Pregnant woman smoking down Lordship lane!

[Narnia]

Keef Wrote:

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> If a miscarriage is going to happen, it's going to

> happen. I don't think smoking a fag makes any

> difference really.

Your right Keef. Once the miscarriage has occured you're usually offered a last fag before they shoot you.

[BellendenBear]

Ligaturiosity Wrote:

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> Skye, interesting that you refer to the 'poor

> woman' smoking whilst walking down L/ship Lane

> whilst obviously pregnant. Personally I feel for

> the 'poor unborn child' having to inhale all those

> noxious chemicals and smoke, not to mention the

> list of ailments which it is more likely to get as

> a result of its 'poor mum' selfishly smoking

> during pregnancy

'poor unborn' children don't inhale smoke, noxious chemicals or anything else. Your poor understanding of basic physiology seems to reflect your poor understanding of everything else that is human or humane.

If your tactics for tackling addiction are so valid why haven't the NHS cessation services caught on to it? Why have all these clinics when we could just lock them all in a room and let loose? Maybe the specialist clinics that try to support and stabilise pregnant addicts could save all their time and just hire you to let loose instead.

>

> Narnia, I think your scenario is a valid one,

> although I would argue that what this woman was

> doing was much worse than throwing litter. But

> then I would think that wouldn't I?

[jam]

You are wrong, they do inhale carbon monoxide....http://smokefree.nhs.uk/smoking-and-pregnancy/stage-one/

BellendenBear Wrote:

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> Ligaturiosity Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Skye, interesting that you refer to the 'poor

> > woman' smoking whilst walking down L/ship Lane

> > whilst obviously pregnant. Personally I feel

> for

> > the 'poor unborn child' having to inhale all

> those

> > noxious chemicals and smoke, not to mention the

> > list of ailments which it is more likely to get

> as

> > a result of its 'poor mum' selfishly smoking

> > during pregnancy

>

> 'poor unborn' children don't inhale smoke, noxious

> chemicals or anything else. Your poor

> understanding of basic physiology seems to reflect

> your poor understanding of everything else that is

> human or humane.

>

> If your tactics for tackling addiction are so

> valid why haven't the NHS cessation services

> caught on to it? Why have all these clinics when

> we could just lock them all in a room and let

> loose? Maybe the specialist clinics that try to

> support and stabilise pregnant addicts could save

> all their time and just hire you to let loose

> instead.

> >

> > Narnia, I think your scenario is a valid one,

> > although I would argue that what this woman was

> > doing was much worse than throwing litter. But

> > then I would think that wouldn't I?

[Ligaturiosity]

If you could prove it for sure fairylamb then very possibly I might intervene.

Thank you for the link Jam. Kind of makes a nonsense of what bellendenbear said 'poor unborn' children don't inhale smoke, noxious chemicals or anything else.'

[BellendenBear]

I wasn't saying that they aren't exposed to those chemicals or the effects of them. I was pointing out that unborn babies do not inhale.

[Ligaturiosity]

Bellendenbear, I think foetuses may well inhale, but even if they do not, I am not sure what your point is. Whether they inhale or not, as Jam's link shows, smoking while pregnant is harmful.

Medical experts believe that smoking cigarettes while pregnant is probably the number 1 cause of adverse outcomes for babies.

For those of you who would like to believe that the smoker I saw was possibly only smoking a few, then this is almost as bad as smoking lots. "Every cigarette you smoke increases the risks to your pregnancy. A few cigarettes a day are safer than a whole pack, but the difference isn't as great as you might think. A smoker's body is especially sensitive to the first doses of nicotine each day, and even just one or two cigarettes will significantly tighten blood vessels. That's why even a "light" habit can have an outsize effect on your baby's health."

Big deal. I had the 'audacity' to say how shocked I was to see a pregnant woman smoking in the street. I continue to be amazed at how shocked so many of you lot are that I said that. Who knows, the woman in question may well dwell on what I said and aim to stop. Or not. Who knows?

I've been thinking of the fat child being given a big mars bar by its parents, and I do not think it is anywhere near as bad as the situation I have mentioned.

[jollybaby]

Out of interest these are the most recent stats I could find on smoking in pregnancy

'In England in 2005, 32 per cent of mothers reported smoking in the 12 months before or during pregnancy. Seventeen per cent of mothers continued to smoke throughout pregnancy, whilst 49 per cent of smoking mothers gave up before or during pregnancy' from the NHS stats website

So given that this is likely to be an underestimation and the 17% doesn't include those who give up during pregnancy - this suggests that over a quarter of all pregnant women will smoke at some point during pregnancy.

So ligaturiosity you have your work cut out in your one woman mission to stop pregnant women smoking by public shaming - You could simply target every pregnant woman in the street and you'd have a 1 in 4 hit rate. I work in healthcare and treat people with smoking related diseases and as Bellendenbear said shock/disciplinarian tactics like you used rarely work.

[Ligaturiosity]

Jollybaby, did I say that I said something so that it WOULD 'work' (ie her quitting smoking)? No I did not. I said it because I felt shocked and disgusted by it. Period. It is not my business if she chooses to put her health and more importantly that of her foetuses, at risk. But I feel it is my business if I see something so evidently revolting to me and countless others, to express that revulsion. At the same time it is the individual's right to remain silent if they feel that the appropriate tactic.

I don't care if someone is a crack smoking, binge drinking, heroin shooting, smoking, prostitute. When you find out that you are pregnant you STOP these things. If you have trouble stopping you GET HELP. I don't buy that you "can't" stop. Because now you are putting these things into a baby, not just yourself. If you don't want to have to take care of a baby for nine months- don't get pregnant. I see no difference between smoking when you know you are pregnant and teaching/making your six month old to smoke.

As Heidi has said, if you choose to offend society with your socially and morally unacceptable behaviour, you are opening yourself up to be criticised.

[Lawrence]

"I said it because I felt shocked and disgusted by it. Period. It is not my business if she chooses to put her health and more importantly that of her foetuses, at risk. But I feel it is my business if I see something so evidently revolting to me and countless others, to express that revulsion"

"if you choose to offend society with your socially and morally unacceptable behaviour, you are opening yourself up to be criticised."

Fine, let's continue.....

Are you now saying her babies health is not your business but whether or not she repulses you, is?

You repulse me. As every post comes out you display less and less intelligence and compassion.

[Ligaturiosity]

You repulse me Lawrence. Your language is far more offensive than mine.

[Skye]

"I said it because I felt shocked and disgusted by it. Period. It is not my business if she chooses to put her health and more importantly that of her foetuses, at risk. But I feel it is my business if I see something so evidently revolting to me and countless others, to express that revulsion"

She needs help, I am not even joking. I hope she doesn?t have kids, sweet lord I dread to think.

[jollybaby]

I cannot believe what I've just read. I'd tried to inject some fact into this 'debate' and now you say that you don't really care about the health implications/protection of her foetus you just felt you had the right to verbally abuse her as you found her behaviour offensive.

As I said 1 in 4 pregnant women smoke at some point in their pregnancy. This is not an isolated, freak event. You must live a very sheltered life if you are so easily shocked.

[Growlybear]

Ligaturiosity Wrote:

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> As Heidi has said, if you choose to offend society

> with your socially and morally unacceptable

> behaviour, you are opening yourself up to be

> criticised.

But I'm not sure that this woman WAS offending society as a whole - it looks more as though she was offending YOU. It certainly wouldn't have offended me if I'd seen her smoking whilst pregnant.

[jam]

The NHS are keen to encourage women to stop smoking during pregnancy, maybe it won't be long before a smoking test for every pregnant women is made legal. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10399242

[Lawrence]

"You repulse me Lawrence. Your language is far more offensive than mine"

My language not chosen without thought. Nor is it aimed at anyone based on their age, health, colour, lifestyle, education or upbringing. Only at you and your raving on the street and in this thread.

You refuse to engage with anyone in a logical manner, and your views become viler by the page. What else is their to do but sling mud?

It would appear that your language is fine but your actions and opinions seem offensive to more than just me.

[Lawrence]

Lig- "I see no difference between smoking when you know you are pregnant and teaching/making your six month old to smoke"

I have nothing..

[new mother]

Lig, how do you have TIME for all this? I envy you!

[esme]

Excellent debate going on here and fascinating that most are berating Ligaturiosity for exercising her freedom of speech as tho she's just a busybody!

I think WELL DONE you, kind of thing most of us would be shocked by (as per some of the posts smoking DOES harm unborn babies) but say nothing... I'd never be brave enough to comment to someone's face but I know sooo many people who've had trouble conceiving (and some who just can't) that I think if you're lucky enough to get pregnant then why risk the baby's health - or life even - by smoking.

Chantelle - I really don't think you can compare smoking whilst pregnant to feeding a baby formula. Breast may be best but formula isn't likely to harm a child. And for all these people who reckon formula feeding mums get a raw deal I can assure you that I have had earache about breastfeeding only "why don't you give him a bottle?" "he's hungry, he needs more than just your milk" and on and on.

I think we should all live and let live but sometimes it's good to speak your mind, if I wasn't aware of how my behaviour affected my baby I would be glad someone pointed it out to me and it might make me think twice.

[jollybaby]

But is it good to speak your mind? That's the whole point. What was it going to achieve in this instance apart from some form of bizarre gratification for the OP. As has been said public humiliation like this is unlikely to change this woman's behaviour (and as Ligaturiosity has admitted herself that this was not the aim of her tirade).

Esme - you make it sound like shouting at this woman would achieve some form of redress for all the women in the world who are having difficulty conceiving

[standswithfist]

oh my word. i have been reading this with interest. It may help to give some background.

I was told I could not conceive by 3 different gynaecologists.

Then the unthinkable happened and I got pregnant after 10 years of believing (the specialists told me) that I would never conceive. I smoked and drank heavily. I found out i was pregnant and immediately stopped smoking. and then went through the most horrendous withdrawl that both the midwife and doctor told me to stop being silly (their words) and to start smoking again as I was stressing myself out and therefore the baby. I saw the cessation nurse (from Kings Hospital) and equally she said to me to cut down and not to quit as I was a heavy smoker. I found it so difficult and spent many a time crying because I was addicted to this drug yet could not stop for my precious very much wanted baby.

So L - people like you make me want to throw up. If you had stopped me in the street and said that to me I probably would have punched you. Yes I had a choice but the choice of wanting to give up caused too much stress to my body that both doctors and my midwives said I should not give up completely. Unless you know the story behind the lady you should not comment nor berate her ESPECIALLY in public.

My daughter now is not below weight or deficiant in any way. She is perfect in every sense and is beyond her years in so many ways. Walked when she was 9 months and is such a chatterbox who is not ill. We may have been lucky but at the end of the day it is I who would have to live with the consequenses of smoking during her pregnancy. It would have nothing to do with my partner, parents, siblings or Joe Public.

You really do have a difficulty seeing the other side of this. Who are you to tell anyone what to do?!!

[nicolemodesti]

What a personal and brave post standswithfist...admiration for/of you!!

new mother - agree, where does one find the time?

[giggirl]

What a wonderful post StandWF. I applaud you. Just goes to show that nothing should ever be taken at face value.

[Belle]

Yes - great to your story SWF and shows that things are not black and white.

[Alec John Moore]

Well done for coming out with that truly moving testament. I respect you and am humbled. I've been following this thread with interest and your story confirms that it is wrong to condemn behaviour that we don't understand. That makes us judgmental and, as many have said, who are we to judge.

[mumof3girlies]

I was determined not to post on this thread but having had an experience today which makes me wonder if I actually came face to face with ligaturiosity I have had to post. I was on Goose Green today with my daughters and their friends and parents, enjoying an end of term picnic. My youngest (18m+) was mainly playing with her friends and her sisters (6 and 8) whilst I supervised her and chatted to friends. At one point I went to speak to a friend of mine who has a child in reception at my daughter's school, I was interrupted from my conversation by a mother I had never met before who asked me if I was said 18 month old's mother, I confirmed I was and she launched into " I have been watching in horror that other children were picking her up and carrying her around" I politely told her that mydaughter delighted in interaction with her sisters and older children, and that I was confident that mydaughters were old enough to be careful with her. This did not seem to register as she began again with the same speech, again repeating "I watched in horror as they carried her around and handled her etc. etc." I was quite literally speechless, saying nothing more that reiterating that she is a confident child who would come to me if she was unhappy with a situation. Fortuitously I bumped into this mother later as I was picking my older 2 children up from a friends house and bluntly told her it was absolutely none of her business and she would do better to watch her own 2 small children rather that 'watch in horror at mine'.

In the 8 years that I have been a mother I continue to be amazed how I manage to keep my opinions to myself and have never to this day, commented to another mother or father on their parenting, however I have experienced many instances when other individuals have felt compelled to give me their opinions on how my children are dressed, whether I'm holding their hands, how to manage their behaviour and so on. The expression 'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' comes to mind.

No-one, but no-one is a perfect parent.