Late night licensing on Lordship Lane

[*Bob*]

Can we have Inside72 back as well please?

(with an extra toilet)

Indeed, good post and fair enough. I'd hate it too. Then I'd move - and sell the house to someone who considers a close proximity of late bars to be an absolute boon. That way they can slash up their own wall on the way home.

[KalamityKel]

anonymous_third_part Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> if you don't like living just off lordship lane

> because of bars that are open till 1am - then move

> away.

>

> I chose not to live just off lordship lane as

> wherever there are bars and shops there is higher

> crime - there are loads of houses that you can

> move to. I don't see why the majority of people

> should be stopped from drinking.

>

> pathetic nimbyism

What a ridiculous and completely pointless comment!

Easy to do if you are considering moving to the area but not if you've been a resident off of one of the side roads in question for more years than many of the businesses currently on the strip have existed.

What "majority" of people are you talking about that have the need to continue drinking to the hours suggested? This thread is not about stopping drinking but the issue of Adventure Bar's application to extend their current license hours.

Is there really such a great demand (in addition to other neighbouring bars open to the early hours) to justify their request?

[*Bob*]

KalamityKel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

is there really such a great demand (in addition

> to other neighbouring bars open to the early

> hours) to justify their request?

If you build it, they will come.

Unfortunately.

[Hartvl]

I must admit to being taking abit a back when I walked into the women's toilets last Friday night and two girls were snorting a white substance up their nose from the sink area in plain view!

[pk]

madger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I just feel that 2am on a sunday night is

> too late for a bar like the Adventure Bar to stay

> open.

>

> 2.30am ...will be actual chucking out time on

> sundays if this license goes throug>

i think that your posts are obviously considered, but i do think that i should point out that the application is for 12/12.30 on Sunday not 2/2.30

[sambobia]

TonyQuinn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Madger, I suspect the battle has already been

> lost....unfortunately Dulwich is no longer the

> Dulwich we fell in love with way back. It has

> become, and this is a fact, Clapham. When the

> Clapham hordes, and their friends at Foxton's

> turned up, then this is the logical conclusion.

Please God no!

Madger -- entirely agree. Great posts.

I wonder else can be done, beyond opposing the extension? Can the offending bars -- and only two are mentioned above -- have their existing late licences revoked? What would have to be done to bring this about?

[KalamityKel]

You'd have to build a strong case up with the police and the council

[tallulah71]

TonyQuinn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Madger, I suspect the battle has already been

> lost....unfortunately Dulwich is no longer the

> Dulwich we fell in love with way back. It has

> become, and this is a fact, Clapham. When the

> Clapham hordes, and their friends at Foxton's

> turned up, then this is the logical conclusion. I

> will write to the council, they do have a habit of

> actually acting on people's concerns strangely

> enough. But, it would prove only to be a

> short-term fix. Dulwich has irrevocably changed.

****************************************************

Exactly.

[DJKillaQueen]

KalamityKel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You'd have to build a strong case up with the

> police and the council

If people are taking illegal drugs on the premises (as has been alluded to) and you can prove it then that would be grounds for revoking the license....just an idea. The onus is on the premises to do all they can to prevent illegal drug use.

[Easties EL]

Top of East Dulwich Grove off Lordship lane, the poor house near the front. three gentlemen going for a piss on their door step. Charming. Sadly ED is turned into a shit ole after hours

[KalamityKel]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KalamityKel Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > You'd have to build a strong case up with the

> > police and the council

>

> If people are taking illegal drugs on the premises

> (as has been alluded to) and you can prove it then

> that would be grounds for revoking the

> license....just an idea. The onus is on the

> premises to do all they can to prevent illegal

> drug use.

I hope you're not suggesting a plant! Obviously I'm reading that wrong (hopefully)

Annyhow, that would not be your case (objection) but the case for the police... plus if it was proven by means of a raid, for example, then the place could be shut down immediately

[colonelchips]

I completely respect someone opposing the late license - but this does feel a little bit like reading the Daily Mail. I've been out on Lordship Lane a few times on a Friday and Saturday evening and think it is a top place to go out and many of these posts are completely exaggerating the situation.

No one should have to put with people urinating on their wall, but there also seems to be a lot of snobbery about 'the youth' and the wrong type of people going out.

One of the delights of going out on Lordship Lane is that the places with late licenses are not horrid clubs like you would get elsewhere in London, they are bars and pubs where you can go in and sit down and continue your evening without having to queue to buy six pound a bottle.

If we're going to debate these sort of things I think it is worth getting a bit of balance and I for one don't think it is anywhere near as bad as people are making out and harking back to imagined golden ages in the past is often cobblers.

[genwilliams]

I have to agree with georgia, and I would also like to defend Adventure, as the place has brought me a lot of joy over the last year (and I've managed to enjoy it without puking or weeing in anyone's garden, throwing tins of lager about, punching anyone or stabbing anyone. Am I that unusual?)

Re: underage drinking, I don't know about Boho Bar because I almost never go in (it is a bit odd in there actually), but as a regular at Adventure I know they check ID a lot. I'm 28 and I still get regularly ID'd there. It's bloody annoying actually, but I respect them for doing it. I'm sure that teenagers do slip through the net sometimes, but as someone who used to work in bars (small independent places who took their licences and reputations v. seriously, as it happens), even with the best door team and most consistent ID checking in place, people do still slip through.

I don't doubt the reports on this thread of the unpleasant drunken behaviour people have had to deal with, but Adventure's clientele, mostly at least, seems to be regular folks who either go in for a few beers or cocktails, or a party crowd having a cheerfully drunk night out. While there are exceptions in any bar, if it was full of beery aggressive idiots who'd punch the first person who bumps into them, I would not go there, and I doubt my friends would either! I don't think 2am on a Sunday is necessary (though pk above said they only want 12/12.30 on Sun? Can anyone clarify which is correct?) but I have no problem with the Thursday application. As an ED resident (I live 5 mins from Adventure) I specifically like being able to have a local, safe and late night out toward the end of the week - the alternative is dealing with the serious aggression and idiocy that populates the nightbuses in central London after 11.

As far as comments like "Can the offending bars -- and only two are mentioned above -- have their existing late licences revoked?" go - I think that's pretty unfair and lacking perspective. Adventure is far from the worst offender - the Kebab and Wine seems a lot more dodgy in terms of the atmosphere & licensing, and it does have a reputation for being quite druggy. Adventure seems exceptionally professional in comparison!

georgia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it depends where you go on Lordship Lane!

> I don't think that all the bars between Goose

> Green and The Palmerston are full of under-age

> drinkers who behave anti-socially, even late at

> night. I can go out with my friends till 2am to

> the EDT or Bishop or Liquorish and have never seen

> any trouble on a Friday or Saturday and many of

> these bars have an over-21 policy anyway. There

> are plenty of people who enjoy a late-night drink

> at the weekend without resorting to fighting,

> vomitting in the street or whatever else people

> say they see on LL.

>

> And East Dulwich is not a village, it is a surburb

> of a large city. If people want a village

> atmosphere, move out of London. I personally

> choose to live in East Dulwich because it's busy,

> lively and has a number of good bars and

> restaurants. If I wanted quiet, peaceful and pubs

> that closed at 11pm I would move away.

[felt-tip]

I'm on the lash tonight down LL.

Can't wait.

[louisiana]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KalamityKel Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > You'd have to build a strong case up with the

> > police and the council

>

> If people are taking illegal drugs on the premises

> (as has been alluded to) and you can prove it then

> that would be grounds for revoking the

> license....just an idea. The onus is on the

> premises to do all they can to prevent illegal

> drug use.

Traces of coke in the ladies has been enough to close down at least one central London club recently.

[stereforth]

I am surprised Southwark Council hasn't already stepped in. Until last year I ran a pub in Nunhead. Friday and Saturday licencing hours were up to 1am. If any customers stood around outside after midnight they were forbidden (by law) from drinking and any conversation would attract complaints and a follow-up from Southwark with a stern warning of further action, if necessary.

Lordship Lane is a residential area. Complain to the Council. And keep complaining.

I enjoy a good drink, but I am also aware of how anti social behaviour can alienate your neighbours. I employed experienced door minders who would identify likely suspects and discreetly keep an eye on them, as much for that customer's benefit as mine. Groups of people outside would be politely asked to keep the noise down and quietly moved along after closing.

Try speaking to a local beat copper or police support officer. They were very helpful in clearing the druggies out when I took over.

By the way, as far as I know, urinating in public can be regarded as a sexual offense, bringing the sexual offenders register into the mix.

[DJKillaQueen]

I hope you're not suggesting a plant! Obviously I'm reading that wrong (hopefully)

No didn't mean that at all....lol.....but report it to the police if people are using illegal drugs on the premises. As stereforth says above, the police and council should act on those types of complaint.

I completely respect someone opposing the late license - but this does feel a little bit like reading the Daily Mail.

You are missing the point Chips...it's the Sunday and Thursday licence that the main poster is objecting to. And yes while there is some...I wouldn't say snobbery....but resistence to change.....there's nothing wrong with legitimate complaint about the behaviour of some people when drunk and in the early hours of the morning. It is generally worse accross the country's town centres than it was 30 years ago, and drugs are part of the problem. It is perfectly valid to say that and to then ask why and what can be done.

I've often popped down to LL late on Friday and Saturday nights to the 24 shop and yes it's noisy but more from chatter than anti-social behaviour. So it might be that the problems are more to do with closing time. City centres use Police to monitor late night revellers but obviously that won't happen in LL. Southwark council do however have an anti-social behaviour unit who could be used to monitor random evenings at closing time. It would be well worth referring complaints to them also.

[Earl Aelfheah]

My issue with 'Adventure bar' (jeez, I cringe just typing that name) and 'boho bar' (not much better), are not their late licences, but their sheer naffness.

[KB SE22]

Hi there,

I feel REALLY stongly about this issue. So much so that I have spoken to Southwark council about:

1) the issue at hand (late night licensing of Adventure Bar)

and

2) their extraordinarily poor website which is difficult to navigate to be able to make an objection

As a result I have started a new thread for those committed to objecting:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,506518

I appreciate discussion about the issue is important, as is action.

If you would like to raise an objection, simply email, write a letter to or fax the council. Attached is a template objection letter which you are welcome to edit and send (!).

Your objection must include:

Your name:

Your address:

And the objection, which must relate to one or more of these four licensing objectives:

1. The prevention of crime and disorder

2. Public safety

3. The prevention of nuisance

4. The protection of children from harm

Email: [email protected]

Write a letter to:

Licensing Department

The Chaplin Centre

Thurlow Street

London

SE17 2DG

Or send a fax to: 020 7525 5705

[peckhamasbestos]

sort of read this thread. Objectors, are you mad, where do you think you live. this place is blisfull, we're in the metropolis.

i suggest you all try a few nights in;

reading

leicester

doncaster

truro

coventry

wise up, a bit of piss on the street isn't the end of the world.

(i live just of LSL and don't know what you are on about)

pa!

[KalamityKel]

Why should we be comparing ourselves with troubled towns/cities as if we're "not that bad"? Is behaviour experienced in these areas something to aspire to?

Surely it would be better to work to avoid turning into areas such as those mentioned above then to embrace it willingly as an inevitable evolution?

I'm not against late licensing but I do think there should be more control on numbers and typess of place in one small area that hold them.

In other areas licenses are staggered easing the burden of people leaving bars/clubs etc and avoiding trouble from rival establishments (not that there's much of it here).

I still don't see the demand for the extension.

[felt-tip]

I went out on LSL on Saturday night for a bar crawl. First one since moving here 8 months ago and found the atmosphere a bit weird. Not aggro as such but just an undercurrent of something. Very different from the day-time. So went to Green and Blue and had a lovely bottle and then went home.

[PipW]

Of course people enjoy going out on a Friday or Saturday night - I do too when I can get a babysitter! - but like Madger am extremely anxious about the late hours being extended to a Thursday/Sunday.

PK - Adventure Bar are applying until 0230 on those nights, not 1230. There's a sign saying as much in their window.

I don't want to appear like an old fuddy duddy, but the noise at closing time is unecessary - and keeps the whole family awake - so I'm going to write to the council. Anybody that doesn't believe it's that bad should come to my house at 2.30am at weekends and see/hear for themselves!

[DJKillaQueen]

I notice that in the liscensing small print that any person over 14 year of age is allowed to be in the bar (not buying alcohol of course)...that seems like an open invitation to underage drinking to me. They are supposed to ask for ID if someone 'looks' to be underage. But all they need is for an adult to buy alcohol at the bar for them. That I think is something that can be taken up with the council....to restrict the hours that 14-18 year olds can be on the premises - after all should any 14 year old be in a bar at 2am in the morning?

According to the licence application the Sunday hours are til 12.30 (not 2.30) but the Thursday application is til 2.30 which I think local residents have a good case for opposing - given that LL is not a city centre. Also note that that the sale of alcohol is to stop a half hour before closing.

[Santerme]

peckhamasbestos Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> sort of read this thread. Objectors, are you mad,

> where do you think you live. this place is

> blisfull, we're in the metropolis.

>

> i suggest you all try a few nights in;

>

> reading

> leicester

> doncaster

> truro

> coventry

>

> wise up, a bit of piss on the street isn't the end

> of the world.

>

> (i live just of LSL and don't know what you are on

> about)

>

> pa!

Weymouth in the summer, and alas even Dorchester now we have two extended hours places to get ****faced until the early hours.

However, in Cerne Abbas, we are insulated from this and are all safely tucked up in bed by midnight.