Dulwich Hamlets noise pollution!

[peterstorm1985]

Dear Davide,

I think it would be really helpful if you would let us know what the solution you are working on is, if only in principle. I don't think that DJKQ is being petulant; I think she's just trying to make sure that DH comply with the law. Continued breach of a condition without complaint might be used as an argument to widen the licence at a later date. It would be such a shame if the flouting of the conditions on the Folk nights led to an extension such that the problems that the OP referred to were allowed under a renewed licence.

But, I do believe that everyone should be given a second chance and perhaps there was a genuine misunderstanding by DH of what the licence conditions said, so if you would be so kind as to explain how you intend to resolve this issue that would be much appreciated.

[sylvie]

OK, I actually think DJKQ has really fought my case and been really helpful in providing an argument about breach of license. Can I make it clear though - IT IS NOT THE FOLK NIGHTS THAT HAVE DISTURBED ME! It is the dance/house/mc-ing parties that go on beyond midnight with a boom boom base line coupled with the loud drunkenness of those who wish to scream and shout whilst outside having a fag. Davide - does this come under your remit of responsibility? If so, then it would be great if you could ensure that the windows/shutters are closed at 10.30pm as stated in the license. That's all we really want. Peace and quiet after a certain time, not to stop all events. Also, perhaps the control of private party on a Friday night and another private party on a Saturday night can be changed slightly - perhaps only one night of the weekend be a private party with loud boom boom music. What I would really like is reassurance that the windows will be closed and music will stop after midnight as started in the agreement. How you police it, I don't know.

I am not the only resident down here who's been disturbed. A resolution and a peaceful night's sleep is all I ask for. Please can everyone stop getting narky with everyone else. It's not helpful and doesn't resolve anything. DJKQ - thanks for your help and I don't think you were being rude - just pointing out the facts.

Davide - thank you for your help too if you are able to resolve the issues.

If the issues are not resolved then I shall be in contact with the relevant council officials to make a formal complaint. I think that'll make everyone's lives fairly awkward, won't it?

[souc1a]

We live behind DHFC and have been disturbed well after midnight by very loud music and MCing.I will email Davide, but just wanted to add that we are also disturbed by the noise and while it's not very night, when it happens it can be a real pain; in May there were two nights which went on to 2 or 3 in the morning. We have a baby as do our neighbours, who I believe were part of the previously mentioned petition, and I hope that people can understand that when the noise is so loud it wakes sleeping babes and their tired parents then this is a problem.

We fully support the football club and love the sounds of a game of football drifting over our fence, but not the bass bashing through our windows!

[James Barber]

IF you are distrubed by noises you believe to be unreasonable then you should call the Southwark Council noise hotline 020 7525 2000. It operates 24/7/365 and the noise team expect to be on site within 45minutes to hear the noise themselves from your home. The more people that make a complaint about a particular noise problem the higher up the priorities to attend in person.

If you have repeated disturbances you should make a noise diary recording all the details of every incident. Quite possible that everytime the noise team attend the noise has gone by the time they arrive. Hence the importance of a noise diary.

If a premises repeatedly breaches it licence then it will lose it licence.

If this service fails you in anyway please tell me.

[sylvie]

Souc1a - I am glad I am not alone - I feel reassured. The more that write on this forum, the bigger the case, but like James says - a noise diary is important. I have had to resort to wearing ear plugs in order to get to sleep so sometimes I may have missed what time the parties go on until. My boyfriend was woken up the other night because of a party, but didn't know what time - it was beyond midnight. I think it might have been this weekend gone. Did you hear it too? Do you know what time it was?

[DJKillaQueen]

Yes keep a diary, with dates and times and descriptions of disturbance, especially now that you know what the licence allows. It will help to get some action in respect to the areas that are breached. The licensing department can review/ suspend and/or cancel the licence swiftly upon complaint.

I think James in his earlier post also suggested informing the SNT (Safer Neighbourhood Team) too. The Police can use powers where a breach in the licence for the sale of alcohol occurs under the Criminal Justice and Police Act of 2001. What this means is that a premise has 7 days to remedy the breach, after which the Police can apply to a magistrate for closure of the premises. So if it is the case that DH abuse the 11pm sale of alcohol condition, the Police can visit, and issue intent to close if the breach occurs again within 7 days.

With regards to all other licence breaches, they have to go to the licensing department.

My advice would be to speak with the licence holder. make it clear that you now understand the terms of the licence held and that you won't put up with the breaches that disturb you anymore. If DH ignore that and continue as before, involve the Police on the 'sale of alcohol' issue (don't take the nonsense that DH has a 1 am licence for that, because they don't) and use the licensing authority for the rest. They will act.

[jumpinjackflash]

Sylvie, your suggestion "perhaps only one night of the weekend be a private party with loud boom boom music.." - are you serious? Whether it's a WI meeting with cucumber sarnies or a 1993 Acid House reunion - it's a function room that can be hired privately, therefore their clientelle can do whatever the hell they want to do.

Yes, DH may need to rethink their sound proofing and yes, at some point the management should submit/post proof of their license to reassure you all (although I have a feeling they might have better things to be getting on with than reading this forum), but you cannot dictate to DH how to run their business!

[sylvie]

You're right, of course, I cannot dictate what DH do with their business. It was merely a suggestion .....

[DJKillaQueen]

but you cannot dictate to DH how to run their business!

You can when the license is breached. I have posted the licence DH have on this thread. There is NO other licence (and anyone who wants to verify that for themselves can call southwark licensing on 020 7525 5748). Along with hours the license contains specific measures for noise control that DH must take.

[The Minkey]

I'm totally with DJKillaQueen on this one: Those are the conditions writ large - don't understand why people are arguing it..

[James Barber]

For Dulwich Hamlet to disturb residential neighbours is quite a feat.

The nearest homes to the club house are over 100m away. That must be some noise THEY are allowing to happen by private parties.

Either way if the eivdence is collected that they are breaching their licence then a licence review should be called and potentially they'll lose their licence if they have been proven to be unable to run a proper business.

It is a basic human right to have a fmaily life undisturbed by others.

Lots of evidence that intrusive noise leads to increased mortality, lower achievement, etc.

If you are being dustrubed keep a noise diary and call 020 7525 2000 every time. Don't be a silent victim and please don't see posting on this forum as alternative to fixing the problem once and for all.

[jumpinjackflash]

I might give Southwark a call thanks for the number.....actually, I just realised I have a life and have better and more important tasks to be getting on with.

[DJKillaQueen]

There is only one reason why the licence holder hasn't come forth with an alternate license to the one I posted lol (after all he has posted elsewhere on this forum). And I would say that it's probably in DH's interests to read this thread rather than continuing with breaches and suffering the consequences of that.

[DJKillaQueen]

jjflash....you would not say such a daft thing if you lived next door to a premise that breaches it's terms and thank goodness there are people who care enough to make sure that the licenses granted are appropriate with a process that allows for consultation with those who may be most affected....and that in turn, there are those who work to enforce those licenses. Do you really want a world where businesses can do as they please with no legal responsibility to those their actions may affect? C'mon?

James is absolutely right. Don't put up with it.

[peterstorm1985]

PPF Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DJKillaQueen , the license has been updated to

> reflect the clubs's activities!

>

> What else can we do for you?

>

> Davide

Dear Davide (PPF),

please would you confirm the licence number and the date that it was last renewed (just the month/year is enough) so that we can have no doubt whatsoever of what the licence conditions are.

You said in an earlier post that you had found a solution and were working on it - do you mean that you have just had the licence amended in the last few days? If so, it would be very helpful if you would provide a link.

If that isn't the 'solution' you referred to, what happened to the 'solution'?

Thanks

[DJKillaQueen]

The licence can't be ammended without an application for variation which then goes out to public consultation so that is bs.

[DJKillaQueen]

Davide who are you? You are not the licence holder or the club owner. It's not your responsibility. The ONLY person that should be engaging in discussion with complainants about breaches of license is the license holder.

The licence has NOT been ammended since 2009 when the previous variations were applied. It's terms and operating hours are clear. To ammend it requires an application for variation followed by a process of consultation where those immediately affected have the right to oppose it. Minutes from all parts of that process are published as well.

I deal with licensing issues all the time so stop trying to bs people in the forum. Either produce a licence number different to the one on the licensing register or acknowledge the terms as they currently are. You are not doing DH any favours by making false claims in a public forum.

[james84]

Thats a pretty libellous comment there DJKQ, especially for someone who has come on here and ofefred his own personal email address to anyone who has an issue. You obviously just have way to much time on your hands and like getting involved in things that dont concern you. Dont get me wrong its great that you are happy to get involved and offer advice to Sylvie who started this thread, thats what this forum is for, but I think you have now taken it far enough.

The issue obviously doesnt concern you directly and you have put across your views on the matter. Its time now for the people who it does concern to take charge of the situation, follow your advice and talk to the licensee, Davide or the council themselves. To starting accusing someone of bs-ing people istaking it a little far, when he has shown good faith in entering into conversation.

[expat]

>You are not the licence holder or the club owner. It's not your responsibility

DJKQ are you?

[DJKillaQueen]

It's not libellous. I have maintained all the time what licence DH holds and have provided evidence of it. Davide now and indeed Nick (the license holder) on another thread claim DH to have a different licence but have provided NO evidience of it. I have also given details for anyone who wants to check for themselves if the information I have posted is correct.

To then further claim the license has now been ammended when it hasn't and can't possibly have been for the reasons I stated above, questions the validity of Davide's comments (although it might be something that has come from the license holder without Davide having actually seen any proof). To say that DH have the license they need for the activities they run is not a true statement when they hold private events that based on what residents are saying, clearly breach the terms of that license.

The licensing authorities (whom for all you know I might work for) have a view on that?

It is in the public interest that license terms are adherred to. I don't have to be an immediate resident to want to see that happen. And as it also a public forum, I can post as often as I like and will continue to do so when DH or those claiming to speak for them infer that they have a different license to the one they actually have.

[DJKillaQueen]

No but nor am I speaking on behalf of the club or license holder either.

Anyway....the point is that DH can't defend their late night parties and breaches of their license.

expat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >You are not the licence holder or the club owner.

> It's not your responsibility

> DJKQ are you?

[james84]

Correct me if im wrong but ll they are noty allowed to do is serve alcohol past 11pm, they are fully entitled under the terms of the license to play music, as they have a license for that, as long as it is inside. The license does not stipulate any time that the venue must close, only that there should be no new admissions past 12am. So strictly speaking, they have alicense for their activities unless alcohol is being SOLD, and no one seems to be accusing them of serving past this time.

[DJKillaQueen]

There ARE opening hours defined in the license as follows (every premise has opening hours as part of the license):

Opening hours: Monday 10:00 to 23:00

Tuesday 10:00 to 23:00

Wednesday 10:00 to 23:00

Thursday 10:00 to 00:00

Friday 09:00 to 01:30

Saturday 09:00 to 01:30

Sunday 12:00 to 01:00

The Op complains of parties at the weekend going on beyond 1.30 am. That is clearly a breach.

Live music and entertainment is licensed until midnight only (or 9pm in relation to anything involving dancing).

Granted licensable activities: Facilities for dancing - indoors

Monday 07:00 to 21:00

Tuesday 07:00 to 21:00

Wednesday 07:00 to 21:00

Thursday 07:00 to 21:00

Live music - indoors and outdoors

Friday 19:00 to 00:00

Saturday 19:00 to 00:00

Sunday 19:00 to 23:00

Ambient music is not a licensable activity so is fine. What the license is interested in is ?noisy? activities - live acts, bands/ PA systems delivering loud music. An MC for example would be classed as a live act and so can not happen after midnight. The OP compains that this has happened.

In addition DH are required to monitor noise levels from the exterior regularly and ensure they are below disruptive levels (as part of the license). The noise pollution teams have db limits measured from a residents home as a measure for that.

Nick (license holder) claims he has a late bar licence til 1 am on Fri and Sat so we can safely assume he is selling alcohol past the times shown on the license as below.

Sale by retail of alcohol to be consumed on premises

Monday 10:00 to 23:00

Tuesday 10:00 to 23:00

Wednesday 10:00 to 23:00

Thursday 10:00 to 23:00

Friday 10:00 to 23:00

Saturday 10:00 to 23:00

Sunday 12:00 to 22:30

It would not be difficult anyway to establish if alcohol is being sold after 11 pm on the premises and requires a big leap of faith to believe that a private party going on till 3am (one of the things the OP complains of) was operating with a soft drinks only bar. If however someone hiring the venue wanted to provide their own alcohol to be given free to guests that would be fine. It is the 'sale' of alcohol that is regulated.

They can however serve hot food and hot drinks til 1am fri and sat (and I think they have cofused that with the 'sale of alcohol' part of the license).

Late night refreshment - indoors

Thursday 23:00 to 00:00

Friday 23:00 to 01:00

Saturday 23:00 to 01:00

Sunday 22:30 to 01:00

Whatever the club is used for at the weekends it should be finished and closed by 1.30 am. According to the OP this has not always been the case.

And just to add that the council are required by LAW to keep an up to date record of all licenses (and applications)and make them available for public inspection free of charge. So there is no possibility of there being any other license other than the one I have referred to.

[charliecharlie]

I do hope the outcome of this thread does not undermine the live music events at The Hamlets.

I have been to quite a few. I have seen some great stuff going on there, with real music talent. But the best things about the gigs there is that they are very relaxed, affordable for all, and have a unpretentious sort of feel which encourages all types and ages to engage with live music.

I think this is true asset to the area and something that The Hamlets should be proud of.

Come on EDF show your support!!! These sort of enterprises need our encouragement.

ps I have never been to a live music event that has run over the times set out by the licence agreement

or seen any unacceptable behavior going on there...

xxCC

[Jeremy]

Exactly, Charlie. It is an asset to the area, and I know it means a lot to Sue, Davide, and others. I think live music is important. Let's hope this can be solved without too much more mud-slinging.