The old Waitrose nugget is back to haunt us!

[RosieH]

Well Mick, if you don't mind heading out with me and my cat o nine tails, then come and join the fun.

[Mick Mac]

stop.....

[MrBen]

Somewhere in the distance.....a dog barked....

[woofmarkthedog]

MrBen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Somewhere in the distance.....a dog barked....

________________________________________________________

Ah Ha...

Made you look , made you stare ( at the waitrose site & staying ON topic )

* big GRIN *

W**F

[woofmarkthedog]

This isn't any old Farmer...

*soft porn soudtrack plays*

http://www.waitrose.com/assets/img/content/productrange_meat.jpg This is a Waitrose Farmer...

..and this isn't any old "Back Breaking" work..

http://www.waitrose.com/assets/img/content/organicpickers.jpg ..this is Waitrose Back Breaking work

..and this isn't YOUR Waitrose Supermarket

This is Beckenham's Waitrose Supermarket

So get over it....

http://www.waitrose.com/assets/img/christmas08/logos/waitrose.gif

NOT ON A HIGH STREET ANYWHERE NEAR YOU

W**F

[SalubriousSyddersin]

I think there're a few home-truths that need to be told to a number of posters on this thread. Allow me to enlighten those currently in the dark...

Mark Price, M.D. of Waitrose was interviewed in the last week or so on Radio4's 'You and Yours' programme. He was asked what the process is in selecting a site for Waitrose. The first - and most critical - is the propensity of the resident demographic to prefer/wish/want/do to shop at Waitrose. Like it or not this will be that old chestnut of demographics. The second - but almost as critical factor - is finding suitable premises. These premises need to be of a certain size in square feet, have a certain amount of parking etc. It's unlikely that a new site will be built that is large enough due to local resistance so they either have to take over a current site (they could take over your Iceland for example or oust another chain, as they did in Lewes) or build a smaller convenience store.

I'm afraid to be the bearer of bad news but it's clear that East Dulwich simply failed on the first point. There clearly aren't enough people in East Dulwich who fall within the highest social grade. Hence, why you aren't getting a Waitrose. I wonder what Mick Mac's point is? You say you get Waitrose to deliver. I assume you mean Ocado? You do know Ocado are nothing to do with Waitrose? They're outsourced, you know? Assuming you actually mean Waitrose's own service the one in Sydders will not be big enough to offer this service. Wishful thinking old chap that they're setting up in Sydders to merely service ED but woefully innacurate!

Sydders is an odd one. Clealry Waitrose sees the amount of affluence that is here; despite the hideous 'shop-window' of a High St we currently have. Sydders has a number of '7figure' roads. It has a number of residential conservation areas. It has the ripple-effect of Sydenham High for Girls here on Westwood Hill - I believe it came the highest of any 'GDST' public school within London in the tables? Look it up if you don't know what the gdst is. The last census showed a fairly sizeable proportion of it's residents in the highest-social grade. Crane your neck around the High St next time you drive through and you might be surprised at the pleasant well-heeled streets you spy. Probably keep your eyes shut though when you get down to Lower Sydenham/Bell Green though! There has been a great deal of gang trouble around the 'Home Park' area.

It's also brilliantly connected with the new ELL (overground) giving us 8 air-conditioned trains to the city/docklands an hour plus our 4 p.h. from Southern to L.Bridge. The next phase of the ELL will link us up to Clapham although we have 2 p.h. to there currently anyway with Southern. We'll pass to First Capital Connect in a year or thereabouts so trains will go to Blackfriars etc instead...it's becoming a real City-boys haunt. I should know...

Yes, we do have a shabby High St. But this week sees a wet-fish bar and organic butchers opening up. The problem with the High St is it currently primarily serves the residents of the estates that we have who cannot afford to nor have means to travel. So there's a few too many lower-rent stores (?shops etc). We've had possibly the best gastropub within a 5mile radius open up to rave reviews and we've got JH Skincare and Alhambra actually defect form ED. Blue Mountain is doing incredibly well as is the independent coffee shop...seems the only shops that are closing down are the purveyors of tat! Mercifully. TfL are about to spend in the order of ?4M doing up the High St for pedestrians and motor-vehicles.

Yes, this is slightly verbose but I thought it worthwhile pointing out that there are good reasons for Waitrose coming to Sydders and not to ED. Like it or not, it's down to cold, hard business reasons. BTW - we've got a Co-op too! And no, I don't work for anything connected to any Civic Society or Lewisham Council. I don't know if Sydders is being gentrified, more a case of being re-gentrified as it was once rather posh and could in time be so again. I'm not sure East Dulwich was ever anything more than where those that served in the large homes in Dulwich Village and Sydenham Hill lived? But I will admit it's done a better job of marketing itself than Sydders. For what it's worth I thought it was M&S Simply Food that was slated to come to 'The Greyhound' development in Sydders but there's another place that Waitrose can move into.

Hurrah for Waitrose!

[Brendan]

Sheesh it's just a shop folks. They don't even sell pickled onion Monster Munch and the air conditioning is too cold. I went in the other day to get one of those bottles of Sauvignon Blanc with the bicycle on it that they sell and I like. The sort that goes perfectly with pickled onion Monster Munch but did they have any? Did they buggery.

Had to get my puffed corn snack from the petrol station.

[HonaloochieB]

Thanks for the humility check SS, though I confess it has rather left me feeling quite the piece of cheese.

[Brendan]

What sort of cheese?

And are you just stroking it or getting propperly in there with your fingers?

[HonaloochieB]

Organic Dairylea.

[SalubriousSyddersin]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sheesh it's just a shop folks. They don't even

> sell pickled onion Monster Munch and the air

> conditioning is too cold. I went in the other day

> to get one of those bottles of Sauvignon Blanc

> with the bicycle on it that they sell and I like.

> The sort that goes perfectly with pickled onion

> Monster Munch but did they have any? Did they

> buggery.

>

> Had to get my puffed corn snack from the petrol

> station.

Erm, Waitrose do actually stock Pickled Onion Monster Munch. I know as it's something of an occasional guilty pleasure. They'll even deliver it via WaitroseDeliver! I'll pick you some up when our Waitrose arrives, if you like?

[Keef]

Generally I'm liking the big up for Sydenham.

BUT!

We've had possibly the best gastropub within a 5mile radius open up to rave reviews

Please don't tell me you're talking about The Dolphin? It's not even as good as it's sister pub The Dartmouth Arms. Very disappointing food. (and the Sydenham forum would prove that I'm not alone in thinking that).

[woofmarkthedog]

SalubriousSyddersin Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

* to the tune of "look into my eyes " *

" Erm, Waitrosssssse do actually ssssstock Pickled Onion

Monssssster Munch. I know as it'ss ssssomething of an

occasssssssssional guilty pleas-ssssure. They'll even deliver

it via WaitrosssssseDeliver!"

http://images2.disneysites.com/clipart/images41/Movies/Robin_Hood/Sir_Hiss/sir-hiss01.gif "I'll pick you sssssome up when....

SSssssss..our Waitrosssssse arrivesssss, if you like?

( now looook into my eyessss..ssss )

Kinda creepy eh..?

W**F

[Brendan]

The one in Oxted doesn?t/. Or I just couldn?t find it.

[SalubriousSyddersin]

I do Keef.

I rate T.D.A. but would suggest it's a decent restaurant with a pub tabbed on (most tables are for dining only) and The Dolphin is mostly a pub that serves decent food. And it does serve very decent food. I've been going regularly since it opened (about twice a week) and have yet to have a poor meal. Perhaps I've just been lucky but looking at the overwhelmingly favourable reviews on STF I don't think I'm alone.

Where most of the negative press appears to be is regarding service at the bar (or lack therof when it's busy) and with the Sunday Lunches. I'd be interested to know if the people who don't like their visits suffer from this lack of bar-presence elsewhere and what their frame of reference is re: the food. For example I think the roasts/food at the Dog in Dulwich Village are truly horrid but I know of many who rave about them. It's all relative.

Anyway, it's rammed when you'd expect it be rammed (to be fair we don't have a great deal of choice) and given that it holds so many but gets so little negative press tells you they're doing more right than wrong? Where I think they need to be careful is with the non-core stuff. When the music festival/arts festival is on you sometimes cannot get in as the place is packed out for some (ticket only) concert or other.

If you want to talk about a truly awful pub with phenomenally poor food in Sydders then take a wander to The Dulwich Wood House in/on Sydenham Hill. At least the rest of the terrible pubs we have (The Dolphin is our only gastropub) aren't pretending to be something they're not.

[SalubriousSyddersin]

woofmarkthedog Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> SalubriousSyddersin Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> * to the tune of "look into my eyes " *

>

>

> " Erm, Waitrosssssse do actually ssssstock Pickled

> Onion

> Monssssster Munch. I know as it'ss ssssomething

> of an

> occasssssssssional guilty pleas-ssssure. They'll

> even deliver

> it via WaitrosssssseDeliver!"

>

>

>

> http://images2.disneysites.com/clipart/images41/Mo

> vies/Robin_Hood/Sir_Hiss/sir-hiss01.gif "I'll pick

> you sssssome up when....

> SSssssss..our Waitrosssssse arrivesssss, if you

> like?

>

> ( now looook into my eyessss..ssss )

>

>

>

> Kinda creepy eh..?

>

>

>

> W**F

A lisp can be a terrible social affliction. You have my sympathies BBW.

[Brendan]

Surely that's because it's brewery owned and run (the wood house that is) So the food comes pre made in a van.

This is pure speculation on my part but it just looks like that's the case. Especially since it got the latest Youngs treatment.

[SalubriousSyddersin]

Think you're probably about right there Brendan. Though seemingly they've got a new chef so there must be some skill into getting the food out; not that you could tell if you ever had the mis-fortune to eat there.

It used to be a real beauty. Darts in the snug (now a private dining area!!??) etc. I'm all for poncification if the food merits the price tag. And it doesn't even begin to at DWH. A real shame.

[Keef]

Well I disagree about the food inThe Dolphin, but agree about the Wood House, and The Dog.

Best roast I had in Sydenham, was the Woodman (R.I.P.)

[Brendan]

Youngs have refurbed most of their pubs in similar fashion over the last few years. I don?t have a problem with new chairs and some paint ect. and their beer is very good but the food is always the same overpriced blandness. A couple of tasteless sausages and some dry mash without enough gravy which you could get in a caf for ?3 but sold in the pub with a gratis 30 minute wait for over a tenner.

Just be grateful you don?t live in SW London where you have to go out of your way to not end up in a Youngs pub.

[SalubriousSyddersin]

That's what I mean about it all being relative Keef. I went into the Woodman twice for the roasts and thought my Mother could do better. And she's a terrible cook.

As for the place what do you think will happen to it? I hear it's again reopening? It needs to put a marker in the sand. IF it wants the trade from, say, Halifax Street/Longton Avenue and the similar ones off Kirkdale or Dartmouth Hill then it needs to make it clear that that's their target market and 'gastro up' or whatever the term is. If they want those from *ahem* other streets then pitch if for the Monday night Sky-Sports drinkers who like a good session. It's always fallen between both stools, to me.

Anyway, way off-topic so apologies to the OP.

[SalubriousSyddersin]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Youngs have refurbed most of their pubs in similar

> fashion over the last few years. I don?t have a

> problem with new chairs and some paint ect. and

> their beer is very good but the food is always the

> same overpriced blandness. A couple of tasteless

> sausages and some dry mash without enough gravy

> which you could get in a caf for ?3 but sold in

> the pub with a gratis 30 minute wait for over a

> tenner.

>

> Just be grateful you don?t live in SW London where

> you have to go out of your way to not end up in a

> Youngs pub.

I actually laughed out loud when they brought 5 chips in a ramekin to me for the princely sum of roughly 3 golden nuggets. Daylight effing robbery. The disdain they meted out (or tried to) when I told them I'd not be paying convinced me I was a mug for giving it so many chances these past couple of years!

[Keef]

Don't apologise to The OP, she won't mind.

The last incarnation had a good Polish cook, who IMO did a lovely tasty roast, but couldn't do deserts to save her life.

You may be right, it doesn't know quite what it wants to be. I worry though, that it just wouldn't get enough trade whichever route it chose.

Personally, I quite like somewhere in the middle. I want somewhere I can watch the footy,without feeling like I might get beaten up. But I don't really enjoy the whole gastro thing, I just like a Sunday roast when I can't be bothered cooking,or going to my mum's in Dulwich.

[giggirl]

It's just a frigging shop! Who cares. So Sydenham has a Waitrose. Good for them. I'm so pleased. I like Sydenham; I have lots of friends there.

So if SS is right and the only way ED can get a Waitrose is to get a more upwardly mobile demographic (or words to that effect) then I'd prefer not to have one because I don't want a more upwardly mobile demographic. But what bothers me most about this whole thread is that people really seem to be bothered about it. I don't understand. Personally I use Ocado and I'm very happy.

Brendan - if you want to send me your address I'll ship you a Monster Munch care package because I don't like to think of you as being unhappy and going without in Surrey. I wouldn't sleep nights.

[SalubriousSyddersin]

You're probably right gigirl. Re-reading my initial post I might have denigrated ED. That wasn't my intention so apologies to anyone who will take offence. I was more hoping to explain that Sydders is not as many would believe. Location, Location, Location had a bit on us a few years back and based solely on the High St these 2 guys ran for the hills [literally as they preferred Upper Norwood with it's 'Westow Triangle']...and I wouldn't blame them. Get off the High St and most are really surprised that it's not Hackney/Tottenham etc - as you might be forgiven for thinking on first inspection!

I've no idea what the % mix is for ED. I was mainly going on the MD of Waitrose's comments. The problem with census info is it's fairly out of date. It's done once a decade and the next one is, well, next year. IF - and looking at the changes in ED this past decade I see no reason to think you wouldn't - there are enough ABC1s then you've got a good chance. There are other demographic indicators that retailers can apply but Govt. figures tend to be their first port of call.