Post natal depression or just a stressful time?

[Yorkie]

Hi forum, I need your help...

I've been back at work for almost three months (baby is 1 next week) and am really struggling to cope. My job is quite demanding and I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I think the twin roles of Mother and Worker are overwhelming me. I have been very good at leaving on time and saying No to extra stuff so am still able to do Morn/Eve breastfeeds but I average 5 hours sleep a night as she still wakes at 12 and 5.

I had to go back full time as I have the better paid job and OH took redundancy so he's doing the stay at home Dad thing. I was happy with this as surely it's the next best thing to me (you know what I mean) and would mean less running around to a child minder or nursery. What I wasn't prepared for was the searing anger I feel towards him. I'm so cross that he's at home and not me, and resentful when he only "manages" to do baby stuff and nothing domestic. I'd be outraged if anyone said that about a mum at home but it's honestly how I feel.

I never expected to feel like this. I thought I would be grateful we didn't go down the childcare route. We're fighting quite a bit (my stress has always come out in anger) and I'm worried about our relationship and the impact on baby. I've not wanted to hurt her but I have resented her when she won't go to sleep and all I want is a break at the end of an exhausting day.

I've always been a bit of a highly strung stress bunny and I was wary of post natal depression but the early months were fine, I felt a bit bonkers in a "normal" postnatal way ? laughing amongst the tears/shock of becoming a mum etc. I fed on demand and have tended towards the baby led in my parenting style which really suited me, contrary to my work persona. I was very happy on maternity leave.

So my question is; could this be very late post natal depression? Or is it just normal back to work/sleep deprived parental blues? I guess you'd be jealous of a child minder too? I?m wondering if it?s the contradiction between how I am at home and how I am at work that?s getting to me.

Has anyone experienced anything similar? Are there any support groups for FT working mums out there? None of my friends or family with babies went back FT so am feeling a bit isolated.

Any words of wisdom would be gratefully received, I can?t decide if I should go to my GPs for some medication (but don?t want to stop breastfeeding just yet) or counselling or if I just need to get a grip on my stress levels. Something?s got to give and at the moment it?s looking like it?s my mental health which just can?t be good for anyone.

Thanks for listening.

[duchessofdulwich]

perhaps if you contact your GP they may be able to give you a counselling referal before going down the medication route? it sounds like you could really do with a break, could you book a getaway with hubby or as a family? who goes to tend toyour little one at night? my roles are reversed to yours and i always tended to baby at night as hubby had work the next day and he needed his sleep.

[sillywoman]

This is out of my remit professionally, but as a Mum I'd say it doesn't sound like PND, rather a completely understandable emotional response to your current situation. It sounds like you enjoyed your maternity leave, & reading between the lines a bit you sound as though you found a more chilled out & relaxed Yorkie than your work persona demands. So it's completely understandable that you would feel angry & resentful at having to give up that lovely time to go back to work full time, and this on top of not enough sleep. You're trying to do 2 very different jobs fulltime. Bluntly, you're doing too much.

To my completely untrained ear (eye?) it doesn't sound like you would benefit from medication, rather from getting more sleep and a frank conversation with your other half about how you feel and the fact that despite how you felt before you went back to work, now you're actually in it your work/life balance isn't suiting you at all. I don't know whether there's any scope for adjustments, 4 day week for you, part-time job for partner? But If he is going to be a stay at home Dad then he needs to take on the full responsibility for all that entails, including keeping the household chores ticking. It's not just keeping baby happy until you get home.

Also, I think I'd be getting my partner to get up at 12 and 5, bring me the baby then settle baby back to sleep when feeding has finished (actually, on reflection, at age 1 waking at 12 and 5 for a feed could definitely be tweaked so that it's only once a night. Maybe a pre bedtime (your bedtime) dreamfeed, then another feed at 5 with partner settling to sleep, definitely not you.)

This is a big time of transition for both you and your partner and you both need to acknowledge that to find a way of living as a family that meets all your needs you will both need to keep lines of communication wide open and be prepared to acknowledge when things aren't working as well as you hoped and to change things if you need to.

My heart goes out to you Yorkie. You sound like a lovely Mum, and a highly emotionally intelligent woman. I'm hoping someone more qualified than me can come along soon to give you 'proper' advice, but in the meantime I didn't want your post to go unacknowledged. Please feel free to ignore all I've said if none of it works for you.

SW

[Moi23]

Hi Yorkie, I wouldn't call myself qualified here, nor am I in the same situation as you, but I do know how you feel. A while back after having a baby I went through a very stressful 6 month period while we moved house. Like you, when I'm stressed it comes out in anger. I was having more and more 'bad' days and found myself in a very bleak place emotionally. I reached a point where I realized I couldn't carry on like that, but was too confused to confide in anyone. I ended up going to my GP. As it happened it was my Health Visitor who ended up being an enormous support. She came round quite a few times to talk to me. She was completely impartial, I could talk very openly with her and she helped me to see things in perspective. I was lucky to have an excellent HV though.

I think sillywoman's suggestion of cutting down the amount you are doing is very wise. It sounds like you are under too much pressure. Your husband and you are a team, you need to find a balance, so neither of you are overstretched (I don't expect my husband to do all the household chores and nighttime feeds and do a full-time job!). Going to your GP is not a bad idea, not necessarily for medication, but for the support. Even if you are not actually clinically depressed, you're finding it hard to cope, so get all the help you can. You might find, like I did, that once you reach out and actively try and do something about how you are feeling things do get a lot better.

I really do feel for you. It's a really hard time going back to work, heart-wrenching. I used to resent my little boy's nursery and hate my clients for taking me away from him. Do PM me if you want to chat more.

[Fuschia]

My job is demanding at times and I have a long commute (do two days in the office, 2 at home) and my bf 2 yo twins still wake at night and sometimes it takes till 9pm to get one of them settled... and I'm pregnant! So I do feel for you.

I think you are doing too much, as the others have said. It's not easy dealing with a night waking bf baby AND working even a few days a week, let alone full time.

Can you take a few days off and catch up with your sleep then have a serious talk with your partner about what's going on?

x

[BeccaL]

Hi Yorkie

I'm a full time working mum and my husband was a stay at home dad since our daughter was 5 months old. It is tough, but you need to make sure you look after yourself. Agree that your hubbie should definitely bring baby to you at night, although I also agree that if you could reduce the night feeds to one (or none) that might be better. Can you go to bed earlier as well - difficult I know because you also need/want a bit of time just with your husband when baby is in bed - but you sound like a load of sleep would really help, and if you're not going to bed until after the midnight feed, no wonder you're tired.

You and hubbie definitely need to look at home-related chores and agree who is going to what, how often. I'm lucky/lazy enough to afford a cleaner and definitely the best money spent every week as it means we don't argue about cleaning or spend all weekend cleaning. You both need a good think about what really needs doing when - if the bathroom floor is only mopped once a month, for example, is that OK? I'm quite lax about household things, so things being cleaned less often doesn't bother me that much! I also took the attitude that as hubbie was working at home at the same time, that looking after her, feeding her (and us) and working were probably enough for him to do during the day. Also how much cooking/food shopping does your husband do?

One massive benefit of a stay at home dad is the feedback you'll get about what your daughter is doing and how she's developing which you don't get in the same way when they are in child care - make sure you get the feedback from him, especially when she's still young.

Hope this helps - feel free to PM if you want or have any questions?

Becca x

[ryedalema]

Hi Yorkie - I'm sort of in a similar boat to you work wise. This is my last day of maternity leave :(.

But during the last six months, every week day I've:

- looked after our little baby

- looked after her three year old sister

- taxied my husband to the train station

- made his daily breakfasts, packed lunches and evening dinners

- kept the house clean, tidy and the washing basket from overfilling

- done all the morning routines (dressed, teeth and hair, tea/milk for all)

- most of the going to bed routines (bath, pjs, teeth bed etc)

- plus kept our family social diary, paid the bills, done the budget, booked holidays, organised birthday parties, baked (!) and other random things

- oh, and i did 95% of the night calls.

And at weekends - he's had the lie-ins!

So I don't think you are getting it fair coming back from a full day's work to housework, night calls and g**dness knows what else. Yes, you're the only one with the equipment to bf, but there's an awful lot else he could do to make things easier for you (see above).

In addition I remember how it was last time I came back from mat. leave - it was such a shock to the system. Without sounding over dramatic (and very sorry to anyone with actual PTSD) it did seem a bit like that. What you've effectively gone through is similar to the heart wrench of your child's first day at school, their first day at Uni, the first time you leave your beloved for a time - it's a severing apron strings thing. Yes I know you go back to them every night, but it's not the same as the constant looking in their eyes and feeling like you are preparing them for the world.

I remember during my first few months of work getting to 5pm and getting a taxi to the nursery (which was a simple bus ride) because I couldn't wait to see her again.

It's such an organisational feat to get out in the morning and do a full day's work I'm not surprised you are going up the wall if you come back to a messy house or more chores. Btw - my OH is not best pleased the other way around if he comes home and I 'attack' him as he steps inside the door with the bath routine or feeding a tot!

Plus - on top of all this - your OH is getting all those lovely cosy moments that you had not so long ago (and perhaps some firsts?), I'd feel the same in your situation.

If I were in your situation what I would want is:

a) some damned strong and vocal appreciation of my plight (chocs, flowers, massages etc for starters)

b) some time for myself (this comes at a price though as as soon as you get it you tend to want time with the tot IME)

c) time just you and the tot.

It's a very difficult time - my OH and I had some of our worst rows during this time, nearly coming acropper on a number of occasions. I'd suggest, stick with it, be completely open about your feelings (calmly if you can - it's easier for them to understand). And....what I did was phone the Samaritans. They are there (and others) use them. You aren't being silly - no one can negate your feelings, and you ARE worth it!

Hope it helpsxxx

PM me if you want a chat xxxx

[new mother]

My heart goes out to you.

You are indeed doing too much.

I'm not folowing this though - could you express for the 12 and/or 5 feed?

I was thinking of taking quite a well paid job the other day which would invovle my husband staying at home exactly as you are doing. i too fondly imagined it would lead to domestic harmony with my children being taken very good care of. However, i realised that I would also be looking subconsciously for quite a range of stuff to happen at home, a book to be written, a business started/something. He correctly pointed out that I haven't achieved any of this. I said "yes I know it might be illogical but I still need you to achieve something."

I think it's innate. (unfashionable to say so but I think it is jsut there..)

For what it's worth, and I have no medical experience, I think you're also completely shattered.

[Yorkie]

Oh forum I feel better already, thanks so much. I am definitely doing too much (posted in my lunch hour and have been scooting back to read response whilst completing work!) and maybe I just needed to hear it from someone else. It?s also a year today that I left work to start my Maternity Leave so I don?t think that?s helped either.

We?ve been having a shocking week as her daytime naps have gone to pot which has impacted on bedtime so she?s taking an age to settle, which means I am even more knackered than normal and eating too late etc. We did have a routine of me going to bed early and her taking a bottle (we?re mix feeding anyway) from daddy but the timings went awry a few weeks ago and I?ve ended up back doing it. Mainly because it was easier to just bring her into bed as I would be back asleep quickly. I think I need to get tough on that first and insist back to OH that it?s his job whilst trying to manipulate the timing. And get a cleaner.

I do have a few days off the week after next and we have a holiday booked for a week in August. Away to a cottage, just the three of us near the beach and hills. So it?ll either kill us off completely or help me get some perspective!

I think I?ll go and see my GP anyway.

Right, must leave work on time and go and cuddle my lovely girl.

Thanks again for your support, it really means a lot.

[new mother]

Y, you don't have a cleaner ???? (says she in lady Bracjnell like tones!!). Get one. 6 hours a week inc ironing.

I also note that your posts are beautifully typed and written, in contrast to the slapdash approach that many of us have (and I definitely incldue myself in that). THey are also totally grammatical and I am a mega pedant on that sort of thing, use of "I" not "me" etc etc. I'm wondering if you have very high standards and expect a lot of yourself which until now, you've always been able to achieve. Forgive me for saying this, obviously, as it is really NOMYB, but is it worth taking a minute to think about whether something really has to give, for the sake of harmony.

As I say, I am conjecturing and tell me to beetle off if necessary. I 'm hoping you find it a helpful if persoal observation.

xx

[R&A]

I totally agree, i really don't think this is post natal depression. It's clearly rational reaction to an impossible situation

edit to say - if woman keep 'doing it all' are we just going to breed another generation of men who expect that?

[ryedalema]

R&A Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> edit to say - if woman keep 'doing it all' are we

> just going to breed another generation of men who

> expect that?

Very true R&A - I'm so sick of the 'I can't do it - you do it sooo much better' excuse. Grrrr. And I fall for it each time cos I haven't the energy to 'teach him'.

Sorry for the man bashing - I'm raw today as it's my last day of Mat. leave and my OH has decided to WFH as he has 'Manflu'!

xxx;-)

[R&A]

i'm sorry for man bashing too...

[ryedalema]

Oh and - I'm afraid to say, contraversial as it might be, I tend to agree with all R&A's points. The family bond/relationship is more important than anything and if you need OH to go back to work to get the respect back and need to outsource the childcare to achieve that then that's what it takes.

Someone else posted once that the most important thing for a child to see/feel is the strong bond between Ma and Pa - makes them feel secure and safe. I tend to agree with this and don't mind my children going to nursery so that they have happy parents too. G*sh that sounds selfish when said out loud.

I hope you understand the spirit of my point x

[Yorkie]

You're all right, I am a perfectionist and I'm worried I'm losing respect for him. I have ridiculously high expectations of myself (and OH too, let's be honest).

Interestingly though I am a bit of a slacker on the domestic front, always have been, but I just notice it more now we have a baby crawling everywhere and it adds to the out-of-control feeling.

Amazingly she's asleep already tonight so am going to go talk to my boy. I hear what you're saying and I do love him really and we need to sort it out. X

[R&A]

Good luck Yorkie

x

[BeccaL]

Good luck - hope you get it sorted x

[ryedalema]

Good luck - you sound strong, confident and self assured. You'll do it magnificently - I've no doubt xxx

Maybe you could show him this thread? Usually works for me ;-)

[Lochie]

Yorkie - I think seeing your GP is a good idea. A good GP will listen to you properly and tell you the best way forward. I don't think you sound like you have PND- what you say would stress me out big time! Like you I am a perfectionist and put real demands on myself and would consider myself pretty highly strung too. The other day my boyfriend was looking after our little boy and he asked me to hold him whilst he had a shower and declined given that I shower daily AND manage to put the baby somewhere safely whilst I do it!! I think snapping at your other half is very normal and just a symptom of the stress you feel from your conflicting demands....alot of the time I just feel like I could do things (parenting and housework) better myself and it really annoys me if a family member can't do it as well as I think I could (I just read that back and sound like a total pain in the arse!)

I was diagnosed with PND when my baby was 6 weeks old and I don't think it sounds like you have PND, although I do understand your feeling blue...however a chat with your doctor is always a good thing. I would describe PND as feeling like you are drowning and that none of the things that could usually cheer you up (glass of wine, fave telly programme, a hot bath) work anymore. I took anti depressants and had cognitive behavioural therapy which is amazing and to be honest has left me a much more chilled out person than ever before! I was on the anti depressants for 5 months and they were very easy to come off (I am off them now) if you do it slowly. However like I said your GP or HV will guide you on what you should do....I don't think anti depressants are as effective without therapy - so if you feel like you need it then really push for it with your GP.

Never let it go unsaid what an amazing job you sound like you are doing - dedicated enough to still be feeding in the night and working all day, perhaps there is an element of you just wanting your hubbie to give you a big hug and tell you how brill you are x

[Ann]

Yorkie, I agree wholeheartedly with all the above posts.

You don't have post natal depression, merely doing your best to cope with a very difficult situation. R&A's post about 'doing it all' rather than 'having it all', sums up the amount of pressure us mothers face in the present economic climate,in my opinion.

Having recently 'revised' GCSE history topics with my daughter such as Women's Suffrage and The Role of Women in the Second World War, it reminds me of how much our place in society has progressed in a relatively short space of time. Arguably our generation ( and I appreciate I'm older than you )has been the first to see the emergence of working mothers with 'house-husbands'.

Ask yourself Yorkie, would you or your partner's mother have anticipated your situation when they were young mothers?

I suspect not and that doesn't imply that they're not sympathetic to your situation.

So where are the rules?

There are none. This is a situation that's relatively unexplored or talked about. My husband is good at his job but would have been completely useless at full time child care. I never expected him to but I would hate to come home from work each day to find the house in a mess with the occupants expecting dinner on the table.

Not to criticize your other half but I think if we're honest most men don't multi-task that well and I'm fairly sure there are no established societies where men stay at home and run households effeciently. That's not to say that they can't but there's not much evidence to proove otherwise.

Yorkie, the fact that you've had the courage to post this says a lot about you. I'm not sure I could have done the same. It would probably be a good idea to see your GP but I doubt medication would be the answer.

I hope you've had at least two glasses of wine by now. For what it's worth your child will be the best thing that's ever happened to you; the demand versus rewards somewhat reverts as the years go by.

Best wishes

Ann

[Smiler]

:'(Sounds like a really hard time. As others have said, please don't beat yourself up.

Sleep deprivation is a killer and can really skew the way one thinks / feels about everything. So anything you can do to get more sleep might help a little bit.

Know is not PC, but perhaps it'd be worth considering stopping b-feeding at night, and splitting the nights between the two of you so that you can get at least 3 reasonable nights of sleep each week. And at weekends perhaps you could each have one lie in (oh for the days of weekly lie-ins together - unless you have any early bird friends or relatives willing to pick up the little'un at 7am and return after lunch!)?

Is your OH happy to be at home full-time? He might be fed up too. When I was at home full time I was really horrible to my OH (and still am sometimes - I now work part-time). I regarded working as a break / easy / freedom compared to childcare / domestics (and I was rubbish at the latter, didn't do much domestic stuff at all - no cleaning or cooking other than for the little one, just washing and shopping and errands). I couldn't have cared less what his working life was like, I just wanted him to pick up the workload as soon as he got home! Wasn't fair of me to be that way, but was really struggling, especially with the nights (I did all of them at that stage - bad bad plan!). Changing the balance a bit so that we were both working, and talking about practical stuff we could do (rather than how crap we were both being to each other) helped.

With respect to feeling isolated 'cos of working FT, friends / family who don't work FT might still be able to support you / listen / meet up at the times when you're not working - everyone is just muddling through the best they can.

Hope that things look up soon, you're not alone!

[KatsuQueen]

Yorkie, I have to agree with all of R&A's advice. Get your husband to do the 10:30 feed every night. Give up ironing. It's all wrinkly by the time you get off the train/tube anyway.

I am going back to work full-time in September and I am dreading it because I know it's going to be hard work. At the moment MrKatsu and I both do 4 days but for various reasons, it makes sense for me to go back full time. It helps that I have always been very "un-domestic" so feel no pressure to clean up etc. When people ask me - so, who does the housework? I can honestly say no one, we live in filth ahahaha.(OK mild exaggeration)

[hpsaucey]

Hell there Yorkie,

I'm going to go against SOME of the previous posts in saying that it isn't impossible that its PND. I found myself cracking after going back to work when my first baby was 9 months old. I can empathise totally with the anger you feel, the being stretched etc. A string of problems compounded problems and I finally realised that I had depression. You can get PND for much longer after birth that is widely known, although it is, of course, more commonly diagnosed/recognised in the early months. The other thing is that anxiety and depression are quite closely linked, with anger being a symptom of both.

With depression you can go out on the brightest, sunniest day, and you, to you, the world is enveloped in a smothering black fog - that's how it felt to me anyway.

I WOULD say go to your doctor and get checked - they can do a really simple test to assess you and its always good to have someone to talk to. I would also say, be kind, gentle and understanding with yourself as well as your partner. I think we often expect more than is humanly possible of ourselves! If you are overstretching - and many people above had good advice on that - this is the time at which depression, if it is going to, would be more likely to kick in seo best to get to the GP and just get checked out anyway.

I had CBT and cannot recommend it highly enough.

Good luck!!!!

H

[Belle]

yeah - what Lochie said, and also think HPsaucey has a point - why not see your GP just to have the chat. I do think that altho, as HP saucey has noted, PND can annoyingly strike late in the day, it doesn't sound so much like it (I had it) to me - but I'm most def not a doctor! but might be worth the chat with a medical professional just for peace of mind? As I think Lochie has made clear and I'm happy to reiterate, there is no shame in medication where needed for this kind of thing.

also think there is lots of gd advice above about trying to do less, organise a break etc. And for the record Ryedalema, i think you're a saint! I'm a stay at home mum, just starting to do a bit of freelance but mainly full time mumming, and only one kid at that, and i don't do HALF of what you do! but just goes to show - it's all about what our limits are etc and talking it over with OHs and agreeing what will work. Gd luck Yorkie - we're all supporting you.

[Pickle]

I also agree that you should see your GP, there are varying degrees of PND so it's worth getting assessed. It does sound like you're an amazing woman fitting so much into your life, and I understand how being a perfectionist will be putting extra pressure on you as I'm exactly the same.

I hope you get a chance to have a chat to your hubby and things start to look up. You've had some amazing support on this post which I hope has helped.

P xx