Travellers on Peckham Rye? (Lounged)

[Toosmart1973]

Phlox Wrote:

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> Here is a picture, sorry it's wonky, don't know

> how to do screengrab. Cringe indeed.

Better still, link to the offending tweet here https://twitter.com/ayres_the_baker/status/788394659097767937

[Phlox]

Thanks. Bet he deletes it. Someone do a screen grab. I don't have a PC.

[DovertheRoad]

Could this be Louisas favourite bakery for the "man on the street" ?!

[pop9770]

I need education

Gypo is short for Gypsy

Pikey from the word turnpike is apparently the insulting name

Frog is short for French viewed as an insult by some

Has every alternative name for a group country or race now considered as an insult?

What's going on?

[Jeremy]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> Has every alternative name for a group country or

> race now considered as an insult?

The obvious answer is that it depends whether the common usage is derogatory or not.

Aussie, Kiwi, Limey, etc - OK.

The first two you mention - almost always used as an insult and clearly not OK.

Frog - somewhere in between. You'd need to judge your audience. OK if you know it will be taken in jest.

[BrandNewGuy]

A derogatory term reinforces attitudes which can be materially to the detriment of that group. Using the 'N' word, for instance, reinforces a socially superior attitude towards black people and tacitly condones prejudice which can materiually affect people's life chances in terms of jobs, housing, encounters with the police etc. Calling a Frenchman a 'frog' does none of those things. The former is unacceptable, while the latter is just being impertinent :-)

It needn't be the case that the term is racial or national ? an upper middle class government minister calling a copper a 'pleb' is unacceptable, while a copper calling a minister a 'toff' is not.

[HelBel65]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> alt + print screen to grab the current window on

> PC.

It's windows logo + print screen on my Dell laptop...

[binkylilyput]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> I need education

> Gypo is short for Gypsy

> Pikey from the word turnpike is apparently the

> insulting name

> Frog is short for French viewed as an insult by

> some

>

>

> Has every alternative name for a group country or

> race now considered as an insult?

>

>

>

> What's going on?

Are you for real?

[Penguin68]

'Gypsy' - out of interest, is derived from Egyptian, which was believed to be the country of origin of the Roma - now actually believed to be from around the Northern Indus valley, I understand. 'Gyppo' is also a slang word thus for Egyptian, and was used thus by troops in North Africa e.g. during WWII, and indeed Suez. Its usage is not considered appropriate for either group. 'Acceptable' language of course does change. When I was young, referring to someone from the Caribbean, or an African or African American as 'black' was considered offensive. 'Coloured' was the preferred genteel (now PC) term - this has now been entirely stood on its head.

[Sue]

HelBel65 Wrote:

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> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > alt + print screen to grab the current window

> on

> > PC.

>

> It's windows logo + print screen on my Dell

> laptop...

It's just print screen on my Dell laptop!

[pop9770]

binkylilyput Wrote:

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>

> Are you for real?

I don't know are you trying to insult me by questioning my reality and calling me "for real" is that an insult are you pigeonholing me as a not a real person meaning I'm somehow weird odd? I guess that might be considered a type of racial or intellectual insult a supremacist insult ? because I think calling Gypsy a Gyppo is no worst than calling a French person a Frog ?

real really ?

I honestly don't get it for some people some names are an insult for others that's just the shortened version of their real name and as Penguin68 has explained even that real name has evolved from another source ...

For the Baker who tweeted Gyppo I really don't think that's an insult I think that's just what millions of people call them travelers just as many people call French people Frogs who would shout RACIST to someone calling a Frenchman a Frog?

The lines appear to be very grey some appear to scream RACIST because it makes them feel superior or intellectually elitist they are the PC police and use every opportunity to show how ?caring? they are and how bigoted other ?are?..

Yes I do need education on where the grey lines are drawn is there a standard definition a rule book which defines what is appropriate and what is not?

Or is it just about who shouts RACIST loudest?

I am genuinely confused angry and frustrated because it simply isn?t clear and it appears to be diverting every conversation and argument,,, from brexit (scream racist to those who wanted out) to the traveller community and migrants who are not in need and are confused with real refugees.

Is it just double standards it?s acceptable to call some by a shortened version of their name but not others ..

Is there a .gov site explaining what is and is not acceptable ?

After all if the language needs policing because it is breaking the law to be racist (and it appears many on here are happy to be the racist police in the belief someone has made racial comments which are I believe illegal?) then there should be a clear explanation of which words are acceptable and which are not if they should or should not be used with a clear understanding of the uses explaining context and clarify the legal position on their use!

Not a silly question or is it?

[BrandNewGuy]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> Yes I do need education on where the grey lines

> are drawn is there a standard definition a rule

> book which defines what is appropriate and what is

> not?

Was my previous attempt helpful?

<

It needn't be the case that the term is racial or national ? an upper middle class government minister calling a copper a 'pleb' is unacceptable, while a copper calling a minister a 'toff' is not.<<

[Sue]

"Is he/she for real?" informal

​

Used when you think someone is silly or very surprising

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/is-he-she-for-real

A quite appropriate question in this case, I'd have thought.

I can't believe you seriously think - in 2016 - that it's acceptable to use the terms you mention.

[pop9770]

Thanks

Using your explanation.

I'd say calling a French person a Frog is equally racist because it also a derogatory term

no different calling a Gypsy a Gyppo or Pikey

Why is it ok for a black person to use the n word ?

The laws make little sense and the guidelines are decided by those who shout loudest not based on any rules and that is where the problems are.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/racist_and_religious_crime/#a09

Same with religion clarity is required being anti all religion some call that being religist is technically a crime.

I say we need the government to make a list of what is and is not legal and that it should be made public. I can't find one if anyone can please point me towards it. NOT towards any non government non legal web site which would call every name based on their own "principles" racist.

[Sue]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> Thanks

> Using your explanation.

> I'd say calling a French person a Frog is equally

> racist because it also a derogatory term

> no different calling a Gypsy a Gyppo or Pikey

>

>

> Why is it ok for a black person to use the n word

> ?

>

> The laws make little sense and the guidelines are

> decided by those who shout loudest not based on

> any rules and that is where the problems are.

>

> http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/racist_and_reli

> gious_crime/#a09

>

> Same with religion clarity is required being anti

> all religion some call that being religist is

> technically a crime.

>

> I say we need the government to make a list of

> what is and is not legal and that it should be

> made public. I can't find one if anyone can please

> point me towards it. NOT towards any non

> government non legal web site which would call

> every name based on their own "principles" racist.

A little googling will bring up lists of unacceptable terms, with reasons, I'm sure.

I don't know why you are posting on this thread about something which has nothing to do with the travellers on Peckham Rye.

At root, this is nothing to do with legality or otherwise. It's about common human decency and sensitivity, of which judging by your posts on this thread you have little.

"those who shout loudest"? Oh FFS.

[DovertheRoad]

Nice trolling from Pop9770.

Said bake is entitled to their views,however un-PC, its a free country. But it's hardly going to win business on "liberal" Lordship Lane. Move the biz to Clacton-on-Sea perhaps?

[Phlox]

The term Frog for a French person has been used for centuries due to their fondness for eating Frog legs. A similar term used by the French for Brits is les Rosbifs.

[Penguin68]

A similar term used by the French for Brits is les Rosbifs. - And also 'Lobsters' because of the red coats worn by the British army.

[pop9770]

Sue Wrote:

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> At root, this is nothing to do with legality or

> otherwise. It's about common human decency and

> sensitivity, of which judging by your posts on

> this thread you have little.

>

> "those who shout loudest"? Oh FFS.

You're a bigot of a different type if I told you I am French and find being called a Frog is offensive and racist where are you NOW ?

FFS !

My point has everything to do with what is racist I am also questioning why anyone would support anyone who breaks the law by excusing them for being a particular race.

Travelers they break the law.

We either use the same rules for all or we pick and chose what works for each of us and we stop being bigots by telling others they are racists for using a non illegal term.

This is a real problem for British people they don't appear to understand with any clarity what is what.

Edit to add

Common decency is clear in my mind but it appear not in others.

I clearly want to know has the baker broken the law by using the word Gyppo because you appear to believe he has?

AND

If he has then calling me a Frog should also be against the law!

You appear to have double standards and that makes you void of common decency.

With regard the travelers on Peckham Rye if they are breaking the law then it is clear what should be done.

You and others are not clear with the law and not clear with what you believe!

[pop9770]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

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> Nice trolling from Pop9770.

>

> Said bake is entitled to their views,however

> un-PC, its a free country. But it's hardly going

> to win business on "liberal" Lordship Lane. Move

> the biz to Clacton-on-Sea perhaps?

This is my point entirely is he or is he not entitled to his views or is he braking the law ???

Because he can't be doing both or can he ?

Liberal works both ways liberty to do anything which is not illegal has the baker done something illegal or is he being victimized because his views don't fit in with the views of others who believe wrongly themselves to be liberal ?

Edit to add

Go Look up the term troll because together with racist it's a term many don't appear to fully understand!

[TheArtfulDogger]

Oh dear

Pop / Fazer being s troll has made me laugh

Especially when I saw this

 

[Penguin68]

Pop9770/ Fazer wrote

Travelers they break the law.

NO - some may, as may individuals drawn from almost any sort of grouping you put together, but their nature as travellers is not, in any way, illegal. I know this is trolling, and, frankly, unpleasant, but you should not think that assertions of this displeasing nature will go unnoticed.

As far as 'illegal' language is concerned, context can be key, but I would advise you that 'hate crimes' are determined by the responses of those to whom they may be seen to be directed. If a Roma wishes to make the case that the use of the word Gyppo in the context that it is being used is a hate crime, then the police would have to take notice of that.

[BrandNewGuy]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> Thanks

> Using your explanation.

> I'd say calling a French person a Frog is equally

> racist because it also a derogatory term

> no different calling a Gypsy a Gyppo or Pikey

You either didn't read my comment or didn't understand it ? possibly deliberately.

[Penguin68]

Whilst I would not normally recommend Wikipedia as an authoritative source, these two articles are well referenced and may help those confused or dismissive about traveller populations to gain a better understanding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers

[pop9770]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Pop9770/ Fazer wrote

>

> Travelers they break the law.

>

> NO - some may, as may individuals drawn from

> almost any sort of grouping you put together, but

> their nature as travellers is not, in any way,

> illegal. I know this is trolling, and, frankly,

> unpleasant, but you should not think that

> assertions of this displeasing nature will go

> unnoticed.

>

> As far as 'illegal' language is concerned, context

> can be key, but I would advise you that 'hate

> crimes' are determined by the responses of those

> to whom they may be seen to be directed. If a Roma

> wishes to make the case that the use of the word

> Gyppo in the context that it is being used is a

> hate crime, then the police would have to take

> notice of that.

I meant to say

Travelers if they break the law

I just find it odd that anyone would support anyone who breaks the law

IMO your context argument in nonsense using Frog N or Gyppo in any context other than a statement of their legality should be clearly defined as illegal that would make their use clear.

trolling is clearly defined you'll see by all definitions above TheArtfulDogger has made a trolling post

double standards for me one low standard and for him no standards

same with those who believe themselves to be decent often they have double standards

I have been clear about what it is I don't understand and why no intent to divert the conversation just looking to understand what is legal and what is not.

you have confirmed my suspicions that the baker hasn't done anything wrong

so screen capturing his use of the word Gyppo will do what ? can you explain because we all deserve to know