What is the current state of Dulwich Women's institute?

[elderflower]

You highlight the ignorance of being middle class. There are whole communities of working class people in shoreditch and islington and that is who makes up a significant percentile of those WI groups.

I've never lived somewhere where before where people hark on about being middle class as much as here. In central london you are either from there or you can afford to live there. Its not I'm middle class and I like the fact that I have a local WI because it supports and re asserts the view to myself that I live in a middle class area. Well done you.

The price of northcross market, MakeHQ charging people ?35 to make cupcakes (really? buy a recipe book) its all absurd.

There is so much that the WI have done over the decades that is worthwhile and beautiful. You don't want a relevant social organisation that helps poor people and binds a community together. You want and have a social pet, a badge of self serving middle class blindness.

Magpie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You've been called on the supposed relevance of

> your previous WIs, and obviously don't like it.

> You then resort to insults. I am proud to be

> middle class, it beats hypocritical chippy

> whinging about relevance, and proclaiming working

> class hero-hood, while living in bastions of white

> middle class London such as Islington, Shoreditch

> and East Dulwich.

>

> As has been pointed out, if the EDWI disgusts you

> so much, start a rival faction focusing on

> relevant bunting with class and style.

[DJKillaQueen]

Really? ?35 to make cup cakes? More money than sense, those that pay it.

And yes there are plenty of poor people in ED. There's a lot of council housing and I agree there is a sense from the forum (although I am generalising) that ED only covers those leafy residential streets that meander off Lordship Lane, and is far more middle-class than in reality it actually is.

[treehugger]

Elderflower what does this mean?

"I've never lived somewhere where before where people hark on about being middle class as much as here. In central london you are either from there or you can afford to live there. Its not I'm middle class and I like the fact that I have a local WI because it supports and re asserts the view to myself that I live in a middle class area. Well done you."

[annaj]

elderflower, the only person on this thread who seems to be harking on about being (or not being) middle class, is you.

I have a couple more questions, and these are genuine, I'm honestly interested in the idea of the WI as an innovative force for change. First, what's the purpose of knitting figures based on video games? What did it achieve and in what way was it any more innovative or relevant than knitting anything else? Second, you said your previous WI discussed teen knife crime, what, if anything, came of those discussions? How did your previous WIs engage with the local youth community? And what did they do about knife crime?

[pearl1]

Yep.

Second that.

The first mention of class was from Elderflower. Like it or not, the WI isa middle class institution. As said previously, I come from a working class background (Kingsmead Estate, Hackney) and there was no WI where I grew up, nor mention or suggestion of it. The WI is fine! Great even! but stop wittering on about it in terms of class structure and trying to make out that only in East Dulwich is the WI middle class...

[pebbles]

I don't want to get involved in this "debate" however I do want comment about Elderflowers comments about MakeHQ. I did a sewing course with them before the summer and I have just signed up for another one of them. This is my choice. I don't mind paying as I believe it is totally worth the money they are asking. They have bought about a passion that I didn't have before and what they are offering to people (who are interested in it) is great - I can't rave about them more.

[Claire35]

Good lord....if women are this bitchy, I am beginning to think I have no intention of joining a club consisting entirely of women.

I thought it was all about getting together and having some fun. And the point of any club is that it is democratic. If you join, you can choose to get involved in organising events that you find of relevance or interest.

I'm sure the current members, democratically liked the idea of making bunting. What's the problem?

Phew, can I still come next month? :-)

[Magpie]

Elderflower - you turned this into a discussion around class not me. Most people never think about class, apart from the chippy (middle class who think they are working class) or the self hating (the middle class who are ashamed to be middle class).

It seems your main issue with the EDWI is that it doesn't appear to be a "relevant social organisation that helps poor people and binds a community together". One interpretation of this sentiment is that you believe the WI should be a means of social improvement, whereby the uneducated can learn useful skills etc This is essentially old fashioned middle class paternalism (or maternalism) and is the basis for the foundation of the WI - ie educated women running classes for the uneducated poor.

You also seem to believe that any activity is pointless unless it has some worthwhile objective (eg helping the poor, allowing you to repair clothes etc).

I don't know whether this attitude is common amongst women, but its not something that men tend to have a problem with. Whether its a sports club or pigeon fancying few men are are introspective about the worthyness of the activity - its done for pure enjoyment. Enjoyment is what elevates people's lives, not focus on our often painful and frustrating existances.

I am not a member of the EDWI, perhaps it does focus more on frivolity than good causes, but so what - if it uplifts the lives of the women who are members, then that should be enough.

Finally, if you still think its a waste of time - then fine, but its not really any of your business what people get up to.

[snowboarder]

Claire35 - do come - first wed in September - talk from Dulwich Picture Gallery. Nothing too frivolous about that?

I believe if members have a good idea for an event and can actually help with the organisation they are only too welcome to propose it, and in addition there is a yearly 'ideas' session as part of one of the meetings. There don't seem to be many members actually posting on the thread - so I would just like to add some balance and say I do see the monthly meets as primarily a social event where I either get tasters of things I would never normally do (lack of time/inclination etc.) or listen to some great talks (on anything from womens health to gardening). And I've always had a fun evening and met some lovely people. Sorry if this seems hopelessly unadventurous to some....

[Claire35]

Thanks snowboarder.

TBH, I am part of a generation of women (or maybe it is just me) that did many thing their "working class" mothers and grandmothers never did...went to university, work in City, worked abroad, bought my own flat etc etc...and you know what? I would kill for something "pointless and frivolous" like bunting making...and whatever else the group decide they want to do with their time, more serious activities (knife crime etc) included..

[Belle]

Elderflower - you really seem to hate this area, which is a shame if you have recently moved here. I personally love living here.

This thread has made me think I must finally get round to going to an EDWI meet, as they sound great.

[sofaRunner]

I stumbled across this thread & can't believe how accusatory elderflower is in her views on both the EDWI & ED itself.

Please elderflower, if you don't like it here go back north of the river.

elderflower Wrote:

> I find east dulwich laughable in there are several

> threads where you make a judgement and end it with

> telling people not to do the same. You defend your

> middle class status and go as far as to assume

> that everyone cares and that we must all live by

> the benchmark. I'm not any less a woman because I

> don't consider myself a middle class person so I

> don't see that an organisation that is suppose to

> be representative of women in a community has to

> be taken up as a relics club for the limited

> appeal of pointless activities for pointless

> people.

>

[elderflower]

isn't that a little bit too "go back to where you came from". Its not local dulwich for dulwich locals love, its an area in the middle of london. I expressed a view, I think summoning the lynch mob over a discussion about the WI (and class apparently) is bordering on hysterical. Have a cup of tea and look up some crochet stitches on youtube.

I'll be staying in dulwich thanks x

[peterstorm1985]

elderflower Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Have a cup

> of tea and look up some crochet stitches on

> youtube.

>

And that, my dears, is what an old fashioned WI member would do.

[waynetta]

I'm currently in Greece but would like to come along to first meeting in sep. Always been curious about the WI. Does this mean I'm finally accepting the onset of middle age? :(

[DJKillaQueen]

I think to be fair, all that is being said is that elderflower feels that ED WI is too narrow in the women it appeals to in ED and the range of activiites on offer reflect that narrow appeal, when ED is far more diverse than that.

[jollybaby]

Along with ignorant generalisations about the ignorance of the middle classes!

[DJKillaQueen]

Depends on whether one is middle class or not. And I kind of know what she is talking about. There is a type of middle class culture that is 'twee'. That's not a criticism, just an observation. I would liken those type of women to 'The Stepford Wives' for example. I know I am going to get an onslaught for that comment (and I know it's a gross generalisation), but steroetypes, which is what we are essentially talking about, do exist.

[tropica]

I've just seen this thread again after having been away and I'm quite shocked by the direction it has taken. It is true that the members are mostly, but most certainly not all, middle class. Some of them are - shock horror - working class. Of course, it all depends upon how you define each class, and I'm not sure how you do that today. I don't ever remember meeting anyone of the Stepford Wife variety, although I know that the advertised evenings may suggest that. I don't tend to go to the most 'crafty' of sessions but even when I have, a lot of members take part with their tongue firmly in their cheek - it's more of a group activity to stimulate easy discussion with people you haven't met before. I'm sad to say that I missed the bunting......

[elderflower]

Er, I do find the middle classes to be quite ignorant of things outside middle class culture depending on how married to your class you are. I tried to cleanse myself of the class system as I am one person looking to relate to others.

I find the class system increasingly difficult to apply to people because I believe society is outgrowing it. Some people like to live up to a stereotype and that is what has limited appeal.

People are enjoying the east dulwich WI and good for them. My point is that whilst enjoyment is a good base aim it wasn't suppose to be its sole purpose and binding a community is something that modern life needs and I think wants.

DJKillaqueen as ever gets it all perfectly and understands my point.

jollybaby Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Along with ignorant generalisations about the

> ignorance of the middle classes!.........................boo hoo hoo. Oh my, no one is moaning about the twit who said the working classes were all about knife crime. I've got little problem with treating a social group how it likes to treats others thanks

[toast]

Elderflower wrote

"Er, I do find the middle classes to be quite ignorant", "cleans myself of the class system".

To quote Elderflower

"isn't that a little bit too "go back to where you came from"."

I would love to know how to make good bunting, I did try it and my bunting was rubbish.

[katie1997]

OMFG I cannot believe this thread. Hate all this 'class' prejudice. Fair enough if you don't like what the WI does here then feel free to start your own group.

I consider myself to be 'working class' because I have to work*

The truth is, I'd be blissfully happy if I could spend the rest of my life baking, making jam and learning how to decorate cupcakes. As long as I didn't have to do any ghastly sewing, ugh. I could even be tempted by learning how to make bunting....

*well I don't really but it gives me a sense of achievement.