAPEX and OPEX. My priorities would be getting the streets cleaned properly, answering the telephone with real people to handle queries.

[rch]

Maybe it will have to be a community campaign then, if residents feel it's important...

As for costs, I suspect that the internal computer technology is already in place and that the premises conversion could be paid for out of a small portion of the profit of the sale of the connected parts of the property.

People on telephones are useful, but there needs to be face to face contact with experienced officers by appointment in the location (not looking at Google Maps!), not just garbled messages being passed through.

[nxjen]

rch Wrote:

------------------------------------------------------->

> If nothing else, Dulwich has a higher elderly

> demographic than any other part of the borough,

> who don't have access to internet facilities (or

> cars, for that matter)... hence my ongoing

> campaigns for leaflet communications wherever

> possible.

I have found statistics to confirm that Dulwich has a slightly higher percentage of over 65s than other parts of the borough but this covers a huge age range and I'm not sure the lower end of this age group could be classed as elderly. Do you have any statistics that break down the age groups further? Can you point me in the right direction also regarding statistics about lack of internet connection. This might be true of those at the upper end of the age group but those at the lower end of the group, probably recently retired, would have used the internet at work and are Internet savvy. Blimey, most of them are posting on the EDF.

Also age is not the only criteria to be used regarding provision of a local Southwark face to face office. There are questions of mobility and general health. Are there any statistics that throw any light on these factors for Dulwich?

I would repeat that in an ideal world it would be great to have a local community office but it's a question of limited resources and priorities.

[rch]

I can't be bothered to try to convince you, nxjen. Just Google Southwark demographics and you can see all the graphs.

More importantly, I think your last sentence hits the nail on the head... if you could see how much money is wasted in Southwark Council, compared to how much a small local community office would cost, I think you'd be shocked. It's one of the reasons why I got out of the system.

I think some people are just more community spirited, it's one of my downfalls.

When I first became a councillor in 2006, I ran into this exact mindset... about how resources shouldn't be spent in the area... so the first thing I did was struggle to raise the funding for a free youth club, a weekly Millwall youth football session, and a Pensioner's club - all of which were hosted for free by JAGS.

The attendance of these "unnecessary" community outlets was astonishing... the youth club was so popular that the managers had to run it in two-hour rotating sessions, so that over 125 youths could attend. Over 100 youths attended the Friday Night football sessions, who would normally have nowhere else to go on a Friday night.

The Pensioner's Club was run by Dulwich Helpline at the time - I personally created leaflets and hand delivered them to reach all the out of touch pensioners in the area who weren't on the internet.

All of these projects folded shortly after I stopped being a councillor, because there simply wasn't anyone who would put the effort in to lobby to divert council funding into the perceived more privileged part of the borough.

But, it's not even about age, disability, privilege, etc... it's about community spirit.

Where is the community spirit in East Dulwich?

[uncleglen]

Probably in the morning on the station platform as they all traipse up to their well-paid jobs at 7pm!