Dulwich Hamlets noise pollution!

[PeckhamRose]

You know for a fact she comes from the Home Counties?

[James Barber]

This site is in South Camberwell ward.

It seems clear this premise is breaching its licence.

You can contact the licensing department via the following email [email protected] and complain giving examples of the issues.

I'd recommend you copy in the local South Camberwell Police Safer Neighbourhood Team [email protected] so they appreciate local concerns and potentially ask them to make it one of their priorities.

[ruffers]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DJKillaQueen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I've just looked at their licence. You can view

> it

> > here

> >

> > The sale of alcohol from the bar is only

> licensed

> > till 11.00 pm

> >

> > And no part of the license allows them to have

> > music or other entertainments beyond midnight

> > (earlier on Sundays) with dancing limitted to

> > 9pm.

> >

> > AND it also says as part of their license that

> -

> > '348 - All windows will be fixed shut'.

> >

> > I hate to be a stickler on this but the licence

> > they hold would have been granted with

> > consideration for local environmental impact

> and

> > it sounds as though they clearly are breaching

> the

> > terms of their license on a regular basis.

>

> I suggest you move back to Hampshire?

Would that change the facts then? Ridiculous comment.

[DJKillaQueen]

Thank you James for comfirming that.

Let me ask you this 'bestnames'. What is the point of liscensing, if bars and venues ignore the terms?

Licenses are designed to consider both the premises and to protect local residents from nuisance. They are often a compromise between what both parties ideally want. It's not nimbyism to require that premises stick to the terms of their licenses, it's common sense.

And I've never even been to Hampshire btw. In fact, you are not even close.

[James Barber]

I've not agreed with everything DJKillaQueen has said in the past but she is spot on with this.

Unfettered operation of premises would lead to a wild west scenario. No one would invest in their homes or small businesses for fear of the next unlicensed premise opening up next door or across the road. Licensing leads to some certainty for residents and businesses. They know that their investment is partly protected from others opening up and the capital investment to get it right.

[sylvie]

Thanks everyone - the sensible input has been really helpful. I will make a note next time we have an issue and deal with it accordingly in the meantime, I'll send an e-mail to Nick McCormack and see what he says. It's not the first time I've spoken to him so perhaps this time he'll take note.

[Weegee]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you James for comfirming that.

>

> Let me ask you this 'bestnames'. What is the point

> of liscensing, if bars and venues ignore the

> terms?

>

> Licenses are designed to consider both the

> premises and to protect local residents from

> nuisance. They are often a compromise between what

> both parties ideally want. It's not nimbyism to

> require that premises stick to the terms of their

> licenses, it's common sense.

>

> And I've never even been to Hampshire btw. In

> fact, you are not even close.

I agree with the issue of licencing.

We were living behind the ground on Burrow Road and 2 years ago..the noise used to be a major problem. In fact one of the residents launched a petition. But they got the shutters in and it was no longer a problem.

I support the football club, seeking to earn money from putting these parties on...but they have to respect the licence terms and locals. Having music past 1 , in fact 2 is out of order.

Good luck talking to Nick, Sylvie

Last night i was at the footie and saw that they had industrial fans in the bar...

So maybe there is no reason for not bringing the shutters down on a Saturday night?

[DJKillaQueen]

In the license the shutters are required to be closed at 10.30pm without exception and the windows to be closed at all times during music, events, parties etc. If they fail to do either or both they are in breach of the licence. Obviously those conditions are in place to protect local residents from noise (and there should be no noise at all after midnight).

Like you I have no issue with DHFC making money from their facilities but they must adhere to the terms of their license.

[Sue]

Putting the shutters down makes the room seem like being in some kind of air raid shelter or something. It's horrendous from the inside.

I have every sympathy with people who are being disturbed by noise, but can we keep some kind of proportion?

How often does this disturbance actually happen?

We hold Goose gigs at DHFC once a month, and I would be mortified if I thought they were disturbing people living nearby in any way.

We spent a summer looking for a suitable local venue after we were kicked out of the EDT without warning, we were lucky enough to find DHFC, and we've spent over two years building up the Goose.

We started out because we really wanted to bring folk music back to East Dulwich, and we bring really top artists here. If we have to close the shutters we might as well give up.

[sylvie]

Live music is fantastic - folk music in particular. We are not disturbed by your events - promise. We are disturbed the MC-ing and loud boom boom music that gets through to your bones and goes on into the early hours. Once you start to hear it, you really hear it and if it goes on beyond midnight, it really stops you from sleeping and wakes you up especially as there is no other noise around at that time of night.

Please understand that I am not against DHFC's venue hire nor am I against live music in any way shape or form. In fact, we all need venues to work from and hold events at and I am totally pro the football club making money. Everyone has the right to do this. My complaint is only about music that goes on into the small hours with loud mc-ing and dance music. I don't want to hear the base through my bones when I sleep. That is all. I think sleep is a normal desire, don't you? And although it is not every week, it shouldn't be happening at all especially if they are breaching their license.

Sue - I shall check out your Goose Gigs - I would love to come. I love live music and I don't want your events to stop.

[thebestnameshavegone]

To summarise: Folk music (which I like) = good

'Rap / boom boom music' (which I don't like / attracts the 'wrong sort') = bad

[Jeremy]

Or...

Folk music (which is quieter) = fine

Boom boom music (which is louder, bass-heavy, and travels) = nuisance

[Sue]

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To summarise: Folk music (which I like) = good

>

> 'Rap / boom boom music' (which I don't like /

> attracts the 'wrong sort') = bad

xxxxxx

The point was about different noise levels which disturb people's sleep, not about the merits of different kinds of music :)

ETA: Thanks Jeremy, you put it better

[DJKillaQueen]

Sue those are the terms of the license and technically anyone has the right to insist the venue abides by them. Otherwise as said before, what is the point of licensing? Licenses don't come with a 'here are the conditions - but you can ignore the odd one' because it 'spoils the atmosphere'. The conditions are there for a reason.

But yes some events will cause genuine 'nuisance' while others won't. Closed windows will be enough to control noise for some gigs. It's up to local residents to decide if they are sufficiently disturbed or not.

The key breach anyway seems to be where the event/ sale of alcohol or both exceed the hours of the licence (and on that there is no leeway). I'm sure your 'Goose' gigs don't go past midnight whereas private parties clearly have done on occasion and local residents don't have to put up with that when the conditions/ hours of the license protects them.

If DH want a different licence then they need to apply for it and argue their case, instead of thinking they can break the terms of their current license at will (whilst every other venue Pub/ bar and so on is expected to abide by theirs). The only reason we are having this conversation is because they have, it seems, shown no respect for the rules.

[DJKillaQueen]

We spent a summer looking for a suitable local venue after we were kicked out of the EDT without warning, we were lucky enough to find DHFC, and we've spent over two years building up the Goose.

Where you regularly break the terms of the license according to your own website (and clearly think you should be able to from your comments).....late bar with record of 3am?

By all means use the venue but also respect the rules. If you want to apply for an extended licence for your gigs only you can do so (although they are limited to a certain number per year per venue). Given the nature of the music at your gigs you probably would be successful but I doubt the shutter rule would be lifted. That's the compromise of being in an Urban area.

[Jeremy]

Cut it out DJKQ, local residents have already said that they aren't bothered my the folk nights.

[DJKillaQueen]

No I won't cut it out...the rules apply to everyone.

DH can NOT sell aclohol after 11pm .....end of. They can't have music after midnight...end of.

NO exceptions. And if they want to keep their license they need to start abiding by it.

[ruffers]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Cut it out DJKQ, local residents have already said

> that they aren't bothered my the folk nights.

One person on this forum has raised the subject of being disturbed, and that individual has said they don't mind folk music. That's one person.

I tend to see DJKQ's argument, the license is the license and if it's being breached it doesn't matter if it's nosebleed techno or acoustic folk, or anything in between, shutters and windows should be shut and other terms followed otherwise they're in breach. As she says if we ignore that then it just becomes an unregulated free for all and we may as well just have raves in the car park (which I'd fancy..)

[Sue]

As the owner of DHFC has said

HERE

there is a late licence till 1am on Fridays and Saturdays.

ETA: The reference to 3am in the middle of a little-visited page of our website, which DJKQ must have gone through with a very fine tooth comb to find, was to one night after a Dick Gaughan gig when a few people stayed on very late to chat whilst we were clearing up.

It was not intended to imply that the bar was open till 3am - I'm sure the bar staff were well tucked up in their beds by then!

I have now removed it as I can see it was confusing,

[peterstorm1985]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As the owner of DHFC has said

>

> HERE

>

> there is a late licence till 1am on Fridays and

> Saturdays.

Hi Sue, this link just takes us to another thread on the ED forum. Could you provide a link to the late licence on the Southwark licensing register - the number will do. That will clear up this bit of the argument on this thread.

Otherwise, I do think there is a problem if the licensing terms are being breached, even if the folk music doesn't cause any specific complaint. I don't think in licensing terms it is possible to specify an exclusion for certain music types - it's too difficult to define so the rules are the same for all types of music - but the fact that the terms have been breached regularly but rarely complained of could be used later as an argument to broaden the licensing terms.

[Sue]

peterstorm1985 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>>

> Hi Sue, this link just takes us to another thread

> on the ED forum.

xxxxx

It takes you to a thread in which Nick, the owner of DHFC, has stated that there is a late licence till 1pm on Fridays and Saturdays.

I don't know how to link to a specific post in the thread, and I don't think there's a way to do that.

[taper]

If Dick Gaughan was involved in the "chat" then no licence on Earth should limit the great man.

[Jeremy]

ruffers, DJKQ - I am not the kind of person to complain about people not sticking to the rules if it is not hurting anyone. That's obviously the difference here...

[DJKillaQueen]

According to Southwark licensing register (where ALL licences are registered) there is only ONE licence with no late bar provision (the link to which I posted earlier). The licence allows him to be open to 1.30 fri and sat but it does NOT allow him to sell alcohol past 11pm or to have music past midnight. That is the issue. He is also required to have the windows sut and the shutters down at 10.30pm.

It's the alcohol and music part of the licence that is the issue here. HE DOES NOT HAVE A LATE BAR LICENCE.

Sale by retail of alcohol to be consumed on premises

Monday 10:00 to 23:00

Tuesday 10:00 to 23:00

Wednesday 10:00 to 23:00

Thursday 10:00 to 23:00

Friday 10:00 to 23:00

Saturday 10:00 to 23:00

Sunday 12:00 to 22:30

[jumpinjackflash]

DJKQ, perhaps Southwark need to update their records as I can tell you now, DHFC do have a late license. If it bothers you that much maybe discuss this issue with Southwark.