Travellers on Peckham Rye? (Lounged)

[Calsug]

Are all the people who are being pro traveller and saying they are not all bad people actually seen the disgusting mess that the 3 caravans on Peckham Rye have caused?

This mess isn't domestic waste which maybe at a push I could understand them making, it is building waste which they are dumping on our Park which your family won't be able to use freely until us the tax payer has paid for it to be removed

I'm sorry I will show no compassion towards them until they respect the neighbourhood that they live in

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

I suspect the people who are "pro-traveller" don't like the idea of an entire class/group of people being tarred with the same brush. Kinda like saying all South Londoners are bigoted curtain-twitchers.

[Calsug]

Well I'm going from 3 experiences that I've had with travellers setting up camp, on all 3 occasions they left a complete mess after they were moved on. Call me a curtain twitcher if you like but why should this been deemed acceptable behaviour?

Regardless of whether they were nice or not, I have never heard of travellers moving on without leaving piles or rubbish, building materials etc... Maybe this is why people understandably don't want them living near them. If I knew that when the travellers on Peckham Rye moved away you wouldn't have known they were there I wouldn't care as much and that is the honest truth.

Anyway glad to see all of those who don't mind travellers have volunteered to clear the rubble sacks in a few weeks...

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

You're missing my point Calsug.

I've met over a couple of dozen South Londoners who are curtain-twitchy bigots. Whilst my experiences may very well be valid, if I try to suggest ALL South Londoners are curtin-twitchy bigots, some people may quite rightly object to my "logic".

South Londoners themselves may very well point out that it would be extremely arrogant of me to assume that my personal experience meant I was then able to understand the characteristics of every single South Londoner. Non-South Londoners who aren't that fond of sweeping generalisations about an entire group of people might suggest that whilst I am entitled to object to a particular type of behaviour, conflating that behaviour and a class of people is as objectionable as someone who suggests that black people are by nature criminal, that working class people tend to be stupid and that old people are all selfish.

Anyway, I'd be very glad to see all people who don't mind South Londoners agreeing to remedy the behaviour of the curtain-twitchy bigots that I have met, because clearly the fact they think my views* are wrong means they should be responsible for undoing the damage that curtain-twitchy bigots wreak.

*Clearly, these are not my views as I am a South Londoner - I am trying to illustrate a point.

[Pierre]

There was a bit of an incident yesterday (Friday) afternoon. By the looks of it, about 30-40 girls from Harris were throwing conkers and food at the travellers' caravans and there was a lot of shouting and screaming. I don't know who started it, I wasn't there, but I walked past just after several teachers came out from the school and told the kids to go away.

I wandered over and spoke to one of the traveller guys just afterwards. They'd locked their children in one of the Transit vans, to keep them safe presumably, and they were pretty shaken up. Regardless of what anyone thinks about them or their lifestyle, they're people and they love their children. I'd be scared of a horde of teenage Peckham girls screaming and throwing stuff! We chatted for a few minutes and I asked "how long do you think you'll stay here?" He answered "dunno, as long as we can, I suppose."

I don't think the Rye is a good place for them to stay, but of course I didn't feel like I could tell him that. What has pissed me off since then is the massive pile of builders' waste that's appeared on the edge of the nature reserve meadow area, and seeing their vans driving straight across the middle of that as well as all the other tracks they're leaving across the grass - and it looks like a fourth caravan arrived this afternoon and the boxes and piles of rubbish are mounting up.

The court summons sheets have been zip-tied to various lamp posts around the area, it's due on 12th October apparently.

[Sue]

P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

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> I suspect the people who are "pro-traveller" don't

> like the idea of an entire class/group of people

> being tarred with the same brush. Kinda like

> saying all South Londoners are bigoted

> curtain-twitchers.

Yes.

[Blah Blah]

I think there's two issues here. There's tarring all travellers and there's what is happening here in relation to these specific travellers. Fly tipping, is not unique to travellers, but it is happening with these ones and that is a problem. It's illegal, and it's quite clear who the culprits are. It's quite upsetting to see the park now being used as a dump too, and I'm told two more vans have turned up there this morning.

I don't know what the procedure is for evicting them from the park, and I'm guessing the terms are different for public vs private land, but surely some action can be taken immediately in regards to the fly tipping? Do the police not have powers there?

[Charles Notice]

I am sure if they checked the vehicles for mot, road tax and insurance they would have lots of powers.

[Penguin68]

I think there's two issues here.

I think there's a third issue as well - if these people were attacked by a group of school kids - including throwing stuff which is hardly lessening the litter problem - then this is unacceptable. Someone must have suggested to the kids, perhaps other kids, that these were 'deserving' victims. It sits with other attacks on the strange or foreign (people not like us) which are at least being reported now more frequently following the Brexit vote, and may even be happening more frequently. Whatever we think of the anti-social fly tipping actions of (some) travellers this behaviour must be seen as wrong. I hope the children, and their parents, feel some shame (although I suspect they won't). If they don't, then I certainly feel ashamed that these children come from the community in which I live.

[*Bob*]

Which came first, centuries of ongoing general fear and hostility towards the travelling community - or certain elements of that travelling community stopping caring about what condition they leave areas the areas they pass through in - and what other people think of them?

Either way, a few piles of highly visible dumped shite in the local park are likely to do little for improving relations, busting stereotypes and will only serve to propagate the commonly-held opinion that ?that?s what they do?.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Fully agree that children behaving in such a way is completely unacceptable. If that was directed at any other minority group it would be reported widely as racist.

The fact that it is school children is worse. I hope the school takes it as seriously as they should.

If my daughter was involved I would be mortified.

[alice]

storm in tea cup prob over in minute

[thombe]

Went past that part of the park this morning.. all gone, just the anticipated residue remaining.

[Jeremy]

> storm in tea cup prob over in minute

That's kind of what I think too... pretty much wherever you are in the country, travellers are just an occasional part of life. They pitch up, everyone gets all upset, and before you know it they've moved on (the clue's in the name).

But always sad to see the prejudices confirmed.

[binkylilyput]

Children learn how to behave from somewhere......

[Sue]

Jeremy Wrote:

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>

> But always sad to see the prejudices confirmed.

Prejudices are always confirmed.

Because if a group of Travellers had left no litter, nobody would be posting about it on here.

We only hear about the "bad" things.

[Nunsuch]

I was directed to this thread from Twitter where it has been referred to has 'small minded' and ''ridiculous' so well done everyone! Firstly, I have had direct experience with the traveler community, both professionally and personally and whilst many of the negative accusations may be, on occasion, true I would also say that they could be applied to many sections of the community at some time or another. Things are stolen, crimes are committed, rubbish is dumped, arguments break out whether there is a traveler presence in a community or not. But oh, aren't they an easy and convenient target when they do appear? On that note the traveler community have, on occasion, been taken advantage of by local (disreputable) builders and fly tippers who dump their rubbish next to traveler camps knowing that the blame with be placed firmly at their door without question, as demonstrated so beautifully by many here. And I have seen the worst tyre tracks left after the circus pitches up in the park, but hey, it's the circus, how lovely! (and the park recovers)

Lastly re read some of these posts and substitute the term 'Syrian refugees' for 'travelers'....

it IS racist...don't dress it up as community concern.

[Jeremy]

Nunsuch Wrote:

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> I was directed to this thread from Twitter where

> it has been referred to has 'small minded' and

> ''ridiculous'

I think if you read the thread properly, the majority of people are fairly reasonable and open-minded. Then two or three posters who have already made their minds up and are openly prejudiced. Which is a shame, but unfortunately probably a fair cross section of how people feel.

[Nunsuch]

Oh I did read the whole thread....several times....I was just wondering who would realise how easy it might be for someone to jump to conclusions about a whole group of people based on the behaviour of a few and the unrelated view of an outside observer......

[rendelharris]

Nunsuch Wrote:

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Lastly re read some of these posts and substitute

> the term 'Syrian refugees' for 'travelers'....

Fairly sure certain people on here would have the same views on Syrian refugees moving into the neighbourhood, though they wouldn't express them publicly as like all bullies they only like to hit easy targets.

[Sue]

Great post, Nunsuch (the first one). I

[Calsug]

Agreed a good post nunsuch and to be honest I hadn't thought about people using travellers as an excuse to fly tip near them. Alas my experience has not been great in the past and I won't go into details but that said I can accept when what I said is wrong and I will be more cautious in my judgment in the future.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Are you confirming so we had ED residents entering the School site and fly tipping their rubbish? and the same on Peckham Rye?

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

Posts like Calsug's last one remind me why this is a great forum. It's a pity we don't all show as much grace.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

No Jules - the comment was that this has happened in the past because unscrupulous people have taken advantage of general prejudice.