Pregnant woman smoking down Lordship lane!

[giggirl]

prdarling Wrote:

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> "This woman and her friend were twice my size and

> looked quite Vicky Pollard-esque."

>

> She was probably rendered speechless because she

> wasn't even pregnant....

PRDarling - DO YOU MIND! PLEASE! I'm trying to look like I'm working and now I've spat coffee on my keyboard and I'm getting "a look".

[Lawrence]

How is calling someone selfish and saying they should be ashamed for smoking a cigarette not rude and childish?

Ligaturiosity- In response to your PM

I am afraid I do not feel you offered a debate here. You described your actions in as much detail as you saw fit and ask for thoughts. You got them, in as raw a form as you offered to the aspiring mum. I, personally have felt the need to be rude because it gives you a taste of your own medicine. You could have knocked this on the head ages ago but instead you are now determined to make yourself the victim. Also what you deem "nasty" is in reality gentle ribbing.

Despite the reaction here you still think your behaviour was acceptable and a good thing for others to take up. You also have no remorse about the fact that although you may walk a moral highground, your actions are likely to result in a negative outcome. You clarified that your husband thought your sentiments just but was concerned for your safety. At no point do you display any self doubt as to the actual merit of your actions. In all seriousness, there is a name for this behaviour.

I'm sure if the admin was referring specifically to me I would have received a PM, until such time I'm afraid I will be trolling ya back.

What is your opinion? Do you think there is merit in just saying what you think to anyone regardless of how they might feel? Judging from your reaction to me, I assume not.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

*snuggles up to Quids and Admin in fur coat, and passes round the fags*

[Keef]

I don't think a suggestion of trolling was nasty. You seemed to have stopped posting at the time, and I thought it seemed like a clasic case of

Light the touch paper

Fan the fire early on to get it going

Sit back and enoy the flames

Perhaps I was mistaken, and you're serious, in which case I apologise for suggesting it was trolling, but I don't apologise for any of my other posts, and don't think any of them were nasty, unpleasant, or personal.

The simple facts are

Smoking is not good for you.

Smoking when pregnant is not GOOD for the baby, but probably isn't really harmful either, unless you're smoking heavily.

What you choose to do is absolutely your choice, and you shouldn't be confronted in the street by a stranger.

[legalbeagle]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> *snuggles up to Quids and Admin in fur coat, and

> passes round the fags*

OOO-er. My granny, when passing moral judgement on the appearance of a woman, used to say "fur coat, no knickers"

!!

[giggirl]

HeidiHi Wrote:

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> And I think on here people should stop acting like

> a lynch mob and stop being extremely rude when

> someone says something that they do not agree

> with.It is possible to disagree with someone

> without restorting to playground name calling. I

> see it happening time and time again on this

> forum.

Sorry HH but I think it's a bit rich.

I'm not having a go about your comment yesterday because you have already explained that and I genuinely think you misunderstood what I wrote (or maybe I wasn't clear enough) - but your comment on my (miss-quoted) comment was to call it childish. See:

I like all the posts saying things like 'my mum smoked, I am alive' 'I would rather have a mother who smoked then a psycho' etc so childish.

Now how is that not "playground name calling"?

Like I said, sorry to have a go because you did already explain, it's just the name calling comment you made today that I find a bit rich.

Just to clarify (before anyone has a pop); I was born in the 60s and that was WAY before Joe Public knew about the hazards of smoking so pregnant woman who were smokers weren't advised to give up. My comment was simply that my mother smoked through her pregnancies and her children were born healthy. BUT IT IS NOT OK THAT SHE SMOKED. OK - DOES EVERYONE GET THAT I'M NOT SAYING IT'S OK THAT MY MOTHER SMOKED? IF ANYONE THINKS I'M SAYING THAT IT'S OK THAT MY MOTHER SMOKED THEN PLEASE PM ME AND I'LL KNOCK UP A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION WITH BULLET POINTS AND A PIE CHART AND THE WHOLE SCHABANG. SMOKING IS BAD. OK. Anyway, it was a throw-away post really and I wasn't making any specific scientific or medical point, I was just stating a fact - that pregnant women smoked in the 60s. I don't think I should have been called childish though.

For the record, and to muddy the waters even further, my mother was injected with morphine every day when she was carrying me. Probably went into my bloodstream. Was that OK? No it wasn't. But it was the 60s and it happened and I was a healthy baby.

HH - I do think stepping up to someone who was kicking a child was very brave though.

[giggirl]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> *snuggles up to Quids and Admin in fur coat, and

> passes round the fags*

Mine's a glass of Prosecco thanks Quids.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I'll have you know my bloomers are firmly intact.

[plimsoul]

pathetic all of you, on the naughty step now.

[legalbeagle]

> HH - I do think stepping up to someone who was

> kicking a child was very brave though.

Despite other differences of opinion with HH, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it was an incredibly brave thing to do, and a good thing. I hope it helped the child in some way.

[legalbeagle]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> I'll have you know my bloomers are firmly intact.

Well you would say that, but can we believe you?

Mind you, now I think about it, it could have been "Red hat, no knickers".......

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Giggirl, Apologies for offending you.

As for that poor little boy, I only hope he is ok.

[Alec John Moore]

I understand that the top part of Rye Lane is referred to by some as Little Lagos.

[annaj]

HeidiHi, cruelty to a child, such as you described, is wrong and should always be challenged. You were right to do so. But suggesting that someone would abuse a child, because they are Nigerian is racist and racism should also always be challenged. I have reported you post.

[Growlybear]

It always surprises me how thin skinned people are on this forum. I can only assume that the people who accuse other FMs of being nasty and rude have never posted on any other fora. I have been a member of a lot of different fora over the years, and have never seen any other forum where people are so restrained in how they post to other FMs on contentious topics such as this. I have also never come across a forum which is so heavily moderated. If people think some of the remarks on here are abusive or offensive, perhaps they should try joining a few other fora!

And as for the OP's original post, I think she should count herself very lucky that the pregnant woman was rendered speechless and didn't smack her in the mouth, which I think is what quite a few people might have done in that situation.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Where did I say all Nigerians beat their kids? What part of It might not be against the law to beat kids in your country but it is in the UK is confusing?!! I am letting him know that since he was beating his son in public and he was from abroad and not aware of our laws, that it is not acceptable to do that in THIS country as we have laws , and that the police would be involved, hence the police being called because it is against the law in this country. I mean, kicking his son on the floor in a hospital in front of a busy waiting room?! He obviously thought he could get away with it!

For goodness sake my dad is black!:-S

annaj Wrote:

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> HeidiHi, cruelty to a child, such as you

> described, is wrong and should always be

> challenged. You were right to do so. But

> suggesting that someone would abuse a child,

> because he is Nigerian is racist and racism should

> also always be challenged. I have reported you

> post.

[legalbeagle]

HeidiHi - I think no one is questioning the bravery of what you did, or the fact that you were completely and utterly in the right to do it. The problem is that your original post came across like this (and I'm exaggerating to make the point):

"He was beating his child and he was african. Africa has a bad human rights record so that's probably why he did it. I told him that everyone in Africa might approve of beating children, but it's not ok here"

I'm not saying that is what you wrote. I'm saying that is how it came across. It sounded like you thought all African's were the same, it was all one country, and they don't know how to treat their kids because their human rights record is so poor. If you had actually thought that, I would agree with Annaj that it was racist and offensive.

However you have made it clear in your subsequent posts that this is not what you meant or what you think, and I don't think you were being racist at all. I think that your original explanation of what happened was confusing and came across badly, but that happens sometimes when we write rather than speak face to face. I've certainly given the wrong impression several times, including on this thread!

I think you were very brave, and you were trying to explain to him that his behaviour was not acceptable to this society. And you were right. It isn't. So chin up and good for you. Whatever you lack in clarity of writing you more than make up for it guts for helping that child, and I for one applaud you. And I think that most other people do too.

[EDmummy]

Purely from a point of accuracy - where did HH say the father in question was African? Did I miss this? When I read it I thought of many countries where this type of behaviour is not question, only some of which are in Africa.

I will not comment on the original OP because I think she may have had enough of other people's views by now.

[Ann]

This is now going to sound slightly off-topic. The health service realises that pregnant women should be offered help with smoking. Many women smoke but it's doubtful many of those women are happy about the situation especially when they're pregnant.

My point is that there is an excellent 'smoking cessation clinic ' available at King's run by an extremely competent midwife whose desire is to help women stop or at least cut down on tobacco use. The service is non-judgemental and indeed respectful of women as an individual, not just 'a smoker'.

That doesn't mean that all women should access this service; but health professionals generally speaking understand that to say " Stop smoking." by itself , is unlikely to have much impact. But help should be offered.

I'm thinking of older people who have been life long smokers with all sorts of health problems who continue to smoke; there's millions of them out there.

There really is.

[legalbeagle]

EDmummy Wrote:

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> Purely from a point of accuracy - where did HH say

> the father in question was African?

Page 4, half way down.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Thanks Legalbeagle, you understand where I am coming from. I think it is ironic that Anna is presuming I am racist, who says I am a white person sitting behind the monitor? I could be black, I could be Nigerian. As I said, I am half black so hardly racist am I, think my dad would have something to say about that!?

But yes I was saying the UK as a society does not accept that behaviour.

[Ligaturiosity]

Growlybear "And as for the OP's original post, I think she should count herself very lucky that the pregnant woman was rendered speechless and didn't smack her in the mouth, which I think is what quite a few people might have done in that situation."

Good to see that you are advocating/suggesting physical violence as a way of dealing with things.

Can I reiterate that I UNDERSTAND that many on here are unhappy that I spoke out in the way I did. That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I only have a problem when the criticism has not been constructive. Personally I would say that my original criticism was constructive, but then I would say that wouldn't I?

Ditto the above post re. Heidi's points; she was brave and right to do what she did. She sounds like a very nice person, and I agree with a lot of her sentiments. It is a shame that there aren't more people like her around prepared to make sound moral judgements, even if they're not socially acceptable.

In short, I did something which some of you feel was socially unacceptable....but wasn't what the smoker doing socially and morally unacceptable. I continue to feel absolutely no remorse whatsoever for my actions! If you can constructively explain to me why I should then I will try and take it on board!

Pregnant Chav and pal strolling along puffing away.

I stop and look aghast. They stop and stare at me. Dirty looks ensue.

The words tumble out of my mouth to the effect of "I'm so shocked you're smoking while pregnant. Disgusting you shuld be ashamed".

Silence.

Both women twice my size - not only fat but definitely pregnant to boot - I normally wouldn't say anything but did. I didn't stab anyone. I didn't scream and shout abuse. There wasn't a scene in the street. The women didn't look upset/stunned/taken aback. It was as if they simply couldn't defend the indefensible.

I suppose I did open myself up to strong opinions and that's fine. I respect your right to hold a different opinion to mine.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

EDfamily, I did correct myself on page five though and said I should have said he was Nigerian.

[Growlybear]

Ligaturiosity Wrote:

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> Growlybear >

> Good to see that you are advocating/suggesting

> physical violence as a way of dealing with things.

I don't think you read my post properly. I did not say that I was advocating or suggesting physical violence as a way of dealing with things at all. I said that I thought you were fortunate that the woman you accosted did not react in this way, as many people would have done under such circumstances. Most people would not react with such restraint when berated in public for their lifestyle by a complete stranger.

>

>

[Ann]

Pregnant Chav and pal???

Define Chav?