Naughty Bradley Wiggins ?

[Otta]

But not everyone can follow their dream. And if the only way you can be a world class cyclist is to take drugs that could give you unfair advantage, then sorry but maybe you need a new dream.

I don't really care either way to be honest, I just find it quite funny how quick a lot of people are to make excuses for a hero.

[Mick Mac]

Interesting point....

Oscar P once asked to run in the "normal" Olympics and was refused

There is no automatic right in top class athletics to bring everyone up to the same level.

[Mick Mac]

Otta Wrote:

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> But not everyone can follow their dream. And if

> the only way you can be a world class cyclist is

> to take drugs that could give you unfair

> advantage, then sorry but maybe you need a new

> dream.

>

> I don't really care either way to be honest, I

> just find it quite funny how quick a lot of people

> are to make excuses for a hero.

Worse still if you don't really have the condition in the first place, or you have a minor version of it, and take a sledgehammer drug which you know is performance enhancing. To me, if that is the case that's cheating, even if you get a doctor to prescribe it and your team negotiates a TUE.

[red devil]

Otta Wrote:

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> I don't really care either way to be honest, I

> just find it quite funny how quick a lot of people

> are to make excuses for a hero.

Happens all the time in football...Luis Suarez? ;-)

[rendelharris]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Interesting point....

>

> Oscar P once asked to run in the "normal" Olympics

> and was refused

>

> There is no automatic right in top class athletics

> to bring everyone up to the same level.

He was for a brief time told he couldn't compete in the main Olympics but he went to CAS and had the decision overturned - he competed at London 2012, making the semi-finals in the 400M as I recall.

[Otta]

red devil Wrote:

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> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I don't really care either way to be honest, I

> > just find it quite funny how quick a lot of

> people

> > are to make excuses for a hero.

>

> Happens all the time in football...Luis Suarez?

> ;-)

Funnily enough I made exactly that point to someone the other day.

[Mick Mac]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Mick Mac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Interesting point....

> >

> > Oscar P once asked to run in the "normal"

> Olympics

> > and was refused

> >

> > There is no automatic right in top class

> athletics

> > to bring everyone up to the same level.

>

> He was for a brief time told he couldn't compete

> in the main Olympics but he went to CAS and had

> the decision overturned - he competed at London

> 2012, making the semi-finals in the 400M as I

> recall.

Really??? I'm astounded.

[Otta]

Yeah he definitely ran in the main Olympics in 2012.

From wiki

"

400 metres at the 2012 Summer Olympics on 4 August

At the 2012 Summer Olympics on 4 August 2012, Pistorius became the first amputee runner to compete at an Olympic Games.[97] In the 400 metres race, he took second place in the first heat of five runners, finishing with a time of 45.44 seconds (his best time of the season so far) to advance to the semifinals on 5 August.[98] He ran in the second semifinal, where he finished eighth and last with a time of 46.54 seconds.[99][100]

In the first semifinal of the 4 ? 400 metres relay race on 9 August, the second runner of the South African team, Ofentse Mogawane, fell and was injured before reaching Pistorius, who was to have run the third leg. South Africa was passed into the final on appeal to the IAAF, due to interference by Vincent Kiilu, the Kenyan athlete who downed Mogawane.[101][102] The South African relay team eventually finished eighth out of the field of nine in the final on 10 August. However, it established a season's best time for the team of 3 minutes 3.46 seconds,[103] with Pistorius running the final leg in 45.9 seconds.[104] Pistorius was chosen to carry the South African flag for the closing ceremony."

That last bit is a bit awkward.

I seem to remember that, ironically, some were questioning whether his inclusion was fair to the other athletes, as they felt his "blades" may have given him an unfair advantage.

[Mick Mac]

I stand corrected.

I tend to be on holiday when the Olympics are on.

[rendelharris]

Otta Wrote:

> I seem to remember that, ironically, some were

> questioning whether his inclusion was fair to the

> other athletes, as they felt his "blades" may have

> given him an unfair advantage.

I think it was pretty conclusively decided that they did give him something of an advantage in a straight line once up to speed, but that the disadvantages at the start and on bends more than outweighed them. There was also a kerfuffle about him being in the 4x400M team as others were worried they could be cut by the blades unless he ran the first leg (where they have to stay in lanes).

Interestingly his main advantage was/is simply having no legs below the knee then blood returns to be oxygenated more quickly and also no lactic acid build up in calves which is what slows 400M runners in the last quarter - Pistorious was able to maintain far more consistent splits than a normal 400M athlete.

[Jeremy]

Otta Wrote:

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> But not everyone can follow their dream. And if

> the only way you can be a world class cyclist is

> to take drugs that could give you unfair

> advantage, then sorry but maybe you need a new dream.

I am neutral in Wiggins' case, as I've not read much about it, and cycling is boring anyway. But still disagree with the sentiment that if your illness cannot be controlled by common-or-garden medication then that's just tough luck.

[rendelharris]

Jeremy Wrote:

> I am neutral in Wiggins' case, as I've not read

> much about it, and cycling is boring anyway. But

> still disagree with the sentiment that if your

> illness cannot be controlled by common-or-garden

> medication then that's just tough luck.

Boring? When you see a whole pack descending an alpine pass at 70mph+ within inches of each other with sheer drops on every bend...each to their own.

Anyway, the question with Wiggins is that it would appear he's not really just been taking common-or-garden medication, i.e. he's not been using a puffer every day to control asthma, he took three massive doses of asthma medication years apart, each one just before a big race, including the Tour de France win.

[Jeremy]

Yep, as stated my post was in response to something Otta said, rather than Wiggins in particular.

[Otta]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> But still disagree with the sentiment that if your

> illness cannot be controlled by common-or-garden

> medication then that's just tough luck.

Not "tough luck", of course anyone should have whatever medication they need to be able to function properly. But if that gives you an unfair advantage in a race, then you shouldn't be in the race.

[Otta]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Boring? When you see a whole pack descending an

> alpine pass at 70mph+ within inches of each other

> with sheer drops on every bend...each to their

> own.

That sounds great. Unfortunately my one experience of "spectating" at a cycling event was when the tour went past my office in Newham a couple of years back. We all rushed down to line the side of the road. Waited about half hour, only for a flash of colour to zoom past (I admit the speed is impressive when you see it live) as the pack went by.

Then that was it and we went back to work.

So I think it's safe to say that cycling doesn't really do it for me.

I quite like watching the indoor track races at the Olympics, I personally find that more exciting.

[Jeremy]

Otta Wrote:

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> But if that gives you an unfair

> advantage in a race, then you shouldn't be in the race.

Yes agree with that, of course... it's just that's not what I got from your original statement

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Boring? When you see a whole pack descending an

> alpine pass at 70mph+ within inches of each other

> with sheer drops on every bend...

And how long do they spend cycling up the bloody mountain first? YAWNN!!!

[rendelharris]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Boring? When you see a whole pack descending

> an

> > alpine pass at 70mph+ within inches of each

> other

> > with sheer drops on every bend...each to their

> > own.

>

>

> That sounds great. Unfortunately my one experience

> of "spectating" at a cycling event was when the

> tour went past my office in Newham a couple of

> years back. We all rushed down to line the side of

> the road. Waited about half hour, only for a flash

> of colour to zoom past (I admit the speed is

> impressive when you see it live) as the pack went

> by.

Oh yes, it's definitely a sport for TV. Also one you have to know a little about to really appreciate what's going on - "a game of chess played over 2000 miles" as one commentator described the Tour. I know quite a few people with no interest in cycling who just watch it for the scenery...

[Mick Mac]

Each to their own. Some people think golf is boring.

[Otta]

It is Mick, it really is.

[Mick Mac]

And now Froome has some questions to answer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/42335916

The correlation between asthma drugs and champion cyclists is really quite ironic

[uncleglen]

I went to uni with someone who used a puffer- he said he gave him 'an edge'- I expect a broncho-dilator would definitely give an athlete 'an edge'...but then if they are ALL using them. It's like that stimulant drug Modafinil- supposed to be only available on prescription for narcolepsy and other things. It is reported that the whole office of the Australian treasury took it so that they could get their budget done on time.....Who else is using it and getting an 'edge' and making their colleagues look less than efficient?

[rendelharris]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> And now Froome has some questions to answer

>

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/42335916

>

> The correlation between asthma drugs and champion

> cyclists is really quite ironic

I know it seems absurd (and it's not just cyclists, around 40% of British Olympic athletes use an inhaler) but this, from Dr.John Dickinson, head of the respiratory clinic at the University of Kent, explains it:

"Athletes are more susceptible to asthma than the general population. The reason is that when you?re exercising you?re breathing in larger volumes of air, which, if you are susceptible, increases the dose of potential triggers for an asthma response. In cycling, you increase the amount of dry air going into your airway; and out on the road there is air pollution as well. Therefore you are more likely to trigger an inflammatory response, which is likely to cause asthma symptoms. Athletes increase their exposure, so they increase the chances of developing the condition."