Schonrock kids and unchaperoned "school run"

[CoD]

It is unconscionable that a child of eight is in loco parentis of a five year old under these circumstances. This is busy South London, not some bucolic 'Cider with Rosie' village scenario of the fifties. This abandonment of parental responsibility is woeful, and endemic among certain types of people.

What if someone reverses out of their drive, unable to spot a small child on a bike? Is it reasonable to expect an 8 year old to spot and prevent this? No.

Can the 8 year old protect her little brother if a dog attacks them? No. Can she stop a mugger from nicking their bikes? No. Only an adult can. An eight year old cannot keep a five year safe. And an eight year old should not herself be unsupervised in any event.

And a quick note to those who think that there is some kind of silly imaginary paedophile hysteria going on here.

There is not: There have been two incidents of attempted abduction of girls walking through Dulwich Village to school. One was about three years ago, one was three months ago. (The school sent letters to the parents after these incidents.) The first girl was eleven - I don't know how old the second was but she had the foresight to reverse in her tracks, and hid in a front garden (calling for help on her mobile) while the man in the van reversed and tried to follow her again. Paedophiles are rare, but they ARE out there. What a sensible, clever child - but I'm thinking she is probably older than five or eight.

How would an eight year old deal with that situation? I pray that we never have to find out.

Why don't the parents walk/cycle with their kids themselves? Why doesn't their nanny? The kids should be supervised - they are too little to be doing this.

[BB100]

Sue Wrote:

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> A terrible accident? Leaving a three year old

> alone night after night in an unlocked, dark and

> unfamiliar apartment with two younger children?

Not quite the same as allowing your school-aged children out in broad daylight in a very familiar place close to home, with lots of adults and children walking in the same direction........

[Narnia]

BB100 Wrote:

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> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > A terrible accident? Leaving a three year old

> > alone night after night in an unlocked, dark

> and

> > unfamiliar apartment with two younger children?

>

> Not quite the same as allowing your school-aged

> children out in broad daylight in a very familiar

> place close to home, with lots of adults and

> children walking in the same direction........

No it isn't but I liked to take responsibility for my child. Didn't you?

[dulwichmum]

Narnia Wrote:

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> DM, you may have missed the report on the Dulwich

> kids. Boris wasn't in it.

On London Tonight (ITV - sorry) they finished off the report with a big dollop of Boris.

[SeanMacGabhann]

most of the posts on this thread are the very reason I don't want to become a parent.

It appears that I will have to agree with most people posting on here or face prosecution. Lovely options

Anyone who wants to spend every minute of every day with their kids is free to do so - but it's not mandatory. Who the F*** are ye to judge other parents so (to the point of prosecution?? They aren't branding their children with pokers FFS)

DulwichMum - if the parents weren't middle class and were jumped on? You have heard of 2 wrongs not making a right?

And prosecuting the McCanns? That says everything about the judger and nothing about the McCanns. The rest of their lives isn't punishment enough? You thing prosecution is some kind of deterrent or punishment? "Well I WAS going to risk having my child abducted but f*** it when I heard there was a jail sentence involved I thought better of it"

Never have I felt more like walking away from this place

[dulwichmum]

SeanMacGabhann said:

"And prosecuting the McCanns? That says everything about the judger and nothing about the McCanns. The rest of their lives isn't punishment enough? You thing prosecution is some kind of deterrent or punishment? "Well I WAS going to risk having my child abducted but f*** it when I heard there was a jail sentence involved I thought better of it"

I love you SeanMacGabhann - don't leave.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Dammit woman - quoting my messages after I thought better of leaving it up!!

Fair play. But I still think you and most other posters on here are way off beam. I'm minded to think 8 and 5 are a leeeetle bit young but then again there are 8 year olds who are savvy and smart. If I knew the parents I might bring it up in conversation but the bile and condemnation on here and everywhere else is grim stuff

If more people did what these parents did then SE London might be a little. teeeny bit more like the utopian villages mentioned earlier on the thread. These parents aren't branding children with pokers, or not feeding them for weeks on end

if I was a gambling man I would bet a fair whack that these two kids don't end up as stay at home 30 somethings wondering where their tea is. The world needs more of this not less

[BB100]

CoD Wrote:

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>

> There is not: There have been two incidents of

> attempted abduction of girls walking through

> Dulwich Village to school. One was about three

> years ago, one was three months ago.

Increasing police presence and use of CCTV are some of the alternative ways of making everyone safer. Just keeping young children under supervision doesn't tackle the causes, or protect older children - or even adults.

Everytime my dad collects my kids from school different staff come out and ask him why he's waiting outside, or have called the police or parents report him to the school staff. He's just an old grandad that likes to turn up early and pace up and down but everyone is so hypervigilent and ready to scream pedo. No wonder that toddler drowned when she escaped from her nursery - a builder saw her walking down the street but was too frightened to help her in case he was accused of abducting her.

[dulwichmum]

Sean dear,

Say "Dammit woman" again, several times...(swoon)

[citizenED]

For those of you who are getting apoplectic over the Schonrocks decision, again try this. Set an age, 5, 8, or whatever, and then say that before that age kids must not be sent to school unchaperoned, but after that age they must travel to school unchaperoned. How would you feel if a bunch of other people were telling you that you must send your kids to school on their own?

The Schonrocks have evidently made a balanced decision that it is not only safe but also good for their kids to go to school on their own and they get these quite hurtful accusations of child neglect. I'd say let more people be brave enough to make a similar decision for their (slightly older) kids and perhaps we'd soon have all the evidence we need to say that it really is safe for kids to walk to school alone and/or accompanied by their peers and/or part way accompanied by the carers of other children.

[????]

It's not the 'going to school alone' bit that bothers me - although I wouldn't allow a 5 year old to do this ( and I used to walk my sister to school and back when I was 7 and she was 5).

It's a 5 year old on a bike, in London, with an 8 year old in charge. However mature a 5 year old is I can't believe they have great bicyicle skills or road sense. TV crews in Dulwich Village at school turning out time apparently.

[Narnia]

Who is arguing with this Sean? Certainly not me. As for bile, I haven't read anything that I'd classify as that.

[Loz]

dulwichmum Wrote:

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> He was saying that the parents should be

> celebrated... what an arse.

I don't think they should be celebrated. But they shouldn't be condemned either.

[Loz]

Increasing police presence and use of CCTV are some of the alternative ways of making everyone safer.

Oh please. CCTV does not make you safer. It might make you feel safer, but that is just perception.

[Saffron]

iaineasy Wrote:

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> I think allowing any child of primary school age

> to take themselves to school is hugely

> irresponsible.

>

> ------------------------------

>

> I couldn't disagree more, my dad left when I was

> 5, my mum worked two jobs to pay the mortgage and

> keep a roof over our heads losing the house and

> being homeless would have been irresponsible. My

> taking myself to school may not have been ideal

> but nothing ever happened to me.

>

> my point remains hurrah for the parents.

> hugsb

IainEasy, you send our DD to school alone when she is five, and it'll be your huevos on the radiator, DH! Five is too young to negotiate such a walk alone in London, and eight is too young to look after a five-year-old.

And just b/c you did it, or your parents did, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. (Your mother [and my mother] did a lot of things I won't do!!)

That being said, other people's children are generally not my business. So if these parents want to take their chances with their precious sprog, time will tell how long a lap they make in the gene pool.

[CoD]

Lol at Saffron! (Sorry Iaineasy, but I think she is absolutely right).

[Growlybear]

I've just seen the route the children use to get to school which was published in the Telegraph. If this is correct, then I don't see that there is any way the children could possibly get to school without crossing more than one road. Now that it appears that these little children cross the busy junction in the heart of Dulwich Village on their bicycles alone during rush hour, I am even more horrified by the thought.

[kristymac1]

Great, so the precise route that these little'uns take to school unaccompanied is now national news - doesn't that put the children at even more risk?

[dulwichmum]

The parents are about to be interviewed on the BBC News. Every morning I see the lollipop lady and she seems to only help kids to cross Turney Road.

[Fuschia]

kristymac1 Wrote:

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> Great, so the precise route that these little'uns

> take to school unaccompanied is now national news

> - doesn't that put the children at even more risk?

WEll I guess it's the parents who went to the press originally. I wonder what they thought they would gain?

[Fuschia]

A couple of years ago a friend of mine who lives on an estate in Ashford asked me for advice... she had noticed that one of her neighbours wasn't getting out of bed in the morning and her 6 year old was getting himself up and dressed, and walking to school alone. My friend (and other mums) were surreptitiously keeping an eye on him (there were no roads to cross at all, the walk was on a footpath, less than 1/3 of a mile)

My friend wondered if she should do anything... we both felt she would feel terrible if something happened.. in the end she spoke to support staff at the school.

Was thatb interfering?

[Growlybear]

I agree with DulwichMum - I've only ever seen the lollipop lady at the Turney Road part of the crossing.

Nick Ferrari is just starting to talk about this on LBC. Both of his children went to Alleyn's so he knows the area and presumably understands what the area is like better than most of the other radio and TV presenters who have debated this.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Fuschia

Are you comparing a couple who are making a rational decision with someone who can't get out of bed?

If a child is being neglected because of whatever is wrong with their parent(s) (drugs? depression? not sure from your decription of then Ashford case) then fair enough. That has nothing to do with this case

Everytime a parent puts their child into a seat of a car and drives somewhere, they are putting that child at risk. Should we prosecute everyone of them? Of course not

And did the parents go to the papers? Presumably that was after they had been informed of intention to prosecute in which case it's worth publicising

[david_carnell]

kristymac1 Wrote:

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> Great, so the precise route that these little'uns

> take to school unaccompanied is now national news

> - doesn't that put the children at even more risk?

Yes....yes it does. Do you know why? Because child abductors regularly scan national newspapers looking for clues as to the routes children take to school. It's pretty tricky for them to figure out otherwise. It's not like children have any identifying clothing that would associate them with a school or walk the same route every day or anything is it? Children these days have got pretty cunning. Often they disguise themselves as adults before burrowing tunnels to their school so as not be seen by predators lurking around every corner.

My god, the hysteria on here would make Chris Morris blush.

[James Barber]

Several people have posted that what really bothers them is a 5 year old cycling to school.

I've seen these kids cycling and the 5 year old has far superior cycling skills than my 8 year old.

Cycling should'nt be part of any issue here. The kids are good cyclists.

Equally these kids only have two more days this academic year to get themselves to school.