Green & Blue wins award (almost)

[all_star]

Runner-Up for the Best Wine Bar in Time Out London....

Full story on the SE5 Forum.

[batdog]

Time Out is certainly a good publication to check what's going on in London on a weekly basis BUT be strongly aware of their food & beverage critics.

Green & Blue is "allright" but NOTHING special and a bit expensive for what they offer.

[Guest]

Mrs Rob and I went to Green and Blue once one Sunday afternoon. We are their target market down to a tee - spending sizeable wedge in William Rose, Franklins, EDD etcetc. French chap in their couldn't have been less interested in us or our questions and I have never, ever gone back. Nor would I. It's all about Nicolas and Majestic for us.

[QZ]

I am with Mr & Mrs Rob on this...went there when they opened to ask about a suitable red to have with thai / malasian food to which they were rather indignant (i.e. you just dont drink red wine with it)..Nicolas works every time!

[all_star]

Funny to read other people's experiences - my wife and I have only been in once, when we sat down in the bar area we were made to feel very uncomfortable by the single member of staff who eyed us from behind a counter. After 5 minutes of confusion about how/what we could order (there were no menus/wine lists on the table), we upped and left. And have, like QZ and Rob, never gone back.

[James]

I don't see the point of this place. Why anyone would want to have a drink in a dingy little room behind a spartan looking wine shop (whilst being stared at by snooty staff) is beyond me.

[greynolds]

To be fair, I've gone in as a pretty clueless wine buyer and they always been very helpful in suggesting suitable wines. I got chatting to the guy working there and apparently they've bought the building next door(currently with scaffolding obscuring it) so in February the two shops will be combined to make a much larger bar area. Should hopefully make a difference to the general feel of the place.

It is at least a privately run business so despite the odd aloof member of staff I say stick with it. I love East Dulwich having truely unique stores/bars!

[CrystalClear]

I know nothing about wine (well, I know I like it, but that's about it). I've always found them friendly, and I've enjoyed the back bar bit, but it is very pretentious (so very ED I guess). They've bought the shop next door and are planning to expand (or so they say).

[Keef]

Waste of space!

[nutty]

Have to be honest - it's my favourite wine shop in ED. Did a wine tasting there that was fantastic, and like the intimacy of the bar at the back - never had any issues with staff... Apparently the extension will include a small deli.

[Ant]

I've always found them friendly and helpful. Mind you, I've only ever used it in offy mode - never been to the bar bit.

[Guest]

Keef's right.

Been in once.. didn't go back. It's exactly the sort-of place that gives wine bars / shops a bad name.. sterile, uppity and no fun at all. Unlike wine - especially if you drink a lot of it.

[mockney piers]

I think it's a bit sad that this place seems to have made so many enemies.

The guy that runs it is genuinely friendly and chatty and has given me great advice in the past. I have to say of the french chap and the elfin girl that work there, I was under the impression that they couldn't speak, rather than they were snooty. And yes the minimalist shelving is a bit rubbish, but when you're starting up a business yourselves and paying the sort of rent that they are, then decking out in tasteful wood a la oddbins is probably beyond your means. Lets hope they address that at some point.

But the product is excellent, and really is worth a second look. Perhaps someone (me?) should just let them know what they feel about the perceived innaccessibilty/snootiness of the place, as once you try their ?5 argentinian Grano, or their Leapfrogmilch, you'll definitely want more :)

[Guest]

I don't think it's actually the staff (I wouldn't know as there was barely any communication) - I think it's just the 'space' inside. You know how sometimes places just don't feel like you want to spend any time in them. It gives it a bit of an atmosphere which is off-putting, hence not much custom, hence uncomfortable staff = vicious circle.

So it will be interesting to see what it's like when it's expanded. Here's hoping for comfy old seats and a fireplace.

If it's minimalist chic and a Hed Kandi CD playing it'll be a thumbs down from me!

[greynolds]

Mockney Piers, why don't you print this whole discusion off and hand it in (to the owner!). Seems only fair to give a local shop owner some constructive criticism. Plus, he may well read my glowing comments and offer me a discount!

[Guest]

Dear East Dulwich Forum Members

I don't know whether or not this message will be considered spam and I apologise if it is, but as the owner of Green & Blue, I think I probably have a right to answer back to some of the points made on this site.

I am going to address the issue of pretentiousness first. If these comments are based on how we look, well that is a combination of having very little money and also wanting a space that was light and airy and not full of wood - the classic wine shop material. It was supposed to be especially female friendly in this regard and we have had many of our female customers commenting positively on exactly that - how light and airy it is. If that is perceived by some as pretension, then I suppose it just has to be chalked up as not pleasing all of the people all of the time.

If this comment is based on our prices, I'm afraid I am rather unapologetic. Our wines start at ?5.30 and none of them are mass-produced, factory farmed products. This is what we care about absolutely passionately - we simply don't sell 'factory' manufactered stuff. It constantly amazes me that people seem to have no trouble understanding why it is that a small handmade chocolate truffle costs anything from ?1.50 upwards and yet you can walk into a newsagent and buy a Mars bar for under 50p. It is no different with wine. If you don't mind drinking a very mass produced product, then you can pick up 3 bottles for ?10 incredibly easily. If you want something that has been carefully produced, with minimal damage to the enviroment (and consequently to yourself), you are going to pay a bit more.

We have had meetings with our staff on the basis of these posts and sincerely hope that no-one is made to feel unwelcome ever again. That is the direct opposite effect we strive for. Please note though that we have never employed a French person. We do have an enormous amount of information on the wines on the shelves and often we do just let people browse by themselves, as that is what they seem to want to do. This is not us being snooty or up ourselves, it is trying very hard not to make our customers feel pressured.

We are indeed expanding and are going to spend more money on the bar, which will be bigger. The minimalist chic was again down to budget -raising money initially was amazingly difficult (it still is) and everything we have pretty much is now in this business. In the beginning, it was a case of either opening a minimalist bar or not opening anything at all.

We care very, very much about being an accessible, friendly local business. This is what the world needs more than ever now - some alternative to big, impersonal places. If we have failed in some regards, we apologise. We won't stop trying though. If there is a group of 5 - 15 of you from this site who would like a chance to change your opinion, we will organise a tasting of some of our less expensive, but we feel, very good wines, for you, free of charge.

You can contact me at katethal@aol.com or you can call my mobile on 07740 705079 if you want to take me up on this offer. If not, then I sincerely hope that at at least some of your will reconsider your opinion and give us another try.

best wishes,

Kate

[Keef]

Can't say fairer than that! ;-)

[batdog]

Dear Kate,

It is a good thing that you came on this forum trying to explain the reasons of your business and I admire it. Many owners will do that under a nick name saying how good is their place.

However being a male and also loving females, what EXACTLY do you mean by "female friendly" place ? It sounds to me like a sexual discrimination towards males, but I might be wrong ?

Thank you :)

[Guest]

'Female friendly' sounds like sexual discrimination against males? The decoration is plain and unobtrusive. It's not as if there are pictures of kittens and babies on the walls. Come on..everyone knows that where women go, men will follow. (Heterosexual men, of course). That's the whole ethos behind the All Bar One chain (characterless as they may be). Big windows, poncey food, lots of white wine options.

I've bought wine from Green and Blue. Always felt the staff were friendly when I've asked for help. I know very little about wine and they don't make me feel like an idiot for this. I thought this business was the very embodiment of small, local businesses trying to fight it out in a world of large corporations. Give them another go and support a local business!

[mockney piers]

Here here (or is it hear?, here hair hear, hear hair here) aaaaanyway. well said lou bou. Nothing stirs up this forum like the dread of some chain or other opening up, and when we have a genuine small business you're all quick to condemn and avoid.

Go back and try again, even if it's just for the bonkers breton cider at ?3 a litre :))

[Quaywe]

batdog, picking at someone's comments about making their business female friendly by trying to turn it into a sexist remark? Really...stop being so PC and get over yourself. There's a lot of prams in ED and I'm sure they find G&B to be an ideal shop. What's wrong with having a target market?

Kate, I applaud your appearance on the EDF so explain things. I must admit I have only once been in to G&B once and didn't like the format. Mainly that it looked a bit plain (with your explanation I now completely understand why), as I like the warm feel of a good wine shop. I also thought the wine bar and shop were the wrong way around. The wine bar helps you offer something that other wine shops don't have. I think that should be exploited more. I expect the expansion will change my views of the store.

I'm definitely going to give G&B another try.

[QZ]

Kate, thanks for the posting. Appreciate the time taken to respond and the offer of the tasting.

[Mark]

Nice one Kate. I like the fact Green & Blue doesn't smell of vomit like Threshers does

[all_star]

It might do after the free wine tasting! ::o

[greynolds]

Good on you Kate, great to see that you clearly care about your customers and the quality of the wines. Least we can all do now is support you and keep LL the unique place it is.