Speeding cyclist

[first mate]

RH,

Many using the Blue Badge scheme would say it is not fit for purpose. Someone can be elderly and have mild balance issues or arthritic joints, either making cycling problematic. However, even they would not necessarily be defined as disabled I would still support their use of a mobility scooter.

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> RH,

>

> Many using the Blue Badge scheme would say it is

> not fit for purpose. Someone can be elderly and

> have mild balance issues or arthritic joints,

> either making cycling problematic. However, even

> they would not necessarily be defined as disabled

> I would still support their use of a mobility

> scooter.

As would I, I'm not suggesting the BB scheme should necessarily be used to define scooter use, just saying a scheme something like that could be developed to stop them being used unnecessarily (just as an example, a perfectly able-bodied 73-year-old friend of my mother's has just sold her car and bought a mobility scooter as it needs no insurance, is much cheaper to run etc, I don't think that's a desirable road to go down) - if it's needed it's needed. Just not in the cycle lanes!

[first mate]

RH,

Well the Dutch manage it, so perhaps we will have to at some point!

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> RH,

>

> Well the Dutch manage it, so perhaps we will have

> to at some point!

Maybe so, and if we went down their route (pun intended) nobody would be happier than me, however the Dutch model involves very heavy restriction of motorised vehicle access, one way systems and urban areas where the car is regarded as a guest with no rights over cyclists, mobility scooter users, children playing in the streets etc. That would be wonderful, but as it stands at the moment the Dutch system is so different to ours that we can't just say they do this so why can't we, we'd have to take on their whole ethos and rebuild our infrastructure to match theirs.

[Blah Blah]

Some wheelchair users can reach speeds of 8 mpr too. Should we have those in cycle lanes too? There's a clear dfference between something with a top speed of 8 mpr and a cycle that can go much faster. I also think that mobility scooters on roads will lead to the same kinds of accidents that cyclists suffer from. But if we do ever get to a place where there are millions of mobility sccoter users, we may well want to look at road or pavement provision for them. That would just make sense. Right now though, while it might make sense to allow a mobility scooter to use a bus lane, it makes no sense to allow them in narrow cycle lanes.

[LadyNorwood]

Population of Amsterdam 780,000 (without commuters), population of London (without commuters) 8.6 million - why do people bang on about how we should adopt the Dutch approach to cycling when we don't come anywhere near the same starting point? There are good and bad drivers and cyclists - but today I narrowly avoided a young man in full Wiggins gear shoot through the lights (which were red for him and green for me), good job there was nothing behind me as I braked sharply to avoid him hitting me (I would have been rear-ended and if I'd hit the cyclist it would have been his fault but of course I'd get the blame)...

[Townleygreen]

LadyN, Amsterdam began from a situation like London, with cars and pollution dominating. It has changed over the years to the wonderful situation they have today with children, OAPs and all those between cycling or walking in safety to schools, with low levels of pollution.

We are slowly moving in the same direction and when we get there our city and suburbs will be people friendly places like Amsterdam.

Strange that you prefer pollution. I'm sure you don't!

[LadyNorwood]

TG - when was Amsterdam the size of london? I don't like pollution but I also don't like being spat at and called a f*cking c*nt by a member of DC staff when he almost knocked me over on his bike as he shot down the pavement...

[Townleygreen]

Lady N said

"TG - when was Amsterdam the size of london? I don't like pollution but I also don't like being spat at and called a @#$%& c*nt by a member of DC staff when he almost knocked me over on his bike as he shot down the pavement..."

Neither of these points is relevant to my post!!

Obv. Amsterdam isn't the size of London, I was talking about facilities for cycling.

[Jeremy]

I've never actually been to Amsterdam so can't really compare with London. I'm not sure the absolute size of the city is really a factor, but the main problem we have here in London is the narrow streets. And a lot of traffic gets funnelled through them, as there aren't many major routes.

Thinking mainly of the centre of town... I'm not sure private cars are a real problem, the majority of the traffic seems to be buses, deliveries, construction, taxis. It's not simply going to disappear. The congestion charge was supposed to encourage offset this, but instead I think businesses are just absorbing the cost.

[LadyNorwood]

Townleygreen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lady N said

>

> "TG - when was Amsterdam the size of london? I

> don't like pollution but I also don't like being

> spat at and called a @#$%& c*nt by a member of DC

> staff when he almost knocked me over on his bike

> as he shot down the pavement..."

>

> Neither of these points is relevant to my post!!

>

> Obv. Amsterdam isn't the size of London, I was

> talking about facilities for cycling.

You said Amsterdam began from a situation like London.... Anyway I'll just get back to dodging pollution, either from vehicles or spittle....

[Pierre]

LadyNorwood Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TG - when was Amsterdam the size of london? I

> don't like pollution but I also don't like being

> spat at and called a @#$%& c*nt by a member of DC

> staff when he almost knocked me over on his bike

> as he shot down the pavement...

I don't think the point is that Amsterdam was the _size_ of London, but that in the 1950s the rate at which cars were replacing bicycles on the road was rapidly changing the infrastructure of both cities.

An interesting read, if you've got a couple of minutes:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord

As for the latter part of your post, that's just out of order. Whether on a bike, in a car or on foot. Even though I ride a bike (and drive a car, FWIW), I'm can't defend someone who's an arsehole - what's DC? It may be worth complaining to them.

[LadyNorwood]

DC is Dulwich College; Holland is flat, the UK is not; the Dutch know how to cycle, the British do not - if I see one more young male at night, wearing black clothes, on a trick bicycle, with no lights, doing wheelies on and off the pavement in between moving traffic I think I will have a heart attack....

[rendelharris]

LadyNorwood Wrote:

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>... the Dutch know how to cycle, the British do

> not...

No generalising there then. It's interesting that a few posts ago you said you acknowledged there are bad drivers and bad cyclists but all your complaints are solely about cyclists...the plural of anecdote is not evidence.

By the way, how did you know the person who allegedly spat at you was a member of Dulwich College staff, and why, if you knew them, did you not report them both to the College and the police? Spitting at someone deliberately is an assault.

[first mate]

rh, come on. If cycling is on the rise then means to reduce bad behaviour should be considered and people free to relay their experiences and frustrations. You cannot every time dismiss a complaint simply because it has not been 'balanced' by a similar anecdote about bad driving in a car.

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rh, come on. If cycling is on the rise then means

> to reduce bad behaviour should be considered and

> people free to relay their experiences and

> frustrations. You cannot every time dismiss a

> complaint simply because it has not been

> 'balanced' by a similar anecdote about bad driving

> in a car.

True, but I'm very much getting the impression that LadyNorwood is fairly typical of the car driving anti-cyclist brigade who has several times shoehorned complaints about a cyclist's bad behaviour into replies about pollution etc - and as for the comment about "the Dutch know how to cycle, the British do not," that's just silly. If someone wants to attack cyclists as a body then as a cyclist I have a right to defend them.

[TheArtfulDogger]

Sadly all road users occupy their own space bubble

A clear example is my drive from the a3 to se22 on Sunday night

First a deliveroo cyclist was cycling the wrong way on the Wandsworth one way system (towards oncoming traffic) with no lights,

Followed by 2 bikes and 2 moped drivers who pulled out of side roads without looking

By this time I believed that my car was invisible despite having lights on

Then two (suspected uber) Prius drivers were doing 15 in a 30 zone with no concept of who was around or behind them (breaker breaker looks like we have us a convoy)

Whilst I believe cyclist jumping lights is highly dangerous (for them, pedestrians and other road users) I also believe there are a whole range of twats on different modes of transport using the road

As for the Dutch, can we really look at coffee (nee hash) cafe cultured clog wearers as an example ? Or maybe we need more Dutch style coffee shops to make everyone mellow (man) !

[LadyNorwood]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LadyNorwood Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >... the Dutch know how to cycle, the British do

> > not...

>

> No generalising there then. It's interesting that

> a few posts ago you said you acknowledged there

> are bad drivers and bad cyclists but all your

> complaints are solely about cyclists...the plural

> of anecdote is not evidence.

>

> By the way, how did you know the person who

> allegedly spat at you was a member of Dulwich

> College staff, and why, if you knew them, did you

> not report them both to the College and the

> police? Spitting at someone deliberately is an

> assault.

He did not ALLEGEDLY spit at me - he spat in my face, he was wearing Dulwich College tracksuit and had a staff badge round his neck..... I was so shocked and upset I didn't report it, also he lived about five doors down from me and was very aggressive every time I encountered him...

Here is the exact chain of events - I stepped onto the pavement, he shot past me, narrowly missing me, and I stumbled; I called out "hey you shouldn't be on the pavement", he then rode back, slowly, squared up to me, snorted, then unleashed phlegm into my face and yelled at me "you f*cking c*nt" and rode off....

I encounter bad drivers, bad cyclists and bad pedestrians every day, but I've been injured by cyclists on several occasions - I was thrown into three lanes of traffic by a courier cyclist who was going the wrong way down a one way street; I've been hit by cyclists as they race down the pavement and, as I mentioned, I was spat at and called a fu*king cu*t because I dared to walk out of my house legitimately onto the pavement.... Happy now???

[LadyNorwood]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> first mate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > rh, come on. If cycling is on the rise then

> means

> > to reduce bad behaviour should be considered

> and

> > people free to relay their experiences and

> > frustrations. You cannot every time dismiss a

> > complaint simply because it has not been

> > 'balanced' by a similar anecdote about bad

> driving

> > in a car.

>

> True, but I'm very much getting the impression

> that LadyNorwood is fairly typical of the car

> driving anti-cyclist brigade who has several times

> shoehorned complaints about a cyclist's bad

> behaviour into replies about pollution etc - and

> as for the comment about "the Dutch know how to

> cycle, the British do not," that's just silly. If

> someone wants to attack cyclists as a body then as

> a cyclist I have a right to defend them.

Actually you brought pollution into it, not me; I'm by no means anti-cyclist, I'd love to ride a bike but have physical mobility restrictions - would you like to see the X-rays of my spine, fibiae and tibiae as proof or am I allegedly restricted? I have an issue with road users (two wheeled, four wheeled, unicycles, tricycles, bi-peds, unipeds, pogo stickers, et al) who do not respect the rules of the road. In the Ventoux region of France, where cycling is almost a religion, if cyclists do not obey the rules of the road, then the locals usually round them up and give them a right earful....

[rendelharris]

Actually, LadyNorwood, it wasn't me who mentioned pollution, it was another poster. I'm sorry for your health problems and I can empathise with them having arthritis and an autoimmune disease myself. Other than that I can only say that, in my experience, fury at others only eats at yourself in the long run.

Peace,

R

[Earl Aelfheah]

LadyNorwood Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > LadyNorwood Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > >... the Dutch know how to cycle, the British

> do

> > > not...

> >

> > No generalising there then. It's interesting

> that

> > a few posts ago you said you acknowledged there

> > are bad drivers and bad cyclists but all your

> > complaints are solely about cyclists...the

> plural

> > of anecdote is not evidence.

> >

> > By the way, how did you know the person who

> > allegedly spat at you was a member of Dulwich

> > College staff, and why, if you knew them, did

> you

> > not report them both to the College and the

> > police? Spitting at someone deliberately is an

> > assault.

>

> He did not ALLEGEDLY spit at me - he spat in my

> face, he was wearing Dulwich College tracksuit and

> had a staff badge round his neck..... I was so

> shocked and upset I didn't report it, also he

> lived about five doors down from me and was very

> aggressive every time I encountered him...

>

> Here is the exact chain of events - I stepped onto

> the pavement, he shot past me, narrowly missing

> me, and I stumbled; I called out "hey you

> shouldn't be on the pavement", he then rode back,

> slowly, squared up to me, snorted, then unleashed

> phlegm into my face and yelled at me "you @#$%&

> c*nt" and rode off....

>

> I encounter bad drivers, bad cyclists and bad

> pedestrians every day, but I've been injured by

> cyclists on several occasions - I was thrown into

> three lanes of traffic by a courier cyclist who

> was going the wrong way down a one way street;

> I've been hit by cyclists as they race down the

> pavement and, as I mentioned, I was spat at and

> called a fu*king cu*t because I dared to walk out

> of my house legitimately onto the pavement....

> Happy now???

You should report him. Hope you're not too shaken.

[Nigello]

Being spat at is degrading, potentially dangerous to one's health and punishable by law, so please report it.

[Jeremy]

Sorry to hear about your experience LN. But surely should have been reported straight away, especially as you know who he is.

[LadyNorwood]

Yes I should have but as he was living a few doors away I was worried as to what he might do - he's left now (well he doesn't live nearby anymore).... I was so shocked I didn't even tell my husband until days later (similarly when a Russian bloke pulled a gun on me as I was walking down a quiet back street in Knightsbridge and when I was threatened with gang rape, dismemberment and murder on a no 3 bus) - oh the joys of living in London.....

[TheArtfulDogger]

Wow LadyNorwood

You either are very unlucky or you should write a book about your life