White Stuff

[spadetownboy]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Sean, I agree. But i'd still rather see Walsh

> Glaziers in business than a fancy clothing shop.

> Call me sentimental! :)

thats only cause you could check yourself out in the mirrors.

[Louisa]

I have more than enough mirrors at home to check myself out in ;-)

[spadetownboy]

Louisa Wrote:

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> I have more than enough mirrors at home to check

> myself out in ;-)

you can never have enough mirrors, but back on topic white stuff nothing out of the ordinary with it must say though its a bit on the dear side ,you can buy far nicer designer stuff from debenhams for the same price and in most cases less.

[Louisa]

I agree, I often go to Debenhams in Bromley and the quality of clothing is far superior to that of White Stuff in my opinion. Then again, I wouldnt say no to buying a few woolies from WS in the future.

[Marmora Man]

Louisa Wrote:

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> I agree, I often go to Debenhams in Bromley and

> the quality of clothing is far superior to that of

> White Stuff in my opinion. Then again, I wouldnt

> say no to buying a few woolies from WS in the

> future.

Louisa - shop in a chain store!!?? What happened to your anti globalisation stance?

[Michael Palaeologus]

Ha ha ha ha!! Bloody Debenhams!

Marvellous.

[Louisa]

I have nothing against chain stores - and whats wrong with Debenhams may I ask? They sell some good quality clothing!

[Huguenot]

Perhaps negative reactions to White Stuff seem to be inconsistent with the other stated views of the critics because we haven't yet hit the nail on the head?

I reckon a lot of the dislike stems not from the store, the clothing, the success or the owners, but simply a perception of the kind of people who shop there.

White Stuff kinda reminds us of young wealthy people who take two ski holidays a year.

From their own point of view, despite reaching their late twenties and early thirties these customers still dress like students because they like to perceive themselves as young, fun and active.

Their clobber reminds them that despite their age and responsibilities they can still have an open mind, and still be happy and carefree from time to time. They swap jobs at will, move home to experience new things, recognise their own value, and earn well by generating wealth for others...

For outsiders looking in these guys look irresponsible and spoilt. Their unwillingness to succumb to the depression of the daily grind is seen as arrogant stupity. Their quest for new experiences and new environments is perceived as putting two fingers up at those people for whom the local community is the foundation of their life. Their apparent wealth is twisted through the lens of envy to a mental handicap... "they have more money than sense".

Worse, their apparent 'quick victories' implicitly question the strategies of those who have invested a lifetime of toil and hardship (and scrabbling to make ends meet) only to emerge at the end in a changed world, and to find the life they worked for - sing-songs around the ol' joanna in a quiet retirement - no longer exists. It feels 'stolen' from them by 'the others'.

Hence when these young wealthy types have a bit of fun with their marketing, it's seen as rubbing the noses of the 'outsiders' in the dirt - even when it's not intended.

So is it really White Stuff that's resented, or the lifestyle and freedom they represent?

[Alan Dale]

I'm not sure you can preach about the lifestyle, freedom and wealth generating powers of rich kids without any mention of privilege, nepotism and inheritance.

That is where the resentment stems from. It's not purely envy.

How come nobody ever praises the alcoholics in the park for 'Their unwillingness to succumb to the depression of the daily grind'?

[Louisa]

Huguenot I think you may well have hit the nail on the head to some extent here.

The 'type' of person who I often refer to in this so called 'class' related clash we have in ED is more than just a perception. What strikes me most is the way in which a relatively average typical south-east London suburb can be so easily transformed into something 'vibrant' and 'fresh overnight', when other areas struggle for years to get rid of a tarnished reputation. The 'newcomers' manage to not only give the perception of change and upward mobility in an area like ED, but they also manage to somehow isolate and remove the long standing community by attracting new businesses (eg White stuff), often with the opinion that stores they dont use should be replaced by something better.

I have read many posts about how great it is to have White Stuff replacing Walsh Glaziers along LL, and although I doubt there is anything malicious in it, I have a feeling they do not really see how something so small can further isolate people who have lived here for generations. We all know White Stuff is located in other gentrified areas of London (eg Notting Hill, Islington, Battersea), so trying to suggest they are ethical and it's better to see them than a shop noobody uses isnt really helping people like myself warm to them.

I will mix with anyone and everyone, I do not use class as a measure of an individual's personality. What I do see, is a whole 'group', if you like, of people who earn a certain amount of money, choose a certain 'lifestyle', only use certain shops and bars, tend to speak a certain way (not refering just to accents here) and often are at least perceived to look down their nose at people who have perhaps lived in ED longer. I remember seeing this happen when I was working in Islington back in the 1980s and it worried me then, never would I have thought they could transform ED in roughly a decade. I cant imagine the working class community transfotming Chelsea overnight can you? Economics speak rather loudly, and sadly they can destroy cultural and social traditions.

The many chain stores I visit is testimony to the fact I am quite happy to shop on a High Street, so my issue with White Stuff isnt anything other than the fact they cherry pick gentrified areas to sell their clobber, and use some appauling marketing skills to try and make them appear local and in touch with the people.

[Alan Dale]

So what are you asking for Louisa?

Is seems like you accept that gentrification is inevitable and you just wish people would be a bit more tactful about it.

Is that it? If so then I think you should be a bit more thick skinned and not let it bother you.

Concentrate on tackling issues that are within your control.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Alan - you mention "privilege, nepotism and inheritance." - is it not possible for people in their 30s to have a hard-working background but whose money comes from not having kids, or maintaining a car but prefer to spend their money on clothes that aren't made in sweatshops somewhere?

Why resent that sort of person, or assume they are privileged?

(not that I am a fan of privilege you understand - just pointing out it shouldn't be assumed)

[JoeChuff]

what's wrong with being privileged?

[*Bob*]

What's the problem with nepotism, privilege and inheritance?

Is everybody here planning on not lifting a finger to help their children get-on in life? Or leaving all their death-cash to the Battersea Dogs Home?

What's the difference (in principal) between my Grandad leaving me ?100 in his will 20 years ago and me leaving my child a house worth a million or two, apart from a number of noughts?

[Alan Dale]

The people you describe are different people to the 2 skiing holiday crowd who and are 'unwilling to succumb the depression of the daily grind'.

The people Huguenot describes are the posh crowd who sail and ski and have the safety net of a network of influential friends and deep family coffers.

And whilst I think that resentment towards these people is futile and self destructive I can understand why others may resent them and I think it is more than just jealousy. It is resentment of inequality of opportunity.

[Alan Dale]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> What's the problem with nepotism, privilege and

> inheritance?

It causes resentment.

[MadWorld74]

is this thread still about the WS? ....

[Louisa]

From the people I talk to, the resentment isnt about jealousy or wealth - it's about forcing social change onto an established community via the forces of economics. We have no choice in the matter, if these people choose ED as a cheaper alternative to Clapham or Putney, then they can move here on mass and fuel the fire for a growth in businesses/services aimed solely at them.

[Louisa]

And yes this is still on topic because the White Stuff is a good example of one of these businesses...

[Alan Dale]

Louisa, you say it's not about wealth but then you say 'they can move here on mass and fuel the fire for a growth in businesses/services aimed solely at them.'

Surely that is a good definition of what it means to be wealthy.

[*Bob*]

Louisa Wrote:

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> From the people I talk to, the resentment isnt

> about jealousy or wealth

That's utter cobblers. It's entirely about jealousy and wealth.

[Louisa]

Yes but the resentment isnt aimed at the individual wealth of a person and the fact that they have it and others do not. It is the way the wealth is used to 'regenerate' or change an existing community to suit the needs of a new one. I do not want the wealth or want to see it changing my ED.

[Louisa]

The aim of the new set isnt to embrace what is already here and live alongside it, these people wont be happy until every shop along LL is transformed into something to suit them.

[*Bob*]

That's cobblers as well.

People just don't like openly admitting that they're jealous of other people's wealth. But they usually are.

[Louisa]

*Bob* i'm not hard up by any stretch of the imagination, so I have absolutely no reason to be jealous or resentful of their wealth at all.