Pregnant woman smoking down Lordship lane!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I have lost my grandfather to Lung Cancer, and my uncle is recovering from Lung Cancer, both are smokers, and they are not even heavy smokers but nonetheless they smoked so yes, it IS black and white to me. Smoking is bad. Full stop. When it comes to my son's health and wellbeing and being as he is the most precious thing in the world to me, I would never take something that could harm his health, especially when it is proven that they are harmful. That is common sense.

I asked about Kings college because I have dealt with them many times and it amazes me how a lot of staff there all dish out different advice that conflicts with their colleagues.

Yes, we all agreed that smoking was harmful, but rather than say to the OP " I don't agree with you verbalising your thoughts, even though I don't agree with smoking" a lot of you were really rude and was more concerned about the mother despite the fact she was smoking. I find that bizarre. She is an adult. I just hope she does not become one of those parents smoking over their child.

[Keef]

So if we saw a heavily pregnant woman downing a bottle of vodka/taking herion/coke/smoking a cannabis etc we should turn a blind eye because they might be under stress/lost a family member/ recieved bad news/it might be their first one? ok then.

It's certainly not comparable to downing a bottle of vodka or taking heroin FFS.

Vodka is legal Sean, so if a pregnant woman was to down a bottle of vodka, why is that different?

I'm a bit confused. So what if vodka is legal. Do you really think that downing a bottle is comparable with smoking a fag?

This thread is insane, because people are not listening. I don't know how many times it has been said, but I will say it again...

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT SMOKING WHEN PREGNANT IS GOOD FOR THE BABY, OR PARTICULARLY ADVISABLE!!!!!!

BUT...

Please stop talking like it is some sort of evil crime.

My mum has never smoked, yet I have asthma. Wow, this clearly proves something.... Oh wait, no it doesn't.

As for talking about miscarriages, I think that is just crass, and inconsiderate to those who may have been through it.

[sophiesofa]

what keef said

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Ok let me break this down simply.

You can get cancer and asthma despite not smoking etc. BUT smoking INCREASES the chances of getting it. Is that clear? So if something increases the chances...why do it?

I find it also amazing that despite the fact that cigarettes has 4000 nasty things in it, that 69, yes SIXTY NINE of those ingredients are known to cause cancer, that is ok, because it is just one ( as far as we know it was just the one) and Vodka, though it is legal, and has a lot less ingredients, is not the same?

So why is it one rule for one and one rule for the other? Vodka very bad, Cigarette bad.

Are you for real?

[Keef]

Down a bottle of vodka everyday.

Smoke a few fags every day.

Which one do you think will make you ill first?

Yes I am for real.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I didn't say every day. I said if you saw a pregnant woman downing a bottle of vodka.

[Keef]

It would still be a lot more harmful than smoking a fag.

[sophiesofa]

Seeing a woman down a bottle of vodka is very different to seeing one smoke one cigarette. I honestly don't know what I'd do if I saw a pregnant woman down a whole bottle of vodka, but I'd try and find help or help her in some way but certainly wouldn't publically chastise her.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Either way it is still legal, she could be having personal problems, it might just be the one time etc etc etc.

[sophiesofa]

Yes, but a whole bottle of vodka is still not comparable to witnessing one cigarette - do you agree?

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Maybe I should rephrase that better, if I saw a pregnant woman take a shot of vodka, I would still be shocked.

I think a few cigarettes a day, or a few glasses of wine a day, is still not good.

Ok, I am seriously out of this conversation now. We are just going round and round and I am getting a bit dizzy.

Maybe I should go and start a new thread about if the term 'African' is offensive?

[Smiler]

I am pregnant and would rather have the vodka than the fags.

[Smiler]

Or gin.

[Harsh-but-Fair]

It seems the debate is hotting up and there appears a sea cgange in opinion as we have now exhausted the rights of Mum argument and start thinking about the kids. To start comparing the risks of crossing the road with smoking whilst pregnant is daft, clearly intended to stir things up.

"...i think it's important that some people are reminded how their behaviour impacts on others." Esme makes an excellent point people's individual rights do not always take preference. We are all constrained by our behaviour and actions. Telling someone that by them smoking it is potentially harming their baby is perhaps a socially responsible thing to do. Both my children were born at Kings and the amount of literature and advice available on the importance of giving up could sink a ship.

You cannot hide behind addictions as there is more than you to now think about. You ought to be informed.

[Ligaturiosity]

I had decided not to post on here again, but since the debate is continuing - and there are some reasonable points being made now, thank goodness, I want to take this opportunity to say I consider that much of what I said has been taken out of context. Of course in asking people's opinion I expected many people to disagree with what I said. But not

everyone has disagreed, and frankly this forum is not a reflection of the wider society. Incidentally, I should not have originally phrased it 'let loose' when I encounterd this woman as I was quite calm. If I am honest the words just popped out, and I was quite polite really! I never said I wasn't polite, so strange that I have been called a psycho by the 'charming' Lawrence (deliberate sarcasm used). I do accept that not everyone would have spoken out; that's fine. I have no problem with that at all. I did not 'tell off' mum to be either. Nor am I a 'one woman angry

mob' as Louisej seemed to think. I am not surprised she thought that though, reading some of the postings aimed at me. I am sorry if that is how it comes across in my postings too. Emails/written messages do not always express the appropriate sentiment and emotion. Sure I accept that maybe it wasn't 'my place' to say anything. But I did. It may be socially unacceptable, but so is smoking, esp publicly/publically while pregnant. I am relieved that posters like Heidi, Esme, Plimsoul, HBF can see that (and the people who have messaged me privately).

Keef: in your continued defence that the odd 'cheeky puff' doesn't do any harm, I am taking a calculated guess that you are a smoker and have done so around pregnant women and young children. Nice. Was it Sean M who said it is more dangerous for a pregnant woman to cross the road? A ridiculous thing to say IMHO, unless you meant to say, but forgot to add, that said pregnant woman was lighting up as she was crossing the road and not paying attention to passing traffic.

I have been genuinely flabbergasted (as have others who have PMed me but won't post) that forumites have commended those

women who have posted on here admitting they didn't give up smoking while pregnant as it was 'too hard'. Most medics recommend pregnant smoking women try nicotine patches as that is not as 'bad' for the foetus as the carbon monoxide and other toxic chemicals in cigarettes. I appreciate I am fighting a losing battle on here, but I firmly believe that there are certain, thankfully, RARE instances where people should speak out.

Two final points: why are some people too afraid to post in support? Because there are a few on here who are real bullies, albeit cyber ones. I bet said people wouldn't say boo to a goose in real life, preferring to stomp around on an internet website, lol.

Standswithfist: you were stressed while pregnant and therefore allege that the medics told you to carry on smoking. My youngest child was BORN at Kings and that is a stressful enough experience, but I cannot condone the fact that you chose to continue to smoke when there are other stress relieving activites to help. I cannot believe that members of the medical profession did not support you further in trying to give up.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Same old arrant nonsense. What bullying is going on exactly? - once again people who are disagreed with cry mummy and say they are being bullied. Only person bullied was the unsuspecting woman you had a pop at. All the rest is disagreement. Or would you care to say how you and others are being bullied exactly?

As for your judgement of the people being happy to stick to an internet website, that just shows how little you know and how many people on here actually do interact in real life. As in a real community. people afraid to post are just that - anonymous cowards, and hiding behind a cry of "cyber bullies" is just pathetic

It was me who mentioned about crossing roads - and I did that to point on the nonsensical nature of your circular arguments. You are trying to say that an unborn child should be put under NO risk or danger at all. But it is also impossible to wrap yourself and the child in cotton wool. Every single day people take calculated risks to get through life - road casualties are a massive statistic but we all cross roads, or drive - knowing full well it's unlikely to happen. Same thing as the woman smoking. It's unlikely to have any consequence of any import - (unlike downing bottles of vodka or taking heroin)

But if I was married to or living with someone carrying a child, and they smoked - I would try and talk them out of it. But a stranger on the street? That is the problem people have with yo uand you just don't get it

As for you backtracking and saying how polite you were to the woman in question? I would love to see how you tell someone they should be "ashamed" and how "disgusting" they are in a polite fashion

[Keef]

Keef: in your continued defence that the odd 'cheeky puff' doesn't do any harm, I am taking a calculated guess that you are a smoker and have done so around pregnant women and young children. Nice.

I am a smoker, but the rest of that comment if offensive bu!l sh!t. Not surprising though.

[Saila]

>Keef: in your continued defence that the odd 'cheeky puff' doesn't do any harm, I am taking a calculated guess that you are a smoker and have done so around pregnant women and young children. Nice. Was it Sean M who said it is more dangerous for a pregnant woman to cross the road?

I'm really really shocked you have said this

I gave up smoking a year before i got pregnant. I haven't had one since. I think that qualifies me to comment about addiction hence my post much earlier in the thread

I therefore understand what that woman's going through better than say a 'never smoker'. i therefore agree with Keef et al on this thread. BUT that doesnt' mean i smoked during or after pregnancy because i think these things!

that's unbelievable that you made those judegments about keef..

does this mean that you think ALL the people on this thread who are challenging the original poster therefore not only AGREES with smokign whilst pregnant but now does it as well?

craziness

[Ligaturiosity]

SeanM, you are totally wrong in saying that I am "trying to say that an unborn child should be put under NO risk or danger at all." That is not what I am saying. It is yet another example of twisting my words entirely. When did I say or suggest this?

And believe me you can say 'ashamed' and 'disgusted' in a polite fashion. I would have no problem at all with someone saying such a thing to me if I was doing something which is likely to harm an innocent being.

I DO NOT classify being a bully since it can be defined along the lines of a person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people. Habitually being the operative word, and to some extent smaller and weaker. I note that you 'habitually' pop up shouting your mouth off on various occasions which is fine I suppose...but definitely pot calling the kettle black.

I am well aware that you socialise with SOME on the forum, and once again you twist my words saying I said 'the people are happy to stick to an internet website'. I said no such thing. STOP TWISTING and misconstruing please.

[Ligaturiosity]

Well Keef I am glad that the rest of it is BS, but I got two PMs from people alleging that is what you did/do. I am glad that you have managed to set the record straight.

[Saila]

this has surely got out of hand

how can Keef in anyway stick up for himself when he doesn't know who's speaking with who and people are making accusations about him on a public forum

never met the guy but this feels WRONG

edit to say: never met the guy as in i'm not mates with him, i have no relationship with him but as an independent person i think what you're saying is pretty low

[sophiesofa]

Ligaturiosity Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well Keef I am glad that the rest of it is BS, but

> I got two PMs from people alleging that is what

> you did/do. I am glad that you have managed to set

> the record straight.

Then why did you call it a 'calculated guess'? I think this is all getting far too personal and it seems like you set keef up for that one. And no I've never met Keef.

[seanareprawn]

Keef: in your continued defence that the odd 'cheeky puff' doesn't do any harm, I am taking a calculated guess that you are a smoker and have done so around pregnant women and young children. Nice.

Standswithfist: you were stressed while pregnant and therefore allege that the medics told you to carry on smoking.

Can I suggest that since you're trying to show how reasonable you are now (and presumably not a "cyber bully") , perhaps you shouldn't be building up straw men arguments against other posters in an attempt to win the debate. Tackle the argument not the man

BTW, I don't think it's particularly bad to speak to a stranger about this kind of issue as long as it's done sensitively. I can understand your disgust at seeing someone smoking whilst pregnant. But if you are truly shocked at the reaction to your original post then you need to step back and maybe ask some of your friends about boundary issues.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Liga

Are you now comparing my using a public forum to debate a point (or as you call it ?habitually? popping up, shouting my mouth off) with what you did to a stranger in public?

There is a world of difference in that ? anyone coming on here and entering any debate expects to have people disagree with them. That woman entered no such voluntary contract. That makes what you did wrong

Have you said unborn children should not be put at ANY risk? No you haven?t said that to be fair ? I didn?t mean to twist your words

However, you do constantly make very big statements about how smoking is so particularly harmful whilst dismissing so many others (such as diet)

[Ligaturiosity]

How have I 'dismissed so many other things such as diet'? Did you read what I said about your misrepresentation of what I have been saying? This is yet another example.

Of course a healthy diet is important but it is much more socially unacceptable and potentially dangerous to be smoking than eating a bar of chocolate. Everything a pregnant woman imbibes goes to the growing foetus. Clearly, this means that there isn't room for dangerous cigarette smoke and it's harmful chemical contents. It is proven that hese chemicals will find their way to the foetus through the placenta. These chemicals can harm your baby and can sometimes be fatal. I do not see how eating a mars bar can have anywhere near the same detrimental effects.

Thankfully, public opinion regarding cigarette smoking in this country has undergone significant changes in the last few decades. Majority opinion has shifted toward a more negative view of smoking, (shouts) ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEONE IS DOING IT WHO IS PREGNANT!