Football Focus

[mockney piers]

I'm going to have to weigh in on Jah's side there. I realise it would be naive of me to want the return of local boys playing for their teams, but it's the spirit of sport.

A bunch of mercenaries who will be happy enough to kiss a chelsea or a barca badge if they manage to up their contracts an extra 10k a week to whatever stratospheric levels, is simply not in the spirit of the game.

Try telling me that Henry's heart is really at arsenal, go on just try.

I've prided in supporting west ham, not even through the lean times, but especially through them; and I find recent developments rather depressing.

The 1966 team you mention was filled full of local west ham boys who were given a chance to play, which just often doesn't happen in many teams up and down the country at that level any more. As for we've been at best mediocre, the generation around the 1990 world cup can hardly be called that.

Shilton, Pearce, Butcher, Robson, Waddle, Beardsley, Lineker, Barnes, Platt, Gazza, even your very own David Seaman

[atila the gooner]

I haven't and wouldn't say Henry's heart was/is at the Arse. It;s not the point. He was better than any English striker on offer. End of story. Or do you advocate taking on the likes of Heskey as a replacment, just because he is English?? I rest my case. Football is about opinions, I have mine and will not be swayed. We are to blame for having average players, not foreign coaches, players , managers etc. The sooner we wake up and realise that, we might get to where you and Jah want to be. Don't get me wrong I'm all for having good English players in the prem, but we just haven't got many at the moment. If fact we've got very few. That's all down to coaching at grass roots. Period.

[mockney piers]

Indeed, and I can see where you're coming from, but I just can't get passionate about a bunch of mercenaries.

I'd much rather win an FA Cup with a team of players who've come up from the academy, than win the premiership with a bunch of mercenaries. When it was clear the likes of Reo-Coker felt too big for the club, I don't want them there any more either.

I can't help, it's how I engage on an emotional level with the game.

[atila the gooner]

Mockney, the mercenary thing does piss me off also, but there are foriegn players that do have a love for the club they have played for, Bergkamp is a good example. There those that have a disgraceful attitude to the game, but they are not all foreign mercenaries. Fat Frank Lampard is a case in point as is Cashley Hole. People like that make my blood boil, and they are English. Does that make them more despicable and worthy of our loathing than the foreigners? I would say so.

[SimonM]

>>....smug Gooners....<<

Oxymoron of the week? :))

[SimonM]

>>The England team since 1966 has been at best average on the international/world scene.<<

Only a minor quibble, but the England team that went to Mexico in 1970 was superior to the 1966 one which, lete's not forget, did not have to pre-qualify and played all 6 of its games at Wembley in a 16 team tournament..

[mockney piers]

Isn't it a tautology? ;)

Yeah AtG, there are exceptions to every rule, and Bergkamp is definitely one (I'll always have a soft spot for Di Canio though as he finally settled, as much as he is ever able, with us).

Funnily enough Frank was incredibly loyal to us when the fans gave him, I always thought very unreasonably, a really hard time of it. I don't blame him for leaving either, the circumstances as they were. But all that said, he's an ego the size of a planet these days.

[atila the gooner]

Does anyone think England has a chance of qualifying for next years Euro's? I can't see it, because it's not in our hands.But.................

[Jah Lush]

Fat chance. But then again, it ain't over until the Fat Lady sings.

[mockney piers]

what he said.

Luckily I still have Spain.

Hmmm, underachievers less than the sum of their parts....why does that sound so familiar?!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Atila beat me to it here - but

Mercenaries is mercenaries, regardless of where they come from. The British bulldog spirit, or whatever it is people feel is lacking in the modern game is not going to be supplied by the current crop of English players

People berate Wenger et al for lack of English players (not least by English players who couldn't make it at Arsenal.... wonder why) but he has taken many punts on homegrown players in the past and all he usually gets is attitude and ill-discipline (Pennant, Bentley to a lesser extent), money grabbing eejits(The obvious) or just mediocrity (Jeffers, Wright, Upson)

One of the things I have said about Arsenal, and with which I agree even if it does make me sound smug, is that their players are good off the field as well as on. If I have to have a pint with, or listen to someone about the game, or talk about world politics I will pick Fabregas, Henry, Senderos et al any day of the week

The British contingent, even the best of them such as Lampard, Terry and Rooney I wouldn't cross the street to help... Lampard won't sign a new deal with Chelsea because he wants parity when he is on 100k+ a week?? He's the mercenary, not the foreign players

[Ladygooner]

Best football quote of the week!

"You can compare us at the moment to a bit of soft porn - there is an awful lot of foreplay and not a lot going on in the box."

Rochdale manager Keith Hill reflects on their 2-1 home defeat by Stockport

[citizenED]

Like others on here, I get a tad nostalgic about the "good old days" when the local lads played for the local team (and it still rings beautifully true when a liverpool player is interviewed on TV and he has a scouse accent) but then I wake up and realise that things have moved on. Football is international and that is that. I find it a very positive thing. Atila rightly says that "We in this country are still banging on about the physical side of the game, which has got us precisely nowhere in the international arena" This is entirely the point. I love the football that Arsene has got Arsenal playing because it proves that you can coach a team to win playing attractive stuff. If you've got several players who are creative, the opposition can't beat you by just targeting one player. If it means that the players are foreign for now, so be it.

having said that, Arsenal reserves are largly English and Arsenal have provided many English players that are doing well at other clubs - Sidwell and Bently to name two.

[citizenED]

Sean, I undertyped you - started my message at around half one and only just got round to posting it. In the meantime five new postings - I'm so ponderous!

[SeanMacGabhann]

s'awright - same thinghappened to me while I was typing mine ;-)

[Keef]

LOL to Ladygooner's quote! >:D<

Now, Atila, you are right that Henry was better than any English striker, but one could argue that if Wenger had taken the time to nurture an English player, he might have produced something special. Henry was hardly a prolific striker when Arsenal bought him!

Now, I'm a bit torn on this whole debate. I'd love to see more Home grown talent at the top of the game, but like to see it mixed in with some "foreign flare".

I would like to make a point to Atila though. You say things about the "authorities" putting in more money for grass routes, and the problem being "ours as a nation". From this I can only assume you mean the government should fund better facilities / coaching for kids, and that's fine. However, in the society we live in, I don't think it would make the smallest bit of difference. Once most kids are over 10, they don't want to play sports, they want to play consoles, and they want to pull girls, and they want to drink and sometimes smoke.

In Brazil they don't have massive football academies, the kids play on the streets and the beaches and they get good, because it's something for them to do for fun. The teenagers here have far more interesting things to do.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that's part of the problem.

[mockney piers]

true on the both the cross posters.

I'm lamenting something that seems to have gone from the game. I never specified mercenaries were foreign, I hate all of them.

I'm off to the Hamlets where no doubt the players will strop because they're not on ?100 a game, like what that new lad is ;-)

[SeanMacGabhann]

Something has gone from the game Mockers but something has come to the game as well - come on man look on teh positives

I'm not thrilled with the money sloshing around and teams run by The City but it is undeniable that the best teams play football unthinkable of not that long ago. Would I go back to George Graham's Arsenal of the 80's????

Sorry Keef - are you suggesting that Wenger doesn't nurture English players? What possible motivation would he have for that? Was Jeffers the new Henry if only Wenger had spent more time with him? It could be argued he is pushing Walcott a tad too soon because of the public demand to have English players in the team

Wenger would LOVE to have English talent in the team. He inherited the English back four and stuck with them for years - because they were good..

My thought is that most players from Ireland and UK are like boy band members. they can sing, some very well but it's the women and the fame they care about not the slog, the talent and eventually the art

[atila the gooner]

Keef, hear what you say about modern day distractions for kids over here, but i believe Europe has these also.

How come the kids over there seem to be less effected by them? It's like anything in life, you have to make an effort and spend money to get people interested. The girl thing is as old as the hills, the Playstation phenomenon is relatively new. I still think with the right approach we, as a nation, would a footballing great once again.

[Jah Lush]

In Brazil they do have a thing called futbal salo or something like that. Where the kids learn the rudiments of their skills with a smaller ball and on five-a-side pitches. This has been introduced over here but again there's funding and there's funding.

[Keef]

"Sorry Keef - are you suggesting that Wenger doesn't nurture English players? What possible motivation would he have for that? Was Jeffers the new Henry if only Wenger had spent more time with him? It could be argued he is pushing Walcott a tad too soon because of the public demand to have English players in the team"

Er no I wasn't suggesting that at all. I said "but one could argue that if Wenger had taken the time to nurture an English player, he might have produced something special. Henry was hardly a prolific striker when Arsenal bought him!"

Of course Arsenal have produced some great English players, just as Man U and Liverpool have. I just said that maybe he could have found his Henry over here... I actually believe that in Walcott he might have just that (Fear n' boozing used to force me to watch Southampton games when he was there... Still think he should have stayed there another season).

[mockney piers]

I can't deny that sean, but then we were playing great footy in the mid eighties.

I'm just saying I cannot muster genuine passion for the game when I can't feel any from the players, even if they're a nice bunch who you'd introduce to your granny.

West Ham is on a knife-edge at them moment. Some good youngsters, some through the academy even, some good english players like Ashton and a good ex posh player who's been through the mixer and now plays with his heart on his sleeve.

But then we have the Bowyers and the Bellamys and the Boa Mortes and Anton "I beat him up cos he looked at my ?65,000 watch at Ilford nightclub" Ferdinand.

We've had a couple of managers who placed an onus on trying to do things with English players where possible (of course you never knew what was coming with Harry), but a chairman who will almost certainly run out of patience with that approach.

I see us falling down the wrong side of that edge in the future and my heart just won't be in it any more.

I do enjoy watching Arsenal play (well, that Man U game wasn't exactly a humdinger, but still) but I know my heart wouldn't be in it if I was an Arsenal fan. My cousin, born and bred in chelsea won't even look at their games in a pub any more. West Ham can still do it for me, but I fear for the future.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I pretty much with all your sentiments Mockers but isn't the problem money and ownership, and nothing at all to do with foreign players?

[Keef]

Liverpool do it for me sometimes, because we know the secret... Buy Ugly ginger foreigners like Risse, and everyone will love him like one of ours! ;-)

Seriously, sometimes Liverpool show exactly that passion that is missing, and Stevie G drives them on, and that is what I love. All too often however they seem to forget passion, which is why they seem to drop points to those teams we "should beat", because those teams are scapping and showing passion.

Never thought I'd say it, but I'm quite enjoying watching Sunderland fighting this season... Hate Roy Keane, but never accused him of lacking passion!

[mockney piers]

Err...yes.

Sorry, I don't think I've been having a pop at foreigners per se. I was saying foreigners rarely have the same passion for a club, but as I've pointed out, home grown local talent can turn into a monster (and waste of space as far as I'm concerned) once he's got his first humvee.