Pregnant woman smoking down Lordship lane!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I don't think people step in enough and it is disappointing. I don't know if I posted it on this forum at the time but about a year or two ago I was in Kings College Pharmacy waiting for my presciption, and there was a little boy in there with his father, the little boy had wet himself, his father was so mad, he was calling him names and kicking the boy whilst the little boy was on the floor crying, now, the pharmacy was PACKED and NO ONE said a thing, they all pretended not to look, I was shaking from anger and stunned, I told him to stop kicking the boy and that in his country that might be acceptable but in this country it is not ( which was ironic as I was stating it is against the law to beat kids here but yet everyone in the waiting room was acting as if it was not against the law to beat your kids by not saying anything and speaking up against the little boy being kicked on the floor) he started on me back, calling me names and everything, told me it is nothing to do with me and to mind my own business, I was scared since he is a big man and I am a female but I could not let him do that. I called the security guards, who called the police, I gave my statement, I mean probably nothing happened to him, and he probably would never change and who knows, maybe the boy got it worse at home since the father was angry that he has embarrassed him, but I could not say anything and maybe just maybe my shock and vocal disagreement at his actions will make him think twice about doing something like that again.

Years ago people would be in other people's business, if someone did something wrong, the public would say so, kids got told off by people other than their parents. In this day and age, we just turn a blind eye to everything, so people get away with everything.

[Lawrence]

"nice to see that she cared enough about this baby who has nothing to do with her as she thought he was going to get cold and ill whilst his mother is nice and toasty"

No, thinking was what she did not do, nor did she care enough to wait and see if her concern was valid. She is a another gobshite busybody masquerading as a concerned citizen.

"The fact that the woman and her burly friend said nothing indicates that they knew the OP was right, because most people like myself re above would defend ourselves if we feel we are in the right."

Don't you get that all women in the UK know that smoking is not good for you, this is not about smoking being healthy or not but about rudeness, presumption and the fact that anyone with a couple of brain cells knows it is simply not constructive to humiliate friends let alone strangers.

I take it you would be comfortable reminding overweight families in supermarkets that not only do they not need those choc ices but they are selfish and disgusting for having them. Nice.

As Skye points out even our bondage curious OP is now keen to alter her story, silently knowing(as hubby did from the off)that really she has behaved quite badly. Hey, we all have bad days, I try not do dress mine up as saving the children.

[Keef]

HeidiHi, what you describe is absolutely disgusting, and good for you for saying something. I hope the guy has had the kid taken off him if that is how he behaves.

HOWEVER...

What you desribe, is a million miles from someone smoking a cheeky fag whilst up the duff.

[TillieTrotter]

What Keef said, not even a slight comparison.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

True Keef but just because we know it is all over the news about smoking being bad does not mean other people actually get how bad it is. Not everyone reads the newspapers, watch the news, not everyone gets how serious it can actually be and not everyone is educated.

It just makes me sad that the call for a fag is more important that a child's wellbeing. I have never been in a situation where I have come across someone smoking whilst pregnant. I have seen plenty of parents smoking over their kids/prams and I usually give them a look but then to do it in public, I feel they obviously don't care.

Lawrence, I was miffed at her but not offended, and as I had nothing to feel guilty about, my conscience was clear and I told her so. I suppose she has to say something so that her conscience was clear, maybe she thought I was a young( I look younger than what I am) silly uneducated mum who didn't know that taking a new baby out with no hat on in the freezing cold could make him ill, you would be surprised at how clueless some people are despite all the information we have at our hands.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

And Lawrence, yes, I usually go to supermarkets every day hiding in in the biscuits aisle so that when an overweight person picks up a packet of biscuits I jump out with a loudspeaker and shout " A second on the lips, a lifetime on the hips!" it is quite effective.

Pah! You have so got me wrong.:))

[chantelle]

Heidi - why on earth did you assume the child-beater's defense might be that it was acceptable in his country? what a strange thing to assume, and to say.

[Huggers]

Just another moment of East DUlwich bourgoise smugness where we float around in an organic fug morally leglislating to all around us ignorantly unaware of the many tiny ways we are screwing up our own children. Every sanctimonious swipe at others raises the chances of anorexia and mental illness in your own children. fact.(not really, I made that bit up)

Perhaps smokey lady had left a violent partner, given up heroin, taken all sorts of steps that radically protected her unborn child from previous circumstances in ways you cannot imagine. Perhaps she'd had some terrible news about her family or even about her baby.

I think you should take your health mission down Rye lane saturday and talk to some of the mothers in waiting outside macdonalds. I'm sure you'd get more than 'speechlessness' and a livelier debate would ensue.

[giggirl]

Huggers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> I think you should take your health mission down

> Rye lane saturday and talk to some of the mothers

> in waiting outside macdonalds. I'm sure you'd get

> more than 'speechlessness' and a livelier debate

> would ensue.

That's a fabulous idea Huggers. I, for one, have been parading up and down past the Co-Op all morning with a cushion up my jumper and a roll-up, waiting for a ruck. Nobody even glanced sideways at me. I think they've all been reading this thread.

I'm loving Keef's posts. Made me smile.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

He was an African man, so I was telling him that in his country it might be acceptable to beat children since their human rights is appalling, but in the UK it is against the law.

chantelle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Heidi - why on earth did you assume the

> child-beater's defense might be that it was

> acceptable in his country? what a strange thing to

> assume, and to say.

[Skye]

Go Huggers!!!

[Ligaturiosity]

Actually Lawrence, my husband doesn't think I behaved badly. Far from it. He believes I shouldn't have said anything as he thinks I could have put MYSELF at risk. And you call me rude....what an ironic comment in light of what you have had to say about me. I did not say what I did to that woman because I am a busy body, but because what she was doing was plain wrong. Of course it is wrong if she does it at home as well, but doing it publically when all the evidence shows how damaging it can be for a growing foetus is appalling. I said what I did because I feel it is totally selfish to smoke while pregnant, and to do it publically is suggesting you really don't give a sh@t about your unborn child. Because if you did, you wouldn't. You can lay into me as much as you like, I stand by what I did, but respect your opinion that you beg to differ. That's fine. I am not here expecting everyone to agree with me.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Ligaturiosity, be glad you are you as I am glad I am I, I think five years old riding on bikes to school without adult supervision is wrong, I think smoking whilst pregnant is wrong, don't have kids if you don't want to give them the best start in life and don't have kids if you cannot be bothered look after them. I would rather be in the minority with the way I think then in the majority with people thinking it is acceptable to do the above.

On an after note, what the hell has happened to Sean?! Is this the same guy who could not say say Hello to me on the bus, I cannot believe the change in his posts!?:-S

[Ligaturiosity]

Thank you Heidi. Unfortunately many people have had to PM me in support of what I said, as they are too afraid of getting shot down if they say anything on this forum. That is a real shame to be honest. I totally take on board those people who have said they don't think it was my place to say anything to the woman. I respect their right to opinionate. However, the vitriol and personal attacks on my character - (er, hello this is an internet forum, do you know me....? And yes many of you do and have asked me for my username when you've met me...haven't given it...I wonder why).

Can I just say that those of you who choose to say things like 'she might have been coming off heroin'. Oh please. And 'cheeky puff' eh 'Keef'? Well you smoke don't you so are hardly going to agree with me. Good for you.

[peckhamboy]

HeidiHi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> He was an African man, so I was telling him that

> in his country it might be acceptable to beat

> children since their human rights is appalling,

> but in the UK it is against the law.

>

Dear oh dear oh dear. Where do I start? This probably merits a whole new thread just to itself. Suffice to say, there is a casual assumption that the man in question does not consider the uk to be his country, there is a casual assumption that all African countries are the same (or even that Africa is a country), and there is a casual assumption that all African countries (or the mythical country of Africa) have appalling human rights records. And all that in a post by someone who appears to spend their time condemning the ignorance of others.

[legalbeagle]

HeidiHi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> He was an African man, so I was telling him that

> in his country it might be acceptable to beat

> children since their human rights is appalling,

> but in the UK it is against the law.

>

What this man did to his child is dreadful, that's a no-brainer. And good for you standing up for that poor little boy. It was a brave thing to do and I hope it helped in some way.

That said, I worry about your attitude to his origins. Africa is a continent, not a country. South Africans and Nigerians and Kenyans and Algerians are, for example, widely different people with very different cultures and human rights records and standards of treating children. Please don't assume just because someone is from the continent of Africa you can take a morally superior stance on what Africans consider to be the right way to treat children. I know a great many Africans who would incredibly insulted by the suggestion that child abuse is acceptable in the part of the continent that they live in.

He didn't beat his child because he's African. He beat his child because he is a gutless heartless f*cker who should not be left in charge of another human being.

[Administrator]

If this were a football match, and I were the referee, I would remind people to play the ball and not the player.

But it's not, it's a forum, so I'm asking people to debate the topic and not descend to name calling, I get complaints when that happens.

*Pulls up stool next to ???? and lights a pipe*

[legalbeagle]

Deleted after complaint that post was offensive.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Heidi, ?tis indeed the same Sean

The problem we have here is that Ligaturiosity is complaining a lot about ?the vitriol and personal attacks on my character?. She also talked earlier about being ?offended?

So clearly this is a person who cares about vitriol and attacks on character and offending people right?

Yet she is the one who, in her own language, has attacked the character of someone she doesn?t know, in public. And judging by her language on here, she is pretty vitriolic. And she has offended a lot of people

It really doesn?t matter if lots of cowardly people are PM?ing her to offer her support - she openly admits pre-judging a situation and acting in a manner which is beyond acceptable.

If vitriol, offense and character are her watchwords then, in this situation, she should have kept her views to herself. This woman was not beating her child, or leaving it exposed in the sun. It IS possible to have a cigarette without harming an unborn baby. But as I said earlier ? she could be on 50 a day and at this stage of the pregnancy it doesn?t make any difference ? it?s too late. She isn?t saving anyone, or changing anyone?s behaviour. And nor is she giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. Her admonishing a complete stranger is all about her ego

Again ? if this was a theoretical debate it would be one thing. (and remember ? pretty much EVERYONE is agreeing with her basic point about smoking and pregnancy) But the way she behaved just isn?t acceptable. As someone has said, where does she stop? Is she going to stand outside MaccyD?s and berate every parent who walks in or out with a clearly obese child?

[Lawrence]

The thread is about name calling, the OP kicked of with a story about telling a complete stranger she is disgusting and selfish, rendering her speechless. I think it warrants a little name calling.

Everyone supporting the OP seems to have some element of twisted logic;

1 fag = instant foetal damage

Africans = abusers

Allowing a pissed mum to sleep until her baby developed 40% burns = heroic

psycho = murderer

It's all very narrow minded thinking.

[Keef]

The OP has also stopped posting, after a super bit of trolling.

10/10.

[plimsoul]

it doesn't take a troll to set this rabid bunch on fire, everything has been thrown at this one from psycho comments to bullying. go forum, go forum...

[Ligaturiosity]

I have not stopped posting. What are you talking about trolling? I am not sure why you feel the need to be so incredibly nasty. I think your postings have been amongst the loftiest and most unpleasant. I don't mind you disagreeing with my original points but why the need to be so incredibly mocking and spiteful? Do you think that your latter points are constructive and to do with the debate?

[SeanMacGabhann]

y'see this is the bit I don't understand - how can you be so sensitive to people calling you names when you have publicly had such a pop at someone? That isn't me calling you any names, just a genuine question

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I am sorry, does Nigeria have a good track record for human rights? Who said that Africans are all abusers? I did not, I said that in Africa they might not have a law for smacking children ( and they don't) but in the UK we DO have a law for smacking children. Take that how you will.