Speeding cyclist

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

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> RH think you are quite lucky if you can maintain

> those kinds of speeds in central London at rush

> hour. I do cycle sometimes so not speaking from a

> position of complete ignorance.

I don't mean as an average - I average about 12MPH over a whole journey, I meant when the traffic's moving at that pace it's safest to keep up with it.

Yes there is too much aggression from some cyclists who don't want to lose momentum - particularly fixie riders. Get some gears and learn how to change down as you approach the lights and up as you pull away, would be my advice!

[Blah Blah]

Fixie's are fine in places like Holland, which is mostly flat. Completely useless in London though, which is quite hilly in parts.

[ruffers]

We need to separate commuting by bike from fitness. As long as people see it as exercise they'll want to improve, get faster and better, and that leads to competitiveness, and that leads to conflict.

Think of it as just a commuting option and we're good.

[LJC56]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> a plea for more cyclists to thank drivers who they

> make way for them?

>

> A couple of weeks ago I was thanked (twice, by

> different cyclists) for giving way in my car in a

> narrow passing place, where surging forward would

> have put the cyclist in jeopardy. I was really

> pleased that what I had done had both been noticed

> and acknowledged. It further encouraged me to

> continue driving considerately. I couldn't agree

> more with rendelharris about this.

Totally in favour of more courtesy on the roads, just can't entirely see why only cyclists should be courteous! I (middle aged female cyclist) regularly pull over for cars, and it's really nice and rare to be thanked! In Sumner Road this week, I pulled over for a car coming in the other direction on the narrow bit where there are lots of parked cars, and he and the three cars that tailgated him didn't even look in my direction let alone wave. So, more courtesy all round I think.

[BrandNewGuy]

ruffers Wrote:

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> We need to separate commuting by bike from

> fitness. As long as people see it as exercise

> they'll want to improve, get faster and better,

> and that leads to competitiveness, and that leads

> to conflict.

>

> Think of it as just a commuting option and we're

> good.

Couldn't agree more. In an early version of 'nudge' activity, the first ATM in the UK was launched using Reg Varney. The implication being that if an ordinary fella can use this newfangled machine, so can anyone. So to encourage commuting by bike, I suggest they use a clearly unfit soap star. Steve McFadden/Phil Mitchell would do nicely...

[rendelharris]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> ruffers Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We need to separate commuting by bike from

> > fitness. As long as people see it as exercise

> > they'll want to improve, get faster and better,

> > and that leads to competitiveness, and that

> leads

> > to conflict.

> >

> > Think of it as just a commuting option and

> we're

> > good.

>

> Couldn't agree more. In an early version of

> 'nudge' activity, the first ATM in the UK was

> launched using Reg Varney. The implication being

> that if an ordinary fella can use this newfangled

> machine, so can anyone. So to encourage commuting

> by bike, I suggest they use a clearly unfit soap

> star. Steve McFadden/Phil Mitchell would do

> nicely...

Hey, if they need an overweight bald middleaged bloke who cycles slowly I'm available!

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I wonder if the difference is down to the fact

> that in Dutch cities pretty much everyone cycles ?

> young and old, fit and infirm ? and no-one wears

> lycra.

Are you familiar with the concept of "cognitive dissonance"?

I despaired when Boris launched one of his

> London cycling initiatives and appeared alongside

> Bradley Wiggins. Why? That isn't going to

> encourage 'ordinary' people (eg the not-very-fit

> middle-aged) to cycle to work. It's like using

> Lewis Hamilton for a 'safer driving' campaign.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13365580

[PoisonIvy]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> I don't mind about lycra one way or the other, but

> to me it signals racing. You simply don't need to

> wear lycra to cycle to work. The Dutch manage to

> cycle in their ordinary clothes and their weather

> is not noticeably better than ours.

It really isn't about racing. I wear Lycra because after the first few rides into work in normal clothing, it was deeply unpleasant (for me and probably my coworkers too) to be sitting around in sweaty clothes for the 2 hours it took to dry. My commute is 40 minutes and it's plenty of time to get pretty gross. Even if you change, you still need to change back into the clothes to get home, and a normal tshirt and trousers won't be dry by the end of the day. Believe me, a fair few of us really do need the Lycra / fast drying workout style clothing to commute. And I'm well aware that I don't look attractive in it, but needs must. Besides, it's not a fashion show, I just want to get to work and atone for the bacon sandwich I'll have when I get there.

With regards to the racers - I've been taking a very well-travelled cycling route to work for the past two years, and while there are a handful of racers, really there's only 2 or 3 out of the 40 or so cyclists I see every morning who stand out as being d*ckheads. Going fast shouldn't be an issue; it is entirely possible to cycle quickly and safely. The vast majority obey the rules, but as a previous poster mentioned, no one remembers the ones who follow the rules. Just like the vast majority of motorists don't run red lights or cut me up - I just tend to remember the ones who do.

[trinidad]

I know slightly out of the area, but I often use the one way street off of Peckham Rye Lane. The road is quite close to the southwark college, and often has stalls on one side.

Dispite it being one way, I always find cyclists hurting down towards me. Its not a contraflow for cyclists, and I really find it dangerous.

Copleston road has a contraflow, but i really feel sorry for the cyclists as once they cycle to the end of the road, there is no lane or track to allow them to continue onto grove vale. The only option they have is to dismount or cycle on the pavement.

[first mate]

I think going fast is an issue if the majority stick to a lower speed. It is not easy as a pedestrian, fellow cyclist or even car driver, to have eyes in the back of your head all the time, especially in low light. I have had some very near misses recently when I am suddenly aware of a cyclist whizzing by in the blink of an eye- going for the gap as it were- and thinking if I had deviated by a small amount a bad crash might have ensued.

It reminds me a bit of skaters when you get the odd skater on ice hockey skates who insists on whizzing round at a reckless speed, weaving in and out of fellow skaters, glorying in their ability and skill to miss other skaters by a hair's breadth.

"Going fast shouldn't be an

> issue; it is entirely possible to cycle quickly

> and safely. The vast majority obey the rules, but

> as a previous poster mentioned, no one remembers

> the ones who follow the rules. Just like the vast

> majority of motorists don't run red lights or cut

> me up - I just tend to remember the ones who do".

[Blah Blah]

This is why I have mirrors on my bicycle and they are the most useful thing I've ever added. I use them all the time.

[bodsier]

I cycle and I drive a car. And in all honesty, I couldn't tell you how fast I cycle because I don't wear Lycra, nor do I have a speedometer. However even as a commuter, I just couldn't poodle along slowly as it would have taken more than an hour to get to work. I lived in Bow and worked in Kilburn. It took me almost an Hour each way. And I cycled at a decent pace, you had to keep up with the traffic and to be safe. The problem is that pedestrias and car drivers and myself as a road user have to be vigilant. It's dangerous to fordle along slowly as it is to cycle extremely fast. There is a happy medium, but I don't believe 12 mph is the key.

[first mate]

Are mobility scooters allowed into cycle lanes? The roadworthy type have a top speed of 8mph, I think.

The notion that cycling slowly is dangerous and to be avoided confirms my suspicion that cycling in London is for young or fit people only.

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

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> Are mobility scooters allowed into cycle lanes?

> The roadworthy type have a top speed of 8mph, I

> think.

>

> The notion that cycling slowly is dangerous and to

> be avoided confirms my suspicion that cycling in

> London is for young or fit people only.

Cycling slowly isn't dangerous provided you choose your routes carefully - it's certainly safe enough on the quietways and cycle paths, I just wouldn't recommend going round the Aldwych or along the Euston Road if you can't get above 10MPH. But there are always alternative routes if you look and you don't have to be particularly young or fit to ride between 15 and 20 MPH - I do and I'm neither!

Mobility scooters aren't allowed in bus lanes or cycle lanes but I'm seeing an increasing number there - not a major problem at present but they do seem to be coming much more prevalent.

[first mate]

Surely mobility scooters should have access to cycle lanes, otherwise how can they also get around safely? Obviously motorbikes and scooters for able-bodied have no business being in cycle lanes.

[titch juicy]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Penguin68 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Whilst I see very poor road behaviour from

> almost

> > all classes of road users, it is those on two

> > wheels who are most likely not to give warning

> of

> > road manoeuvres, particularly turns - indeed

> when

> > I see a cyclist signalling a turn it is a

> shock.

>

> Agreed - can I also put in a plea for more

> cyclists to thank drivers who they make way for

> them? I've got into the habit of signalling to

> turn right with my right hand, then giving the

> driver who's let me across a quick thumbs up with

> my left once across to the turning lane.

> Likewise, if on narrow streets a car stays behind

> me until it's safe to pass (without hooting or

> shouting!) I always raise a hand to say thank you

> when they do pass. Not compulsory of course but

> it does a little to make the roads feel more

> pleasant and reduce the us and them atmosphere.

I always do this too.

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

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> Surely mobility scooters should have access to

> cycle lanes, otherwise how can they also get

> around safely? Obviously motorbikes and scooters

> for able-bodied have no business being in cycle

> lanes.

On the pavement, as they are permitted to and as they do everywhere there isn't a cycle lane. I can't think of anywhere there's a cycle lane but no pavement which a mobility scooter can safely use.

[first mate]

I think some mobility scooters are allowed to go on the roads and so I'd have thought it would be in the interests of those users to allow them in cycle lanes.

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

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> I think some mobility scooters are allowed to go

> on the roads and so I'd have thought it would be

> in the interests of those users to allow them in

> cycle lanes.

Class 3 invalid carriages are allowed on the road (but not in bus lanes or cycle lanes) where they're allowed to do 8MPH, but they have to switch back to 4MPH to go on the pavement. Cycle lanes are for cyclists, adding wide powered vehicles will hamper cyclists and also create a safety hazard. If a driver of a Class 3 invalid carriage decides the road is too dangerous then they have the option of the pavement, and that's where they should go.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Here we go. Yes, there are people who behave badly on the roads, whether they're cycling or driving. They probably behave badly when they're not engaged in the process of transporting themselves. You'll probably find they put their feet on the seats when on the train and play loud music on the bus. I had a car nearly take me out the other day as I crossed the road. she careered round a corner at speed, without a care. I see cyclists ignoring lights and regularly see cars breaking the speed limit as well as jumping lights. It's not helpful to make this into a 'bike versus car' thing. What would help is if we actually had traffic police back, rather then just putting speed bumps everywhere and thinking that solves anything.

[first mate]

RH,

I had though mobility scooters are allowed into cycle lanes in Holland?

With an increasing ageing population I'd have though mobility scooters will be on the rise as will campaigns to open up cycle paths to users. It is probably something that needs thinking about. If a significant amount of investment is being made to creating cycle ways then in the interests of equality of access, these other users should be considered. I am not sure access to pavements is a real solution.

[first mate]

rahrahrah, agreed.

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

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> RH,

>

> I had though mobility scooters are allowed into

> cycle lanes in Holland?

>

> With an increasing ageing population I'd have

> though mobility scooters will be on the rise as

> will campaigns to open up cycle paths to users. It

> is probably something that needs thinking about.

> If a significant amount of investment is being

> made to creating cycle ways then in the interests

> of equality of access, these other users should be

> considered. I am not sure access to pavements is a

> real solution.

I don't really see this as much of an issue at present, FM: where there are segregated cycle lanes - Blackfriars Bridge Road, Victoria Embankment - there are massive wide pavements both sides of the road which can easily accommodate mobility scooters. If it becomes more of an issue in future maybe it will have to be looked at (possibly the whole issue of anybody, regardless of age and health, being permitted to use mobility scooters might need addressing), but in my opinion it would be ridiculous to allow them onto cycle lanes. The lane along Victoria Embankment, for example, is just wide enough for two mobility scooters to pass each other, so at rush hour you'd have hundreds of cyclists coming in both directions being forced to come to a standstill to allow this to happen. It'd be dangerous for both the people using the scooters and cyclists.

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic to those who have to use mobility scooters but I just can't see allowing them to block up the new cycle lanes, which are currently working so well, as a viable option.

ETA if some future administration wants to widen the paths to make room for mobility scooters so that they don't impose on the free flow of cyclists, fine - they're just not wide enough at present.

[first mate]

Well, I may be wrong but I see this could be an issue down the line. It is certainly something to think about. In my view the able-bodied should not use mobility scooters but defining the degree of disability is quite tricky.

To return to the speeding issue, if I go out on a bike I am more likely to 'fordle' along (to choose another posters expression). Being made to feel I can only use cycle lanes if I am fit and able enough go at a speed that pleases those who are commuting etc.. is most definitely off putting.

[rendelharris]

first mate Wrote:

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> Well, I may be wrong but I see this could be an

> issue down the line. It is certainly something to

> think about. In my view the able-bodied should not

> use mobility scooters but defining the degree of

> disability is quite tricky.

>

> To return to the speeding issue, if I go out on a

> bike I am more likely to 'fordle' along (to

> choose another posters expression). Being made to

> feel I can only use cycle lanes if I am fit and

> able enough go at a speed that pleases those who

> are commuting etc.. is most definitely off

> putting.

I agree, defining who should be able to use a mobility scooter would be tricky, though we already have the system determining who should be permitted a blue badge.

I don't think anyone's suggested you have to be fit and fast to use the cycle lanes and I hope that wouldn't put you off. I only intermittently use them at rush hour but I've not seen any conflict between those who are quite nippy and those who want to fordle (good word) - the slower stay to the left and the faster overtake towards the centre, just as with motorised traffic. I've only suggested that if you want to ride in rush hour traffic on the roads with motor vehicles it's best to be able to keep up a reasonable speed or you'll find yourself the target of aggression and also being pushed dangerously towards the gutters. Hopefully as more segregated provision is built this will become less and less of an issue.