international accountancy experience for a "pensioner"?

[pato]

Hi there

I was reading an ad on here couple of weeks ago regarding getting retired earlyish. It was interesting to read different point of views..

From my side I have decided to get retired in my 45 this year, move abroad somewhere sunnier in Europe with Spain and Italy top of the list atm.

Money has never been that important to me and i think i might have just enough for my needs to retire somewhere warmer and i am not talking only temperatures here..

I have some assets in London and a long time assistant that can run things.

I thought I will have enough to make a living in Spain or Italy so I started my process few weeks ago...straight after Brexit precisely..

So now, and i go to the point I understand from my researches that I don t need to pay double taxes but i need anyway to pay twice the taxes. I am happy to pay taxes in here but do I need to pay over there also...REALLY?

I understand that if for instance I pay 20% taxes in UK and i stay in spain or italy (where tax pressure is roughly 45%) for more than 6 months I ll have to pay the remaining 25% tax locally...:(

In my case we are not talking huge money so it might make a difference.

Anyone has experience with it as done it before?

Anyone knows an international tax accountant well enough to recommend him?

Anyone has an idea if i really need an international accountant or perhaps a different professional...financial advisor maybe??

Anyone can bring some order in my head:) ?

I am happy to give some detail privately if it helps to understand if and how much i ll need to pay

Thanx for replying

[KidKruger]

Check UK Govt tax website and also those of the countries you are considering.

This way you can at least start to form a picture of what the position might be and it'll help you with the conversation if you do engage a tax specialist to advise you / help you see-off the BS you may be fed by them.

You owe it to yourself to do at least that in front.

Basically (as you probably already know) domicile will be a feature in this exercise.

[Mina]

many countries have double taxation agreements, where you only pay the difference.

I don't think this will change any time soon post brexit.

I am Croatian, and I would retire there if I was you:)

I am definitely not objective!

[pato]

I also Thought about Croatia but than the language etc...

So in this sense a double taxation agreement doesn t say that if I pay taxes in UK i don t need to pay somewhere else...it says that if i stay more than 183 days In spain (for instance) i need to pay my 20% (roughly) tax in here UK and than later the difference in between that 20% and whatever it s the fiscal pressure in Spain. So if it is 45% (roughly) in spain I need to pay 20% in here and 25% over there

So that I don t pay double taxes but I pay taxes twice..is that correct???

Don t find it fair though..

[Alan Medic]

What will you do if you find a girlfriend?

[KrackersMaracas]

Yes that is right. If you wish to be a resident of a certain country and spend a significant proportion of your time there, why shouldn't you be taxed as a local would be? You'll find that different countries have different amounts of time you can spend locally to be counted as "resident" and that many individuals (Including jumpin' jack flash) closely monitor all time spent in the UK (and other countries) to make sure they never exceed a certain threshold. If you timed it well you could determine the local residency test in Spain and ensure you leave in a tax year where you will not have the necessary days residence in Spain to class as "local", thereby paying a full 20% on all earnings in e.g. 2016/17 tax year in the U.K. and then inform HMRC that you are severing all ties and start the 17/18 tax year in Spain as a local resident paying the full local rate of income tax.

[pato]

As far as it might sounds stupid I still do not understand why shall i pay tax twice....

I m not gonna use their HS ..will pay for my tickets on the transports...will pay my dentist privately etc..

I can easily understand local taxes (the equivalent here of council tax) as I ll be consuming their roads and using their lights..but why on my income which is generated in UK where I already do pay taxes...? I will use NHS where i pay taxes and so on...

Anyway don t want to get into the rights or wrongs just need to understand the way it works and surely I need to see some professional... maybe an international accountant?...but for instance:

Lets say someone generates an income in uk of ?2000 after some 30 yrs work breaking his/her back..! Those 2000 minus 20% tax in Uk ..minus 25% difference in Spain...minus some little% for an accountant or whatever i might need (without counting I am sure there will be a fee to transfer money from uk to spain) .......that will leave this person with ?1000 to live on so...no choice really than staying here and keep working is it..?

So ...i am wondering if i m free or I have perhaps done something wrong in my life I am not aware of and need to stay somewhere i don t wanna stay (reminds me jail or hospital) and need to keep working although for my needs I could easily retire...(reminds me of slavery)! Answer will probably be i am fee to do what i want as far as I pay...(that reminds me of MAfia )

I thought it will be just plain simple to pay taxes where your income is generated...

My income is in UK , i use nhs etc etc in uk so I pay here!

As i am sure also i won t be really capable of living without working in my age whenever I find a job in spain I pay taxes for that income..

is that too easy??

[pato]

Also I m not gonna live timing my stay somewhere...not gonna live out of a rucksack for the rest of my days..

[pato]

If I knew all of this before I would have indulged life on benefits for a few decades...I guess that s what younger generation are thinking..

As an engineer in italy or spain after your degrees and master degree etc You might get lucky (and trust me You need luck) and get a job for 1500 euros per month and be able to pay your 45/50% taxes that will leave you with 7/800 euros income when a 1 bed flat in any (not major though) city will cost you 500 cpm plus bills....so that will leave our engineer with less than 200 for himself to spend...

OF course they ll think let s move to UK and live on the dole is it?? You might have 200 euros after taxes and rent left for you...while on the dole after housing benefit you get pretty much the same on unemployment benefit but still you don t need to work 45 hrs per week on the chain...

If I was in my 20 I will get this message...

I think more than on Brexit, england should have made a point on this in Europe..

Anyway I m not here to save the planet, europe or Uk nor not to pay my taxes. I ll pay taxes once only and not twice even if i have to go living thailand or nepal or africa...

I m really happy to pay my taxes and proud of it...but not stupid or slave to someone

[pato]

Regarding Alan Medic :)

My situation is pretty flexible i could stay here and keep working if i had a reason...

I have been working very very very very hard for the past 30 yrs as I pay my bills all included since i was 16yo..hardly ever cash in end and always paid my taxes as i believe in a system whatever it is..

But staying in here paying nearly a fiver for a pint and the bartender hardly smiles to me....than i d rather pay 1 euro per beer in spain..

Of course if i had family kids wife etc it will be a different matter eventually but atm I don t see any reason to pay a fiver per beer especially with brexit as I buy in euros and sell in pounds...

I still think my best shot is to relocate and not my fault for the 4 people staff (all of them with family) that work with me..I didn t decide brexit and i wasn t even entitled to vote after nearly 20 yrs in here..