Schonrock kids and unchaperoned "school run"

[MissM]

iaineasy Wrote:

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> I think allowing any child of primary school age

> to take themselves to school is hugely

> irresponsible.

>

> ------------------------------

>

> I couldn't disagree more, my dad left when I was

> 5, my mum worked two jobs to pay the mortgage and

> keep a roof over our heads losing the house and

> being homeless would have been irresponsible. My

> taking myself to school may not have been ideal

> but nothing ever happened to me.

>

> my point remains hurrah for the parents.

> hugsb

The parents mentioned in the article aren't in this situation though

PS

Your mum sounds amazing!! You make sure she knows it!!

[Curmudgeon]

Growlybear Wrote:

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> Apart from the obvious risk

> of abduction

do you really see abductors and paedophiles round every corner, or do you think our perception of danger is skewed by the media coverage of some horrific, albeit rare, cases?

I found it a wrench to allow my 9 year old out without supervision a year or so ago but he needs to be able to do it because it's not suddenly joining secondary school that keeps you safe on the way to and from school but it's the gradual build-up of confidence and independence and dealing with the world unsupervised - my 6 year old will have less restrictions I think because its training us (parents) to keep our fears in check and realise that having children includes a responsibility to allow them to gain small amounts of independence so they are prepared for secondary and life beyond

[Santerme]

184 or 176 from the Elephant and Castle to DKH School from about the age of 8 on my own...plus walking from the now defunct or redesigned Dante Road under the underpasses to get to the bus and home again.

But 5 years old, on a bicycle in London today is a little too young.

In my humble opinion.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I agree with you about the cycling. I'm very anti bikes on pavements, if you are not old enough to negotiate traffic (and 8/5 is too young) then I think they should stick to walking. A mile is very doable on foot.

[candj]

It's not so much paedephiles lurking about, but traffic in general and my main concern is that these children are crossing the South Circular coming from W Dulwich. I get what the parents are trying to do but personally feel 5 and 8 are a bit young judging by the fact that my own 5 year old can hardly ride a bike.

[trinity]

I have seen these children on my way to school with my lot. They ride their bikes safely on the pavement and so traffic is not a consideration. They cross the road safely also with the older child looking after the younger.

Dulwich is one of the safest places I can think of for primary children to make their own way to school. If there was any incident or problem there would be hundreds of parents around to step in and help.

Well done to the parents.

[Growlybear]

Curmudgeon Wrote:

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> >

> do you really see abductors and paedophiles round

> every corner, or do you think our perception of

> danger is skewed by the media coverage of some

> horrific, albeit rare, cases?

>

No, I don't see them round every corner, but I DO acknowledge that they exist and would never stick my head in the sand and think that things like that don't happen round here or couldn't happen to my child. I don't see the need to send 5 and 8 year olds to school on their own, but I do see the need to take basic steps to keep children safe.

Like a number of other people, I cycled to school on my own when I was at primary school, but the world was very different then, and I didn't live in inner London. Whether or not there are more paedophiles now is something that is often debated, but it can't be disputed that there is far more traffic on the roads than when any of the members of this forum were five, and little children of this age can't be expected to have the attention span, concentration, or road sense to cycle a mile on their own.

[Growlybear]

trinity Wrote:

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>

> If there was any incident or problem there

> would be hundreds of parents around to step in and

> help.

>

>

If there WAS an incident and one of these little children lost concentration and, God forbid, got knocked down by a car when they were crossing the road, it wouldn't matter how many hundreds of parents were around to step in - it would be too late.

[citizenED]

Trinity said,

"Dulwich is one of the safest places I can think of for primary children to make their own way to school. If there was any incident or problem there would be hundreds of parents around to step in and help.

Well done to the parents."

Well said. I think this act should be celebrated and supported. The school should take a much more positive line. I think there is an issue regarding the cycling. If they were walking I would feel even more supportive.

[trinity]

So

traffic is not a problem as they cycle on the pavement,

abduction is not a problem as there are so many parents doing the school run

that leaves the problem of crossing the roads - which (according to the Daily Telegraph)so the family have minimised that risk by making sure they cross at a junction with a lollipop lady.

On the DT website Mrs Schonrock said that she believed the benefits to her children outweighed the risk. I agree with her.

[kristymac1]

Personally I think 8 and 5 is too young - I have nephews of that age and couldn't imagine tham paying enough attention or being responsible/mature enough to manage the journey on their own - I can accept that its probably a lot to do with the individual child/children but for me that would be too young. The article mentions that they are picked up by either a parent or the nanny - it's hard to imagine why one of them couldn't cycle with them in the morning as well?

[HonaloochieB]

There is no debate here in my view. A mile from home to school.

An 8 year old and a 5 year old on bikes in any situation, let alone an urban one is dopey.

The school seems to have taken a half-sensible, if slightly namby-pamby approach to the parents.

I'm guessing they're not working-class, benefit-scroungers, though, eh?

[woodie]

they are a fine family i know them and vouch for their care of their children. Im sure they would have done the journey many many times with the children making sure its safe before trusting them.

[Applespider]

I caught a school bus on my own from 5 onwards. I 'let' my mother accompany me for the first 2 days before telling her I could manage on my own. From 10, I caught a train 30 miles through to Edinburgh, caught a bus and then walked to school. Again, basic rules were drummed through my head, what to do in emergencies etc and it made me pretty self-sufficient.

If the parents are intelligent enough to have done a 'risk-assessment' which it sounds like they have, then this seems like an extreme reaction unless the head has already done the 'private conversation' route. It feels more like the head is worried about potential bad publicity if anything should go wrong rather than the well-being of the children.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with it until the youngest was a year or two older but I don't know the kids in question. In terms of cycling, West Dulwich is pretty nice to cycle around even on the roads and given these two are on pretty wide pavements (and I'd doubt going particularly fast), I wouldn't have said it was particularly risky - especially if any road crossings have lollipop/pelican crossings.

[HonaloochieB]

woodie Wrote:

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> they are a fine family i know them and vouch for

> their care of their children. Im sure they would

> have done the journey many many times with the

> children making sure its safe before trusting

> them.

Trusting the children is not the issue, it's the untrustworthy variables that might occur on their journey between home and school that might harm them.

[lilolil]

My children were far too precious to me to let them go to school by themselves. That doesn't mean to say that the Schonrock children aren't precious to their parents too.

In my opinion, taking and fetching your children to school is all part of being a parent. To share and care for them and protect them when necessary. To meet the parents of your childrens friends, and to know what is going on in the school community.

If the Schonrocks are happy with their arrangement then that is fine provoding the children are safe. For me I would be at my wits end with worry!

[HonaloochieB]

lilolil Wrote:

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> My children were far too precious to me to let

> them go to school by themselves. That doesn't mean

> to say that the Schonrock children aren't precious

> to their parents too.

> In my opinion, taking and fetching your children

> to school is all part of being a parent. To share

> and care for them and protect them when necessary.

> To meet the parents of your childrens friends, and

> to know what is going on in the school community.

> If the Schonrocks are happy with their arrangement

> then that is fine provoding the children are safe.

> For me I would be at my wits end with worry!

So LiloLil, you are saying these people are wrong to be doing what they're doing.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I would never ever let a five and eight years old make their own way to school. I do not think a 5 and 8 years old have the mental capacity to deal with potential dangerous situations. You get some very grown up children with common sense but most children of that age are still very young and will not really react quickly in some situations.

It is all very well people saying 'When I was younger..' lots of things happened in our lives when we were younger, even today etc but it does not make it right or safe.

They are too young. I am honestly quite astounded to see young children travelling by themselves on buses/bikes or walking. As an adult I have encountered dangerous situations just by walking around in Dulwich, my mother by cycling, and I would not want a child having to deal with that.

I think the school was heavy handed but I don't think they should be travelling at that age alone to school.

[lilolil]

HonaloochieB.

I have reread my post and I think I made it very clear that if the parents feel that it is safe then that is up to them. In my opinion it is not safe for small children to go to school by themselves.

At the end of the day it is their responsibility. I do hope these children remain safe .

[HonaloochieB]

lilolil Wrote:

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> HonaloochieB.

> I have reread my post and I think I made it very

> clear that if the parents feel that it is safe

> then that is up to them. In my opinion it is not

> safe for small children to go to school by

> themselves.

> At the end of the day it is their responsibility.

> I do hope these children remain safe .

I don't agree that it's their responsibilty, there's that African saying 'It takes a village to raise a child', we acknowledge that by having legislation and systems of social care to cater for parents who are irresposible/abusive/careless when it comes to the welfare of their children.

If a parent is behaving irresponsibly then they require a word at the very least.

[????]

I used to walk to school by myself from about 7 but that was 1970 ad there's no friggin way I'd let my 5 year old ride a bike unaccompanied in London....or anywhere for that matter. The abduction/peado thing is a red herring on this but doesn't stop a load of stoopid comments I see - a 5 year old cycling unaccompanied in London is fooking irresponsible.

[mumof3girlies]

I have an eight and 6 year old and would not let them travel to school alone, this is for a number of reasons, but mainly that I would not want to burden an eight year old with the responsibility of having to deal with any manner of incident that may arise on the journey. I think HeidiHi is right- they do not yet have the capacity to be able to judge when a situation is safe/less than safe. Regularly on the 7 minute journey to school I take with my children, there will be some sort of 'hiccup' I need to deal with such as a fall, dog s**t mishap etc. and if I was not there my 8 year old would have to sort it out - and she's way too young still, maybe I don't give her enough responsibility but I think she has a few more years to enjoy being young and carefree. On a technical note, working in child protection, I am aware that the guidelines from Southwark social services (and generally all S.S. departments) is that children under 9 should not walk to school/cross roads unaccompanied, and I would think certainly not in charge of a 5 year old sibling. So I would say that actually the headmaster is merely following protocol...

[Alex K]

@ mumofthreegirlies: Indeed it seems that the headmaster is only following protocol. My amazement followed from two aspects of the story. The first, that such a protocol is in place (it seems to see, in children walking to school, only risks and no benefits); the second, that other parents pressed him to intervene.

"Only risks and no benefits" may be hyperbole. However, my own family's private brand of dysfunction -- I think that to write of the normal, healthy family is oxymoronic -- strongly encouraged looking toward benefits and away from risks, and so my sympathies are with the Schonrocks.

I'm all in favour of "it takes a village" child-rearing. (When as a child I played where I shouldn't my mother or grandmother had heard about my misbehaviour from a neighbour well before I came home wet and muddy. Mrs Bates was particularly observant at tattling, as I considered her interventions then. It seemed to me bitterly hard that I never got away with anything.) If I saw a child ambling into traffic I hope that I should have presence of mind enough to pull her back forcibly and to deal calmly with accusations of "You laid hands on my daughter!" if they later arose. But for less emergent matters -- one must be very careful not to stray over the line between "helpful" and, with a tip of the hat to Mrs Bates, God rest her, "meddlesome".

[James Barber]

For accuracy. The reports state that these kids cycle to school unescorted but are collected and taken home. That they cross one busy road which has a lollipop person supervising it. That they cycle on pavements - which in Dulwich Village are generally wide.

Statistically kids driven around everywhere are less healthy and at more risk but its no knowhere near as emotive. Irony that if anything happened to them it's quite likely to be from a car on a school run whose driver may even have posted on this thread how irresponsible these other parents are.

[????]

"Statistically kids driven around everywhere are less healthy" - Common sense may suggest so but 'statistically'...have you the source James?